Box Storage Question

[Donk]

So Here is my question to all the brothers:

I have been storing my cigars in boxes staked in my wine cooler, all is good and fine with humidity and temps. The real question is most of the boxes are varnished baoxes. Such a couple of Ashton VSG boxes, and a couple Opus X boxes. Now when these boxes are shipped they have a Humipack in them. These boxes being varnished, wouldn't they also me moisture resistant at that point? Being that the varnishing of the boxes makes them beautiful but also water resistant. So is there actually humidity getting into those closed varnished boxes? If so How? These boxes are actually very well made boxes and actually they seal very tightly. So I'm asking is it better to not close up the varnished boxes? Or am I just over thinking the fact that they have varnish?

 

[PepinAddiction]

I think someone smart replied to something like this on here before.... something about the relative humidity in the box will be ok regardless.

So, leave the boxes closed.

 

[tubaman]

They will be fine. Yes, the varnished boxes are usually a little better made and will reduce air flow so to speak, but unless you have some vacuum seal around the box, air will still get in. I like getting varnished boxes as they I find they tend to keep the flavors sealed in a little more. As long as the humidity in your cooler is fine, the cigars will be fine also. If you are worried about them being under or over humidified from the store, let them sit open for a few days until they acclimate to your rh.

 

[Donk]

Thanks guys, But isn't it some what odd if you think about it? You usually varnish wood to protect them against moisture. I open them usually weekly or inspection. So I'm check signs of over/under humidification.

 

[Donk]

Any other thoughts?

 

[oneaday]

I agree with Kevin they will be fine even if you weren't opening them up weekly, which will assure they are even with your cabinet reading.

 

[terrantheman]

Dude you're way over thinking this shit, quit being DONK:smokingco

 

[N2Advnture]

They will be fine. Yes, the varnished boxes are usually a little better made and will reduce air flow so to speak, but unless you have some vacuum seal around the box, air will still get in. I like getting varnished boxes as they I find they tend to keep the flavors sealed in a little more. As long as the humidity in your cooler is fine, the cigars will be fine also. If you are worried about them being under or over humidified from the store, let them sit open for a few days until they acclimate to your rh.

I agree with Kevin.

I have found that varnish boxes tend to age cigars better, typically giving them more concentrated flavors. This is also the reason why I started vacuum sealing all my boxes about 6 years ago. :thumbsup:

The "theory" (of which I have no proof but makes sense to me) is that the free exchange of oxygen over cigars deteriorates them faster than if the oxygen exchange is limited.

 

[Ratbert]

This is also the reason why I started vacuum sealing all my boxes about 6 years ago. :thumbsup:

I started doing this myself last year. Boxes that I know I am not going to break for a long time get vacuum sealed. Open boxes are sealed in ziplocks with Boveda packs, or the singles are transferred to airtight containers, liberally spaced with cedar sheets. Boveda packs provide the 65% RH and all I have to worry about is the temp, which is easily controlled.

 

[N2Advnture]

This is also the reason why I started vacuum sealing all my boxes about 6 years ago. :thumbsup:

I started doing this myself last year. Boxes that I know I am not going to break for a long time get vacuum sealed. Open boxes are sealed in ziplocks with Boveda packs, or the singles are transferred to airtight containers, liberally spaced with cedar sheets. Boveda packs provide the 65% RH and all I have to worry about is the temp, which is easily controlled.

Not sure i'd put the packs in there bro as they dry out anyway.

I did an experiment once where a let a box acclimate for a month prior to vacuum sealing them (which is what I always do). I sealed a digital hygrometer in with the box and left the box out of the humidor.

The humidity stayed at 65% for several days before it started to slowly drop (like 1% every few days).

My point is that air exchange is no minimal in a vacuum sealed box that once they are acclimated, you shouldn't need to worry if your humidor is where you want it.

I hope this helps bro

~Mark

 

[Ratbert]

Not sure i'd put the packs in there bro as they dry out anyway.

I did an experiment once where a let a box acclimate for a month prior to vacuum sealing them (which is what I always do). I sealed a digital hygrometer in with the box and left the box out of the humidor.

The humidity stayed at 65% for several days before it started to slowly drop (like 1% every few days).

My point is that air exchange is no minimal in a vacuum sealed box that once they are acclimated, you shouldn't need to worry if your humidor is where you want it.

