cancer and smoking

[UtahRootBeer]

So yesterday a good friend died after 4 months fighting lung cancer. He smoked at least a pack of camels everyday for the last 50 years. Its a hell of a thing watching another family member die from cigarette induced cancer.

What this is all leading to is what do you tell yourself, or others about smoking? I know the risks and we all know they are alot less than cigarettes, but none the less its still there. Does it ever cross your mind about quiting, or do you say fuck it we all gotta die someday? Thanks everyone for letting me vent and just say what had been in my head.

 

[problemsolverjc]

First, let me say that I am incredibly sorry for the loss of your friend, and will keep him, his family and friends in my thoughts and prayers. Cancer is a shitty thing, and just sucks. As you know, I have had a number of struggles with cancer in my family recently, and have concluded that it just sucks.

As for your really good set of questions... let me answer like this...

What do I tell myself? I have never smoked cigarettes, weed, or taken drugs. I drink in moderation, use sunscreen, don't tan, try to eat healthy (sometimes), and don't breath in a bunch of chemicals all day. So at the end of the day, if my one cancer causing risk is smoking 2 or 3 cigars a week, so be it. I understand the risks, don't do it around my kids or wife, and try to smoke in well ventilated places (or outside).

What I tell others? To mind their own f***ing business. I am often put in a situation where someone is lecturing me about cigar smoking (usually my mother). At the end of the day, the greatest thing about living in the United States of America is that we all have the right to form our own opinions, and operate within the laws set by the States. So much like I don't go climb cliff walls without safety harnesses (like my brother), it is there choice not to smoke cigars.

We all take risks from the time we get up in the morning. We get in machines (cars planes trains) to go to work that people die in every day. We live in areas with tornadoes, floods, fires, earthquakes, etc. As human beings we take risks every single day, some we can control, others we cannot. This is a risk that I willingly take, and understand the potential future consequences.

 

[mdwest]

Every report I have read on cigars and cancer will state that cigars CAN cause lung cancer.. but the assessment is pretty much that the probability of that is very low... and that exposure to the carcinogens in cigar smoke to the lungs is minimal since they are not inhaled..

the much more real risk is cancer in the oral cavity, larynx, and esophagus.. which all absolutely SUCK.. but are generally not life threatening like lung cancer can be..

there is some speculation that smoking cigars can lead to pancreatic cancer (which is without a doubt highly life threatening).. but no one to my knowledge has definitively made the link...


End sum is this....

is there risk involved in cigar smoking? yes.. there absolutely is....

we all take risks daily... I honestly probably take more risks than most... a smart man measures the risk vs. the reward and then either determines he wants to avoid the risk, mitigate the risk, or accept the risk... depending on the value of the reward...

Ill be running with the bulls in pamplona in a few months.... is that risky... yeah.. I guess so... is the reward worth it to me.... NO DOUBT... IT IS ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT... will I try to mitigate some of the risk...yes.. I will.. Im not going to position myself in one of the areas known for trouble/injury.. and my old, fat, ass will actually get out and do a little exercise prior to going...

life is about LIVING... Im not going to lock myself in a padded cell for the rest of my days and worry about dying and all the things I can do to avoid it.... I wont be stupid.. or throw my life away... Ill take steps when I can to offset some risk.. but... rarely do I intentionally avoid it (unless I assess that whatever activity we are talking about is a "throw away" type scenario)...

oh... by they way.... SCREW CANCER! Sorry you lost a friend dude... my heart goes out to you on that... prayers sent...

 

[Life in smoke]

First off, I am sorry to hear about your loss. I just had a good friend lose his Brother, smoking played a large role in his death, and it has made me think a lot about this subject. Cigars are enjoyable, as are many things we choose to do in life. Risks come with all of them, everything I do in life I accept the risks, between cigars and the occasional evil hookah. Just my views on the matter.

 

[Tag9485]

First, let me say that I am incredibly sorry for the loss of your friend, and will keep him, his family and friends in my thoughts and prayers. Cancer is a shitty thing, and just sucks. As you know, I have had a number of struggles with cancer in my family recently, and have concluded that it just sucks.

As for your really good set of questions... let me answer like this...

