njstone
BoM January 2010
He should have paid the fee, but if he paid TAXES the FD should have come out. House burned down and pets killed? This guys has serious lawsuit power here ... he could end up owning what I presume to be a small town.
Didn't Pay Your $75 - Sorry, No Fire Dept For You
- Thread starter bdc30
- Start date
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
I have a serious problem with entities that are supposed to be funded by tax dollars, such as a fire department, trying to charge fees for services that the taxes that are collected presumably pay for.
I have seen quite a few cases where local entities have tried to send a bill to victims of accidents for fire and EMS service from the fire department in an effort to fill budgetary shortfalls and that is unacceptable, in my opinion.
This case seems different as he lived in an area that was not under the jurisdiction of the city fire department and the $75 was a consolation fee to be included.
I have seen quite a few cases where local entities have tried to send a bill to victims of accidents for fire and EMS service from the fire department in an effort to fill budgetary shortfalls and that is unacceptable, in my opinion.
This case seems different as he lived in an area that was not under the jurisdiction of the city fire department and the $75 was a consolation fee to be included.
smokem94
BoM Sept. 05
Many rural areas don't have fire departments that are funded with tax dollars as is the case here. I know, I live in one...most of eastern colorado has volunteer fire departments and they survive off of fees, contributions, and fund raisers.
The guy knew the rules and ignored them and is now playing on bleeding hearts to make a case, most of which don't have a frickin clue how it works.
The guy knew the rules and ignored them and is now playing on bleeding hearts to make a case, most of which don't have a frickin clue how it works.
Same here, Mike. There are huge areas in this state where all funding is local; you do not pay, you do not get service when you need it. . .Simple, really. . .The $75 was fire insurance. He did not buy and took the risk. . .He lost.
BEN(SWEDEN)
Bockbrännarbolmers
I pay taxes and the goverment does the rest. Imo firedepartment shouldnt be an option!!! Who does not want help when there is a fire?!
It is something that should be included in everyones living standards = funded to 100% by the goverment no matter what!! We have world second higest taxes here in Sweden but also amongst the higest standars to. But to not wonder of the issue....I really feel bad for this guy.
Very sad and you'd think the department would have had a little more compassion, but its a State problem. Several states allow for "subscription" fire protection services, where you have to pay for fire protection. Basically you could buy a fire engine, park it in your garage, then hang up a sign saying "Joe's Fire Department" and bill people for protection. The only way to stop it is to have the State pass laws making it illegal.
Here in PA that type of fire department is illegal, as one of the duties of all local goverments is to provide fire protection for the citizens. Departments here are in PA are also banned by State Law for charging for their services (putting out the fire, extrication, etc). If the local goverment has a ordinance in place we can bill for expendables, foam, absorbent, flares, etc.
Here in PA that type of fire department is illegal, as one of the duties of all local goverments is to provide fire protection for the citizens. Departments here are in PA are also banned by State Law for charging for their services (putting out the fire, extrication, etc). If the local goverment has a ordinance in place we can bill for expendables, foam, absorbent, flares, etc.
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
I'm surprised they didn't help and then just send a bill.
Me too. It seems like these guys view what they do as "just a job" and they missed the bigger picture. Being a firefighter is a calling, a service. If they don't passionately care about what they do, they should just go back to waiting on tables. If they did care passionately, they would have just put the fire out.
bdc30
BoM May '11
lol there's a video of this guy being interviewed on CNN today
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/10/06/am.cranick.home.burns.cnn?hpt=T2
Most interesting part (to me) was that his son's house caught fire 3 years ago - AND THEY HADN'T PAID THE $75 FEE - but the fire dept attended and put it out that time and let them pay the fee the next day. You'd think that might have taught them a lesson?
The mayor's comment about trying to buy car insurance only after you have an accident is pretty much how I feel on this one too.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/10/06/am.cranick.home.burns.cnn?hpt=T2
Most interesting part (to me) was that his son's house caught fire 3 years ago - AND THEY HADN'T PAID THE $75 FEE - but the fire dept attended and put it out that time and let them pay the fee the next day. You'd think that might have taught them a lesson?
The mayor's comment about trying to buy car insurance only after you have an accident is pretty much how I feel on this one too.
Jfire
BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
I would ask that you reread your commment, and then decide if its appropriate as a blanket statement.
Or maybe you feel the way this gentleman did?
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7692654
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What's next, we can't stop your murderer because you didn't pay your Police Department Fee?
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
No matter how passionate they are they probably couldn't deploy for the fire without permission from someone in charge. That would be a better focus for the comment. No one other than the men on duty that day knows anything about the level to which they may have wanted to help but were probably told not to.
The thing that I find disturbing as that the service was refused because the 911 operator referenced a list of approved homes to report to. It may not be an equal comparison but, if someone goes to a hospital, public or privately funded, in an emergency situation and doesn't have health insurance, they aren't allowed to just lie there and die, are they?
The thing that I find disturbing as that the service was refused because the 911 operator referenced a list of approved homes to report to. It may not be an equal comparison but, if someone goes to a hospital, public or privately funded, in an emergency situation and doesn't have health insurance, they aren't allowed to just lie there and die, are they?
Jfire
BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
I'm sorry, no offense meant with my comment, but as somebody who was a medic and an emt I view these things as the same. Police, firefighters, and healthcare workers all together. I truly and honestly believe these occupations are a calling. Once red tape becomes more important than saving lives, it's time to quit.
I'm not trying to say that's the case with all or even many firefighters, but probably is the case with whoever made the decision to let the house burn, killing the pets inside.
Of course not. I do not know of a single jurisdiction in my state that is not covered by at least a county sheriff paid by state or local taxes. However, fire departments are not treated the same under the laws of many states. Legislatures have take the position that the fire decision is about risk and allowed it to be handled locally, the very best kind of government. There is no unfunded mandate or state level intrusion into local affairs, or to the payer of property taxes, which I personally applaud. I wish I could pay only $75 per year in my jurisdiction. I pay a far higher amount and resent most of it.
As I said, this guy bet and lost. As to stopping the murderer: I am very happy and able to take care of that issue myself. The JPFO has a great book called "Dial 911 And Die", that discusses in detail the great police protection myth.
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Greg
BoM October 2006
Nice!! :grin:
This is something I see as a canary in the coal mine. No matter where you sit, and I am always on the sides of Fire/Police/Military, something is wrong. And it's not the fault of those fire fighters.
Jfire
BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
I view my job as a calling and you can bet I'm most likely not going into a trailer home looking for a Pet. Trailer homes are some of the deadliest fires for us. It's called risk and reward. I don't want my chief knocking on my families door saying he died for a cat. Its a pet although some see it a family member it's not. It can be replaced although with some detriment to the family. A human being is another story. We our taught in our profession daily to think about the risk and reward of our duties on fire scenes. Still to this day too many of us across the country our dying for the wrong reasons.
I'm just asking everyone reading this to not Monday morning quarterback because none of us were there.
Greg
BoM October 2006
I live in a rural area too, and we use volunteer FDs as well. They hold fundraisers like cookouts, yard sales, etc....they even deliver pizza. However, there was a major fire on our mountain just a few weeks back, one that the local FDs couldn't handle, and over 10 Depts responded from 3 different states to help out.
The point is, the fire departments in the other states didn't have to help, but they did.