I hope this helps bro

~Mark

That's interesting...I have had different results (when I vacuum seal a box, I don't completely suck all of the air out, so maybe that's the difference...I cut the machine off and seal it when the bag deflates about 95%, but the "compression" hasn't started yet).

I haven't put a hygrometer in a vacuum bag yet, but I have them in various ziplocks (the big, gallon, freezer bags with the double-zipper thingy) along with partial boxes and a 65% boveda pack and the RH stays solid and doesn't change. The RH reading is from 65% to 68% depending on the moisture content of the cigars, but once it settles, it stays there. I have some that haven't moved off of their reading for a year.

Same with those foodgrade airtight boxes...I'll place singles in them with a Boveda pack and the pack is still soft / mushy two years later (when I open a Boveda pack, I'll write the date on the pack). Bovedas that were just in a desktop, or in a partial box in the cabinet would eventually dry out, but the ones airtight haven't dried out at all.

The whole reason I went this route was because I cannot regulate the humidity in my cabinet or my Avanti...the RH would be different at every shelf and in the spring and summer would just skyrocket in the Staebell cabinet. It was the daily changes in the wooden cabinet that worried me. While everything seemed to smoke okay, I like knowing that they're locked in at approximately 65% and it doesn't fluctuate at all. So now, the RH in the cabinet stays at about 55%, but the bags / boxes are at a constant 65% - 68%. The temp in both stays at around 68 F, although the Staebell has to run almost constantly to stay cool. (I keep my house at about 78 F in the summer...anything cooler would bankrupt me)

I think that so much depends on ones geographic location, the direction your house faces, what room the humidor is in, HVAC ranges, etc.

I have come to believe that it's my home's construction that makes it such a headache. It is poorly insulated and has no basement, so the RH and the temperature fluctuate a great deal in every room throughout any 24 hour period. There is no optimal place for my cabinet, so I've had to create "mini-environments" for each box. By calibrating my hygrometers and then experimenting with many, many different setups, I have finally found a maintenance-free solution that lets me keep a stable temperature / RH environment for my smokes.

 

[N2Advnture]

The main difference from what I can tell is that I take out 100% of the air

 

[Ratbert]

The main difference from what I can tell is that I take out 100% of the air

That must be it. If I knew that I was going to preserve them for a long, long time, that's what I would do as well...aclimate them to perfection and then completely vacuum seal them.

That's good advice about air transfer still taking place, even through plastic.

Like most things in my life, I tend to overthink stuff like this instead of just rolling with it...perfectionism is a curse!

 

[rick12string]

I thought cigars need to breathe a little (to allow ammonia gas to escape, etc.) for proper aging and that’s why humidors don’t seal air tight. Wouldn’t vacuum sealing them air tight defeat this purpose. Also what about a mold or mildew issue.

 

[Ratbert]

I thought cigars need to breathe a little (to allow ammonia gas to escape, etc.) for proper aging and that’s why humidors don’t seal air tight. Wouldn’t vacuum sealing them air tight defeat this purpose. Also what about a mold or mildew issue.

They will still age, just slower...much slower. The MRN touches on this and brings up the counter-point of, "What about all of those airtight glass jars that stored cigars for decades?"

As for mold or mildew, I think you'd need higher moisture content and higher temps before this was problematic.

 

[rick12string]

Good point. I was just thinking about people who use Tupperware to store cigars and how they are supposed to open them every week or two for air exchange. Thought the same would apply.

 

[Ratbert]

I think that maybe the "open it up to breathe" might be overdone somewhat...maybe it's an urban cigar legend.

I just know that I've been storing mine airtight for a little over a year now and sometimes don't open a box for 6-8 months at a time. They smoke / taste just fine.

I sent Headbanger some birthday cigars a couple of years ago and vacuum packed them. One was a RyJ Hermosa No. 2 EL from 2004. He left the cigars in the vacuum pack for about a year before opening them. He told me later that he felt it was hands down the finest EL he had ever smoked. (Of course, Steve's a notorious liar :nodlaugh: but it still makes a good story)

 

[strife]

Thanks guys, But isn't it some what odd if you think about it? You usually varnish wood to protect them against moisture. I open them usually weekly or inspection. So I'm check signs of over/under humidification.

Applying a finish coat to wood does not "waterproof" it. While applying a finish does protect it from moisture it's main purpose is embellishment. Nothing like a good French Polishing for a sweet finish.

 

[Volusianator]

Dude you're way over thinking this shit, quit being DONK:smokingco

:thumbsup: