WLT Kit Bliss Cigar Kickstarter Concept

[blisscigarco]

Here's what I thought of over coffee a few minutes ago. Possibly there's not enough caffeine in the blood yet and this makes no sense, but I'm pinning it here before I forget it a few minutes hence.

Info: I like rolling cigars. I am out of leaf. I can't afford to buy more leaf now. There are people who are interested in what we are doing. There are people curious about WLT kits: how to make cigars with them, how many you can make, how easy it is, what they taste like when you're done, etc.

Idea: We get enough people to throw enough cash into the kitty, perhaps at some fixed initial buy-in, to purchase all six WLT kits and have them shipped to me:
http://wholeleaftobacco.com/Whole-Leaf-Cigar-Blends_c30.htm

I then roll them, clearly label them, and mail back to each contributor their share of the bounty. They would get a package from me containing x amount of sticks from each kit. I would also keep ~3 sticks from each kit so that I can be involved in the tasting aspect of the project.

I would carefully document on video the process of making a high quality stick in 1-3 vitolas from each kit, so that there will be videos people can use to make sticks from each kit, with and without a mold, and info about how many they can make, how to case their leaf, a whole beginning-to-end demo video for each kit, from sealed bags to finished pro-quality sticks.

There would be, from me, an unbiased review of the quality of each kit, and their could be a thread here where the contributors to the project discuss each kit's qualities, subjectively and objectively, after they've smoked their respective sticks over some period of time.

I have purchased and rolled four of the kits, but that was 2 years ago, so I can't give any opinion on the quality of the current batches available.

If this idea seems vaguely interesting, then we just have to find a way to get some guys who want to buy in; they could lapyap me the $ and I order the kits from Don. We could promo this idea here and at WLT and anywhere else.

Here's my blog where you can see what my sticks look like:

http://blisscigar.tumblr.com/

Here's my youtube where you can see some of my videos. Most are artsy; the ones I'd make for this project would be less artsy and more technical:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKQPvIbslAFFDYDGi-EivRQ/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=1&view=0

Thanks. -b

 

[VeLoRoK]

This is an excellent idea. However, what if someone is interested in one or two kits vs all of them? The two oscuro kits sound nice to me. Also, newb question: are the numbers (ie habano 2000, corojo 99 etc) referring to a strain of leaf or a harvest year or what?

 

[blisscigarco]

This is an excellent idea. However, what if someone is interested in one or two kits vs all of them? The two oscuro kits sound nice to me. Also, newb question: are the numbers (ie habano 2000, corojo 99 etc) referring to a strain of leaf or a harvest year or what?

Those numbers are for a strain name.
Not sure, could be way wrong, but I don't think selective buy-in would work really well on this specific concept for a few logistical reasons. OTOH you could just wait and see how it pans out and learn whether the oscuro kits really produce good sticks or not.

 

[nic]

I'd love to see this happen. Blake, if you're still interested, let's get this going.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Boudie]

Did you consider doing two separate batches a full/med and a mild/med? I'm fascinated by the idea but wouldn't be interested in mild cigars, if I read your post correctly. Great idea!

Sorry, didn't realize it was an old post but still a great idea

 

[blisscigarco]

Did you consider doing two separate batches a full/med and a mild/med? I'm fascinated by the idea but wouldn't be interested in mild cigars, if I read your post correctly. Great idea!

Sorry, didn't realize it was an old post but still a great idea

IMHO it's nearly impossible to make a mild cigar with retail leaf. A mild cigar generally takes the longest-fermented and longest aged and most premium leaf; and we don't get that stuff. The closest we can come to mild would be called "medium-strong" by reviewers; and much of what we make is so f'in strong that people who have only experienced commercial sticks would be shocked at what a real strong cigar is like. Think jackhammer to the forehead, pour some lighter fluid and battery acid into the hole and hit it with a blowtorch. So no fear! No mild cigars to see here, folks!

Anyway people ya I'm always up to roll cigars, so if anyone wants to know what the kits are like these days, I'm up for it.

 

[Boudie]

Cool, when I read the old link it mentioned for mild/medium cigars. Jackhammer to the forehead huh? I'm game

 

[blisscigarco]

I plugged the six kits into the cart and it looks like it's $218 including shipping and minus the $10 discount. That's $36.33 each split six ways. Then there's like $7 each for me to send each "kicker" his share of the sticks. Split the diff, call it $40 a head for a six-man buy-in. My guess based on the four kits I've done in the past is that we'll each get 2 of each stick, so twelve each. Then from there we can smoke and evaluate. I can even blind-man puff it if you want, putting nice labels on each stick but not telling you what they are until we all chime in with our ratings. If it comes to pass that six want to blow $40 each on twelve sticks and some fun, then I'll post my ÞâýpåĽ info.

