Temperatur and beetles

[bwhyte]

With summer approaching and living in Florida, hot weather will be here before I know it. I am starting to have concerns with the temp of my humidor and beetles. With my ac set at 78 in the summer means my humidor will be somewhere around that same temp. I hear this is the breading temp for beetles. I am contemplating getting a wine cooler so help solve my problem but I really like my humidors and would hate to give them up. I have recently read that cigars now are so well treated that you don't have to really worry about beetles unless you are getting cigars from a place that rolls them on the spot. Is there any truth to that? I would realt hate to give up my humidors unless I really have to. How many people have actually gotten beetles?

Can someone please help clarify.

 

[RonC]

if it is a major concern, i believe in quarantining new cigars. keep new cigars in a seperate humidor for 1 year.

 

[mcmoyer]

I've had beetles twice, neither was particularly devastating (but it could have been). We keep our AC on at 75* in the summer. If there is any question in my mind about the origin of incoming cigars I freeze them (as outlined in a couple of threads here) and isolate them for a spell before introducing them into the general population.

I do also have a wine cooler...in ADDITION to the humidors and coolers.

:cbig:

 

[bwhyte]

I don't neccessarily think its a major concern unless I should treat it like that. I have never worried about it before until I read something it and it got me thinking. I have never had, seen or known anyone to have one in my 11 years of smoking and being involved in cigars.

 

[Thecatch83]

This is from another forum, but I found it to be one of the most informative threads I have read. I freeze everything in double zip locks and keep everything below 70 degrees.......works like a charm. Good luck!

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7919

 

[JNT]

This is from another forum, but I found it to be one of the most informative threads I have read. I freeze everything in double zip locks and keep everything below 70 degrees.......works like a charm. Good luck!

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7919

OHHH!!! The pics of the Padron's are brutal. Like a dog chewed them.

 

[megladon8]

I was always under the impression, though, that freezing your cigars (however carefully you do it) greatly damages/reduces/even eliminates the oils in the cigars.

This seems like a really, really bad thing. I mean, the oils are what give most of the flavour. Without them it'll taste like you're smoking grass and newspaper.

 

[Le Buzz]

At 78 F you are taking a huge risk. Get a wine cooler big enough for your humis and put them in there in the summer. Once fall hits you can take them out until next summer. You dont have to give up your nice humis, just find a creative solution.

Ive had a very minor beetle issue (only one stick) and believe me i am as ocd as they come. My house stays usually around 70F. I thought i was fine but i still got hit. It can happen to anyone.

 

[megladon8]

Are beetles only a risk with Cubans?

 

[terrantheman]

73 degrees and up the eggs will hatch. You can't freeze and kill the eggs with your home freezers. If you have a basement I would keep your cigars down there. Your basement will stay colder as I'm sure your thermostat for your A/C is upstairs. If you don't have a basement you need a temp controlled humi i.e. vinotemp. No matter how much you freeze cigars you will never get rid of the eggs and anything 73 and up consistent will hatch and you will have a beetle outbreak. Oh an cuba starting freezing there cigars and killing eggs a few years ago but you're dealing with a very odd country that we don't know a whole lot about and I wouldn't trust any QC from there, lol. Also you prolly shouldn't trade with anyone if you have this problem as I think someone would get mighty PO'd if they ended up with beetles in there humi from a trade.

 

[Jwrussell]

Beetles are a risk with all cigars. As the OP mentioned, MOST manufacturers have taken some pretty darn drastic measures to keep them away and to keep eggs from being laid, but there is always the possibility of something slipping through the cracks.

For what it is worth, this is a CONSTANT discussion on the cigar forums. Has been since I got in the hobby, will probably still be when I pass from this world. Many believe that the major manufacturers are freezing cigars. I've not seen any proof one way or the other on this, but it's something that's popped up many a time.

As to freezing hurting the cigars, I have to believe it affects them in some way or other, but if done properly, it is doubtful you will notice a difference. Many people in this hobby with better taste buds than mine do so as a matter of course. If doing so was harming the cigars (the oils in specific) in some major way, I think the practice would pretty much die out.

Any time you are up in the 70's in temps you are taking a risk. How big of a risk is very much up for debate. I have a wine cooler, but I've also had overflow storage for at least a couple of years now that is out of the cooler and I've yet (knock-knock-knock) had any issues.

 

[Jwrussell]

73 degrees and up the eggs will hatch. You can't freeze and kill the eggs with your home freezers. If you have a basement I would keep your cigars down there. Your basement will stay colder as I'm sure your thermostat for your A/C is upstairs. If you don't have a basement you need a temp controlled humi i.e. vinotemp. No matter how much you freeze cigars you will never get rid of the eggs and anything 73 and up consistent will hatch and you will have a beetle outbreak.

Couple of things.

1. I beg to differ on the freezing issue. It just takes longer. There are plenty of very detailed threads on various boards about how long it takes to freeze given the temp of your individual freezer.

2. There are no basements in Florida. Not an option for us.

 

[Koujo]

I usually check my cigars regularly because my humidor get above 73 a lot due to the fact that I live in south Louisiana and I am not rich enough to keep the AC running all day.