What do I tell myself? I have never smoked cigarettes, weed, or taken drugs. I drink in moderation, use sunscreen, don't tan, try to eat healthy (sometimes), and don't breath in a bunch of chemicals all day. So at the end of the day, if my one cancer causing risk is smoking 2 or 3 cigars a week, so be it. I understand the risks, don't do it around my kids or wife, and try to smoke in well ventilated places (or outside).

What I tell others? To mind their own f***ing business. I am often put in a situation where someone is lecturing me about cigar smoking (usually my mother). At the end of the day, the greatest thing about living in the United States of America is that we all have the right to form our own opinions, and operate within the laws set by the States. So much like I don't go climb cliff walls without safety harnesses (like my brother), it is there choice not to smoke cigars.

We all take risks from the time we get up in the morning. We get in machines (cars planes trains) to go to work that people die in every day. We live in areas with tornadoes, floods, fires, earthquakes, etc. As human beings we take risks every single day, some we can control, others we cannot. This is a risk that I willingly take, and understand the potential future consequences.

Well said Jim 👍

 

[jmartins]

Utah I'm so sorry for your loss brother. Most ppl here no I also have a long lives history of cancer in my family. Know that your friend is amongst good company up their as I've lost a lot of ppl close to me. You and your friends family will be in my thoughts and prayers brother.

As for your question there is a brother on this site with a signature that caught my eye and I have thought about it every time a question of this magnitude arises:

"Life's journey is not to arrive in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, "Shouting....Holy Shit....what a ride!"

I know that's a little crazy sounding but we all do risky things as you've seen from all the posts above so I'm not going to go into it again. Just think do what you enjoy and enjoy what you do, live without regrets.

 

[Web]

I am sorry for you loss and my heart goes out to you and your friend's family.

I agree with the earlier comments made by the other members and don't think I can say it any better. I do feel moderation is a key with cigars, like most things. Is there risk, yes we cannot kid ourselves. I also take comfort in the fact that I keep regular checkups, Dr, Dentist, etc. and when I tell them I smoke cigars, their response, "not a problem". I was expecting a lecture but each has told me that if I was smoking cigarettes they would encourage me to quit and they would have a different attitude, but none of medical professionals in my life even bat an eye when I mention my cigar smoking.

As for other people, I tell them to mind their own business. If you don't enjoy cigars, then don't go to the local cigar shop and start bitching. I also ride a motorcycle and it seems whenever people who don't ride find that you do, they have to tell you a story about how someone was horrifically killed on a bike! (Honestly, why?) If you don't like motorcycles, don't ride one, but don't impede my decision to do so.

I won't say life is completely about choices because we all know somone that was dealt a shitty hand and it wasn't because of the choice they made, but choices do play a major factor. The reward, relaxation, camaraderie, etc. I receive from smoking cigars to me is worth the risk so I endulge, but it's a choice each person has to make on their own.

 

[Cigary43]

Personal loss makes us look at life differently in that moment...we all lose those close to us as we all live lives of choice. When I think about it I know that I live my life not for myself but for my Creator and having said that I know I have done what I can as I was never meant to live eternally on this planet nor would I want to. I will be 60 years old in a couple of months and have faced death on more than a few occasions and none of us are guaranteed anything....except what we experience and how we live our lives during our time here. We can take extreme measures of living our lives recklessly or we can choose to live a very careful life by eating and drinking healthy...never driving a car...never doing anything that risks our life....but that's not living. We can be run over by a bus...we can be struck by lightening..we can be hit by many things in life that could kill us but to live in such a way where we are afraid of living...is not living.

To try and live a life of worth takes courage as well as risk...I'd rather live my life being unafraid and having faith rather than to live my life under a cover and just poking my head out every now and then to see what's going on. Cigars for me are worth the risk...riding my motorcycle is worth the risk....eating steaks and eating at Fast Food places is worth it and so is trying to balance life in all aspects of eating healthy and enjoying life as much as possible. To live life being afraid of what "might" happen is not something I believe in and if I die tomorrow then I die unafraid and knowing that I did the right things in life...serving my Creator and doing right by my fellow man. Everything after that is just making personal choices of what I wanted to do from the time I was born until the time I leave this world and over thinking this can rob you of living a life that has meaning. Those we lose in this life would never want us to grieve for the rest of our lives....we survive and honor them by living a life that has meaning.