 

[Jimmy_jack]

Great! I will contribute.


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[Boudie]

I'm in, as previously mentioned. Blind is a good idea

 

[BigSkySmoke]

I'm in...sounds fun. @BrewinHooligan keeps telling me I just need to buy a kit. I think this qualifies....

 

[blisscigarco]

I just realized there is something fundamentally troublesome with this proposition. I can sum it up in one word: wrappers. But in more details:

Two of these kits use the Ec. Maduro, and one uses the H2K; and while you will may hear raves about those wrappers if you ask the old-timers at the FTT forum, those of us who've used these wrappers do not like them and feel they suffer from the worst offense for a wrapper: they don't burn. In the case of the Ec. Maduro there are also many of us who don't think it tastes good. And regardless of any arguments about how much a wrapper brings to the overall stick, we can agree that it is impossible to make a good stick with a bad wrapper.

Therefore I think a more interesting project would be for us to devise our own suggested kits. There must be some interesting group project along these lines, even though most of us currently have to use mixes of leaves from WLT and LO (typically WLT filler and LO wrappers) in order to get a decent final result.

Thoughts/opinions? MarcL seems to be one of the few guys here who comes up with reputable sticks with no LO contents.... I have done so in the past but with items no longer in stock, and with great variance in outcome. He's a guy I'd like to hear some kit ideas from....

 

[nic]

Thoughts/opinions? MarcL seems to be one of the few guys here who comes up with reputable sticks with no LO contents.... I have done so in the past but with items no longer in stock, and with great variance in outcome. He's a guy I'd like to hear some kit ideas from....

I don't hate the Ec Maduro like many of you do. It isn't my first choice in flavor, but I would be fine using up the rest of my lb if, like you said, it would burn. Otherwise, I completely agree with you. I don't have much faith in the blends that are sold on WLT. Especially after reading the threads on FTT where most of those blends were conceived.

So B, are you looking blends? If so, here's my "house blend". I usually describe it as a current day, medium+ to full smoke similar to many of the bouquet blends currently on the market. Spice, earth, decent nicotine kick. Sub any binder you prefer. I recommend a spicy wrapper to keep with the intentions of the blend. However, this blend had done well with every wrapper I've tried. A shade wrapper really changes the smoke in a major way.

Filler:
1 WLT Criollo Seco
1 WLT Corojo Viso
1 WLT Criollo Ligero
Binder: Jorge Ecuadorian
Wrapper: Jorge H2K

 

[blisscigarco]

I don't hate the Ec Maduro like many of you do. It isn't my first choice in flavor, but I would be fine using up the rest of my lb if, like you said, it would burn. Otherwise, I completely agree with you. I don't have much faith in the blends that are sold on WLT. Especially after reading the threads on FTT where most of those blends were conceived.

So B, are you looking blends? If so, here's my "house blend". I usually describe it as a current day, medium+ to full smoke similar to many of the bouquet blends currently on the market. Spice, earth, decent nicotine kick. Sub any binder you prefer. I recommend a spicy wrapper to keep with the intentions of the blend. However, this blend had done well with every wrapper I've tried. A shade wrapper really changes the smoke in a major way.

Filler:
1 WLT Criollo Seco
1 WLT Corojo Viso
1 WLT Criollo Ligero
Binder: Jorge Ecuadorian
Wrapper: Jorge H2K

Thanks. Excellent data.

 

[Marc L]

The thing is, if I give a list of leaf and how much, isn’t it just going to end up to be fire proof anyway?
what about the rest that makes it all work.
Consider it may not always be the leaf.
It seems the same leaf that works for me is the same leaf that is found to be shit leaf.
I don’t know how or, if it can be explained when a certain tobacco has had enough working done to it.

 

[blisscigarco]

The thing is, if I give a list of leaf and how much, isn’t it just going to end up to be fire proof anyway?
what about the rest that makes it all work.
Consider it may not always be the leaf.
It seems the same leaf that works for me is the same leaf that is found to be shit leaf.
I don’t know how or, if it can be explained when a certain tobacco has had enough working done to it.

Right. Well, the thing is, there's gotta be some actual possible kit that works without special knowledge and treatment, doesn't there? I understand what you're saying: there's no way to make a MarcL kit because his rolls involve special treatment. I was thinking you might have some insight into a possible blend that doesn't require such treatment. Was just wondering, that's all.

These kits aren't sold with a notice like, "This kit won't work unless you can figure out some semi-secret skills that even long-term hobby rollers don't have a clue about, which we will not tell you about, which are not mentioned nor described anywhere on our forums, and then you treat this leaf with x for y amount of time." These kits say, "Hey, the stuff's locked up in these special vapor-proof bags at proper case," which implies "ready to roll." Because any kind of treatment is gonna change the case one or multiple times. There is not mention of special treatment required post-purchase. These kits are not being sold to advanced long-time semi-pros with a suite of skills. These are kits that Webmost tells any curious noob, "Get a WLT kit!" And now I look at those kits and I know most of them aren't gonna work. The one thing that'll probably burn in there is the one with the CT Shade wrapper, and most beginning rollers don't want that.