 

[terrantheman]

Couple of things.

1. I beg to differ on the freezing issue. It just takes longer. There are plenty of very detailed threads on various boards about how long it takes to freeze given the temp of your individual freezer.

2. There are no basements in Florida. Not an option for us.

I read somewhere that you must reach -32F which in my freezer at home doesn't happen and I don't think it happens in most, you must crack the eggs to kill them from what I have read. You can kill the larvae and the actually beetles themselves by freezing in your freezer but not the eggs unless you have an industrial freezer.

 

[Jwrussell]

From another forum (CW):

CIGAR BEETLE DATA

Cigar Beetle eggs can be killed by exposure to temperatures easily obtainable by home refrigerators/freezers. An industrial deep freeze is not required, as rumor has indicated.

There is a direct correlation between the time it takes to kill and temperature. The colder the temp, the shorter it takes to kill eggs.

The figures below are time to kill 95% (abbreviated LT95) of eggs exposed to the environment. Keep this in mind when applying these figures to cigars because 1) we want to kill 100% of eggs and 2) any eggs inside our cigars have a thick layer of insulating tobacco that must be cooled before the eggs will reach that temperature.

5c (41f) requires ~12 days (275 hours)
0c (32f) requires ~9 days (220 hours)
-5c (23f) requires ~4 days (100 hours)
-10c (14f) requires less than 24 hours
-15c (5f) requires less than 24 hours
-20c (-4f) requires less than 24 hours


The length of time you should freeze your cigars depends on the temperature your freezer is at. I highly recommend that everyone using their freezer to treat cigars keeps a fridge/freezer thermometer in there so they know roughly what temp range their freezer runs at. These are available at most grocery stores, usually with baking supplies. From experience I have seen home freezers that run anywhere from 1 degree below freezing to as low as -25c.
Right now I am trying to get data on how long it takes a cigar to go from room temp to 5c, and from 5c to -20c. Based on data from other consumables I estimate it would take a cigar at least 24 hours to reach the same temperature as the freezer (equilibrium) when it is moved into the freezer from the refrigerator. Based on this alone one should add 24 hours to amount of time cigars are kept in the freezer.
The times given above are to kill 95% of eggs. I have not found times required to kill 99.9% of eggs but doubling the LT95 for that temperature should be more than sufficient.

IN SUMMARY

Double bag your cigars and let them spend 24 hours in the refrigerator. I think everyone agrees that this gives the cigars a safe transition from room temp to near freezing. Move the cigars into the freezer. How long they should stay there depends on your freezer temp. If it is below -10c 72 hours in the freezer should be sufficient. That's 24 hours to get the cigars to -10c, 24 hours to kill 95% of eggs, and an extra 24 hours for good measure. When coming out of the freezer it is a good idea to let the cigars spend 24 hours in the fridge, and another 24 hours at room temp STILL SEALED IN THE BAGS. This protects the cigars from rapid changes in temp/humidity.

I know there are some out there who prefer to avoid freezing because of potential damage to cigars and the rest period required afterwards. The time required will vary greatly based upon the temp of your fridge. Keep in mind the temp will also fluctuate based on door opening/closing etc. (Although this occurs in the freezer, it is less of an issue due to the comparatively short time required) With an LT95 of 12 days at 5c I would personally keep cigars in there for at least 3 weeks.

This information should be applied to uninfested cigars for prevention of a beetle outbreak. If you have cigars that are infested or you know have been exposed to beetles they should be subjected to more lengthy treatment because they will presumably have far more eggs present than any uninfested cigars that picked up some eggs during manufacture.

Data source: Mullen, M. A., and R. T.Arbogast. 1979. Time-temperature-mortality relationships for various stored-product insect eggs and chilling times for selected commodities. Journal of Economic Entomology 72:476–78.

 

[terrantheman]

That is interesting I've never read that one before. Here is a link to stogie guys that I have seen frequently at many places. http://www.stogieguys.com/2008/05/05152008-guest-commentary-my-cigars-are-alive.html Personally I would just keep my cigars in a temp controlled enviornment.

 

[Jwrussell]

Personally I would just keep my cigars in a temp controlled enviornment.

It's why I have a wine cooler. :thumbsup:

 

[megladon8]

I'm thinking of buying one of Danby's thermoelectric wine coolers.

Anyone have experience with this brand?

 

[Jwrussell]

Haven't heard of them. Any particular reason you are looking at that brand? I only ask because if you decide you want to do drawers you are probably better off sticking with one of the standard brands that everyone tends to use (Vinotemp for instance).

 

[megladon8]

Haven't heard of them. Any particular reason you are looking at that brand? I only ask because if you decide you want to do drawers you are probably better off sticking with one of the standard brands that everyone tends to use (Vinotemp for instance).

I'm in Canada and Danby is one of the standard Canadian companies.

Companies like Vinotemp are hard (and very expensive) to get up here.

Also, I work at Lowe's, and Danby is an in-stock brand with us.

The Danby thermoelectric wine cooler is like $400 or so, whereas acquiring a Vinotemp would be $1000+