 

[Phaedron]

I, too, am sorry for your loss. Both my parents died of diseases related to smoking. My dad smoked filterless Lucky Strikes up until the time he had two major heart attacks. After two bypass surgeries, his luck finally ran out, even though he quit smoking and adopted a complete 180 degree turn in his lifestyle choices. I think he lived much longer than anyone would have reasonably expected him to because of those changes, but he still died much too young. My mom was also a lifelong smoker, and she got lung cancer. Had to have part of one lung removed, and part of her other lung was compromised by scar tissue from radiation. She beat all the odds by living longer than five years from the date of diagnosis... but passed two years after that-- and it was not a fun seven years for her.

I've read one monograph on cancer risks associated with cigar smoking where the authors actually differentiated between subjects who had smoked cigarettes in the past (most other studies are blind to this and, as a result, the findings are much more severe). It also broke it down in terms of the frequency of use and the extent to which the subjects self-reported inhalation. Here's a link to the paper:http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/Brp/tcrb/monographs/9/m9_1.pdf. Table 1 on page 6 is the big reveal. For most health risks, ours is not significantly greater than non-smokers, with the exception of cancer of the larynx. Still, that risk comes in at 6 times higher than for a non-smoker if our rate of consumption is 1-2 cigars per day (amazingly, we are slightly less prone to coronary heart disease at that rate of consumption than non-smokers-- which points to the stress relief we seek with a fine cigar). My rate of consumption is 2-3 cigars per week, and I have never smoked cigarettes. I did talk to my doctor about this and, despite the fact that he maintained that it was always his duty to counsel patients not to use any form of tobacco, he also acknowledged that my rate of cigar consumption was really nothing to be concerned about. So I'm hanging my hat on that!

 

[Hoshneer]

I am sorry, it is not easy to deal with at all. A couple years back we lost a good friend in our cigar club to cancer esophagus cancer. It did make me think a lot and sometimes I still actually consider just quitting. A lot of things can kill us in this world though and that is only one of them. We all know there is risk involved but there is risk in everything. My condolences.

 

[3/5King]

I'm sorry your friend had to go through the battle with lung cancer and that you had to sit watching helplessly... Life is filled with grief, none of it is ever easy to deal with and some of it will make us think differently about our own choices in life. I tend to do things I have a passion for and cigar smoking happens to be one of them. I smoked cigarettes for 13 years and quit because inhaling the smoke just makes enjoying recreational life so much more difficult (also my mom smokes and hacks a lung every day.... I hate hearing it because it always just makes me think of her dying...but it's her choice and I can't make decisions for her) smoking cigars doesn't inhibit my physical activities (much) (nicotine is still a vasoconstrictor and causes the blood vessels to tighten for awhile after) and I truly enjoy them enough to outweigh the possible risks that are involved. Some people wake up and have cancer without ever taking any risks at all... Life is meant to be lived, you can never outlast it. So I want to enjoy it fully and in whatever way makes me feel as if I am.... Right now, cigars make me feel that way. I'll keep smoking them until I feel differently.

As for your choice, do what you want. Make up your mind on what you want to do and how you feel, we will all still be a friend you can hang out with (in a sense lol) and bullshit with.. Cigar smoker or not...

 

[Dave]

I always feel better when I tell myself that cigars aren't cigarettes and I won't get cancer. I'm quick to point to articles and studies that support this. But....come to think about it.....if a 'cigar smoker' is someone who has a cigar once or twice a week, I am not sure what that makes me. Four to six a day isn't unusual....especially if there's fishing involved....or grilling...or driving...or breathing...lol. I smoke in my car...and in the winter with the windows mostly up -- seems to me that I'm probably re-inhaling a lot more smoke than the typical 'cigar smoker'. And, I've known a cigar smoker who was taken too young by throat cancer.....I'm starting to consider cigars' relation to my mortality just a little bit more as I get older. Not enough to change my actions....but maybe before too long.....or not

 

[Eric]

Sorry about your loss of your friend, brother.

Not to get too off tangent or steer discussion away but this reminds me that one of the things I have been wanting to add in the future is at least a sticky regarding cigar smoking and health.

 

[Hoshneer]

Sorry about your loss of your friend, brother.

Not to get too off tangent or steer discussion away but this reminds me that one of the things I have been wanting to add in the future is at least a sticky regarding cigar smoking and health.

I was thinking the other day that it would be cool to have a memorial section for lost brothers. That way we can remember them. Do you think that would be possible?