From the point of view of those who would be the customers of these kits, this is not a reasonable situation. That's all I'm looking for, determining a good kit for what a kit is meant to be: a way for beginners to get started and have a win and a good feeling because they rolled something that was good. Maybe the possibility doesn't exist. Was just thinking about it.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

So, a "kit" that may work well for beginners is my cherry bomb blend. It requires an order from both WLT and LO. For filler you have Ecuador habano seco (LO), corojo viso (WLT), and criollo ligero (WLT), with a Dominican binder (either vendors is suitable) with an Ecuadorian habano ligero wrapper. This is actually a good wrapper for a beginner to work with because it it relatively thick and sturdy yet the veins aren't massive and it lays flat and shiny very easily. The filler is a 1:1:1 ratio and the smoke is a medium plus that is approachable to most everyone and there is no special treatment required of the leaf except I give all my ligero a little mojo to smooth it out.

 

[blisscigarco]

I don't hate the Ec Maduro like many of you do. It isn't my first choice in flavor, but I would be fine using up the rest of my lb if, like you said, it would burn. Otherwise, I completely agree with you. I don't have much faith in the blends that are sold on WLT. Especially after reading the threads on FTT where most of those blends were conceived.

So B, are you looking blends? If so, here's my "house blend". I usually describe it as a current day, medium+ to full smoke similar to many of the bouquet blends currently on the market. Spice, earth, decent nicotine kick. Sub any binder you prefer. I recommend a spicy wrapper to keep with the intentions of the blend. However, this blend had done well with every wrapper I've tried. A shade wrapper really changes the smoke in a major way.

Filler:
1 WLT Criollo Seco
1 WLT Corojo Viso
1 WLT Criollo Ligero
Binder: Jorge Ecuadorian
Wrapper: Jorge H2K

Thanks. So what do you think might be an all-WLT kit version? Dom binder and Criollo98 wrapper?

 

[nic]

Thanks. So what do you think might be an all-WLT kit version? Dom binder and Criollo98 wrapper?

I think both of those subs should work out just fine. I've not used that binder, but opinion seems to be good.

 

[Marc L]

Right. Well, the thing is, there's gotta be some actual possible kit that works without special knowledge and treatment, doesn't there?

I think it’s absolutely possible given some basics. I believe, because of the variants that individuality could bring, it may not work out for everyone.

I understand what you're saying: there's no way to make a MarcL kit because his rolls involve special treatment. I was thinking you might have some insight into a possible blend that doesn't require such treatment. Was just wondering, that's all.

That’s not what I said or meant to say. I give blends and will continue too. I’m not sure I believe you think that’s what I meant eather. because I feel you know that if anyone puts something together it could work out or not. for themselves or someone else.

These kits aren't sold with a notice like, "This kit won't work unless you can figure out some semi-secret skills that even long-term hobby rollers don't have a clue about, and then you treat this leaf with x for y amount of time." These kits say, "Hey, the stuff's locked up in these special vapor-proof bags at proper case," which implies "ready to roll." Because any kind of treatment is gonna change the case one or multiple times. There is not mention of special treatment required post-purchase. These kits are not being sold to advanced long-time semi-pros with a suite of skills. These are kits that Webmost tells any curious noob, "Get a WLT kit!" And now I look at those kits and I know most of them aren't gonna work. The one thing that'll probably burn in there is the one with the CT Shade wrapper, and most beginning rollers don't want that.

This has always perplexed me. I remember when there was the call for kit suggestions made. I really wanted to be part of it but couldn’t get anything done in a reasonable amount of time. not acceptable. same thing with the time there was the Amazonian leaf thing.
Looking at the two given kit source descriptions, thinking as a new buyer, I’m thinking how would I write it as a seller? maybe less is more? for me, it’s like the reviewer of wines or cigars, I just don’t take them that seriously, It’s more entertaining and amusement. I like certain styling mainly I think. I’ve made a short study of it and I found the ruling contributor that makes it possible is subjectivity.

the point of view of those who would be the customers of these kits, this is not a reasonable situation. That's all I'm looking for, determining a good kit for what a kit is meant to be: a way for beginners to get started and have a win and a good feeling because they rolled something that was good. Maybe the possibility doesn't exist. Was just thinking about it.

I’m with you on motive here. If there wasn’t such a subjective nature to it, it would be much easier. for me, and how I find it gratifying, I want others to experience that at what ever level is right for them.