 

[johndavidson]

So yesterday a good friend died after 4 months fighting lung cancer. He smoked at least a pack of camels everyday for the last 50 years. Its a hell of a thing watching another family member die from cigarette induced cancer.

What this is all leading to is what do you tell yourself, or others about smoking? I know the risks and we all know they are alot less than cigarettes, but none the less its still there. Does it ever cross your mind about quiting, or do you say fuck it we all gotta die someday? Thanks everyone for letting me vent and just say what had been in my head.

If they cant prove smoking caused it,its pretty easy to say it didn't cause it!


JOINT STATEMENT ON THE RE-ASSESSMENT OF THE TOXICOLOGICAL TESTING OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS"
7 October, the COT meeting on 26 October and the COC meeting on 18
November 2004.






"5. The Committees commented that tobacco smoke was a highly complex chemical mixture and that the causative agents for smoke induced diseases (such as cardiovascular disease, cancer, effects on reproduction and on offspring) was unknown. The mechanisms by which tobacco induced adverse effects were not established. The best information related to tobacco smoke - induced lung cancer, but even in this instance a detailed mechanism was not available. The Committees therefore agreed that on the basis of current knowledge it would be very difficult to identify a toxicological testing strategy or a biomonitoring approach for use in volunteer studies with smokers where the end-points determined or biomarkers measured were predictive of the overall burden of tobacco-induced adverse disease."

In other words ... our first hand smoke theory is so lame we can't even design a bogus lab experiment to prove it. In fact ... we don't even know how tobacco does all of the magical things we claim it does.

The greatest threat to the second hand theory is the weakness of the first hand theory.

Then add in the AGE FACTOR...............even with non-smokers they get it too and at the old age group also

The ranking goes for all cancer deaths/mortality:

Per 100,000 population CDC NUMBERS/ smoking rates from tobacco free kids

Kentucky at 207 Adults in Kentucky who smoke* 29.0% (971,000)

Miss. 200 Adults in Mississippi who smoke* 26.0% (579,300)

West Virginia 196 Adults in West Virginia who smoke* 28.6% (420,500)

Louisianna 196 Adults in Louisiana who smoke* 25.7% (888,300)

Arkansas 193 Adults in Arkansas who smoke* 27.0% (601,400)

Alabama 190 Adults in Alabama who smoke* 24.3% (893,100)

Indiana 187 Adults in Indiana who smoke* 25.6% (1,259,300)

Maine 186 Adults in Maine who smoke* 22.8% (241,400)

Missouri 184 Adults in Missouri who smoke* 25.0% (1,149,600)

Delaware 184 Adults in Delaware who smoke* 21.8% (153,100)

South Carolina 182 Adults in South Carolina who smoke* 23.1% (831,200)

As we can see kentucky has the Highest rate but when we look at the map of kentucky cancer it shows us that its the Coal Mining Mountain region that sets Kentuckys state level Higher than all the rest. When we look at the local county levels they are pretty much in line with the rest of the country. Louisville reports roughly 750 cancer cases in 2010 by the chart yet no mention of out of state cases diagnosed there by the local 5 hospitals and cancer treatment done there by far attracting a higher base rate. Possibly inflating the kentucky numbers for louisville itself.

But even without removing the coal mining regions the rate trends precisely with other states..........


Lung and Bronchus. Invasive Cancer Incidence Rates and 95% Confidence Intervals by Age and Race and Ethnicity, United States (Table 3.15.1.1M) *†‡

Rates are per 100,000 persons. Rates are per 100,000 persons.

Note the age where LC is found…………..OLD AGE group incidence hits the 500/100,000 at age 75-85

AGE it seems is the deciding factor……….


Sorry it wont allow links yet........

 

[johndavidson]

Heres a time line starting in 1900,dont be surprised to see the same thing playing out today nearly 100 years later.

1901: REGULATION: Strong anti-cigarette activity in 43 of the 45 states. "Only Wyoming and Louisiana had paid no attention to the cigarette controversy, while the other forty-three states either already had anti-cigarette laws on the books or were considering new or tougher anti-cigarette laws, or were the scenes of heavy anti- cigarette activity" (Dillow, 1981:10).

1904: New York: A judge sends a woman is sent to jail for 30 days for smoking in front of her children.

1904: New York City. A woman is arrested for smoking a cigarette in an automobile. "You can't do that on Fifth Avenue," the arresting officer says.

1907: Business owners are refusing to hire smokers. On August 8, the New York Times writes: "Business ... is doing what all the anti-cigarette specialists could not do."

1917: SMOKEFREE: Tobacco control laws have fallen, including smoking bans in numerous cities, and the states of Arkansas, Iowa, Idaho and Tennessee.

1937: hitler institutes laws against smoking.This one you can google.

 

[johndavidson]

Here is an even greater study to date and this year too!

This pretty well destroys the Myth of second hand smoke:


Lungs from pack-a-day smokers safe for transplant, study finds.

By JoNel Aleccia, Staff Writer, NBC News.

Using lung transplants from heavy smokers may sound like a cruel joke, but a new study finds that organs taken from people who puffed a pack a day for more than 20 years are likely safe.

What’s more, the analysis of lung transplant data from the U.S. between 2005 and 2011 confirms what transplant experts say they already know: For some patients on a crowded organ waiting list, lungs from smokers are better than none.

“I think people are grateful just to have a shot at getting lungs,” said Dr. Sharven Taghavi, a cardiovascular surgical resident at Temple University Hospital in Philadelphia, who led the new study...........................

Ive done the math here and this is how it works out with second ahnd smoke and people inhaling it!

The 16 cities study conducted by the U.S. DEPT OF ENERGY and later by Oakridge National laboratories discovered:

Cigarette smoke, bartenders annual exposure to smoke rises, at most, to the equivalent of 6 cigarettes/year.

146,000 CIGARETTES SMOKED IN 20 YEARS AT 1 PACK A DAY.

A bartender would have to work in second hand smoke for 2433 years to get an equivalent dose.

Then the average non-smoker in a ventilated restaurant for an hour would have to go back and forth each day for 119,000 years to get an equivalent 20 years of smoking a pack a day! Pretty well impossible ehh!

 

[johndavidson]

About 90% of secondary smoke is composed of water vapor and ordinary air with a minor amount of carbon dioxide. The volume of water vapor of second hand smoke becomes even larger as it quickly disperses into the air,depending upon the humidity factors within a set location indoors or outdoors. Exhaled smoke from a smoker will provide 20% more water vapor to the smoke as it exists the smokers mouth.

4 % is carbon monoxide.

6 % is those supposed 4,000 chemicals to be found in tobacco smoke. Unfortunatley for the smoke free advocates these supposed chemicals are more theorized than actually found.What is found is so small to even call them threats to humans is beyond belief.Nanograms,picograms and femptograms......
(1989 Report of the Surgeon General p. 80).

 

[Captain_Midnight]

Sorry to hear about your friend. Lately I feel like I've been surrounded by cancer, between family, friends, and coworkers.
I can't, or won't, quote studies. I know it's not good for me. However, I do really enjoy it, and it does help me relax (got to be a health benefit there). But, to answer your question, I usually tell myself 4 things.
1. These days, even the air we breath and water we drink may cause cancer.
2. Life, for me, is about relationships and experiences. The worst thing, is to die without having really lived.
3. Moderation in all things. I have my limits and try to stick to them.
4. We're all going to die, and everybody has to die of something.
None of this helps when you lose someone close to you. My thoughts are with you.

 

[Argus17]

First, my condolences to the OP. I'm so sorry for your loss.

Personally, I have very little concern about contracting cancer. I'm a 56 year old in great health. I exercise, eat correctly, avoid processed foods, gluten, GMOs, soy, white starches, and sugars. I consume tons of green and orange vegetables, flax, chia, and moderate amounts of olive and coconut oils. I take a high end, organic, raw, whole food vitamin, plus 12 raw bitter apricot kernels each day. The apricot kernels provide approximately 120 mg. of laetrile (vitamin B-17), which is the recommended dose for cancer prevention.

I do not trust the medical profession, when it comes to traditional cancer "treatments". Sadly, obscene profits are made in mostly ineffective cancer treatments, not in curing or preventing it. I've always wondered how many cancer deaths can be attributed to the treatment (i.e. chemo), and not the cancer itself. My personal belief is that cancer is a deficiency disease, due to the lack of laetrile in our modern diets.

I know that many of you will label me as a nut case, but those with an open mind should read "A World Without Cancer" by G. Edward Griffin.