Cigar Industry Questions

[PLUSH]

Where is the industry at present and where do you see it going? How is the past, current, and pending legislation going to curtail the enjoyment of cigar smoking, cigar shops, and internet ordering.

I am asking these as I am writing a short paper on an industry analysis of an interest me, what better than the cigar?


I am going to look at the CRA information, also what is in the rumor mill about companies merging. I would also like to use some up and coming boutique brands that are making a mark, like Viaje, and as Tatuaje did.

 

[tcampbel]

The state of the cigar industry is intriging to me. With the big Swedish Match and Scandanavian Tobacco merger looking like its going to happen, I wonder how some of those brands are going to flourish. CAO will be under that umbrella, and though I'm not a huge fan of that brand they are moving further and further away from being an independant decision makeing company.


Now we come to the Altadis vs Tatuaje court decision. Yes it was just over "intelectual property." Yes it's just a label, but is it more than that. If Altadis was so upset with the label, why did they not do it years ago? Its going to be a slippery slope with the hopefully drop of the US led embargo on Cuba. The suing of the Cohiba brand was 10 years ago and the non-Cuban brand is still around.


I am getting frustrated at the number of "limited edition" cigars that are being produced. Part of it is that I live in a place that rarely sees any of these and am left to fend online against thousand of other people. But how good are these cigars? Look at the recent Monster release. Pete posted a note on all major forums explaining that the cigars would be better off if removed from the boxes because of the smell of the paint. To me this seems like a hurried oversite on him and his company. A rush to release a product that isn't fully completed. Most if not all have been upset with te recent Tatuaje Tubos. They are cracked, exploding and according to some, just really not that good. It might seem like I'm picking on Tatuaje, but I'm a HUGE fanboy. They are my stick of choice for a few years now. The disappointment also goe sto LFD Salomones. The originals were some great sticks and had a limited wrapper that wasn't available anymore. Well they recently released an inferior second release.


All in all I am worried about the cigar industry in general. When Pepin was small he put out some terrific selections. Now it seems like he is making so many that the quality is decreasing. The same Tats and BLue labels I smoked 3 or 4 years ago aren't nearly the same. I know the cigar industry is a business and intended to make money. But when and where does quality over quantity get justified? Patel is another example. He's producing so many cigars that he is dyeing wrappers. For the love of god just slow production down and make a quality cigar.


There will be new brands with big hype (NUB is a great example) and some that will have little fanfare (Viaje), true cigar lovers will know the difference. And tho we all get suckered into a purchase we regret every onece in a while, we can always bomb some unknowing person with those sticks.


Remember these are just my opinions, and what te hell do I know? But I love what I love, and I hope that the makers of these cigars, take some time and reflect who the true buyers of there product are.

 

[PLUSH]

This was what I was wondering as well, how many of these so called "mom and pop" shops exist and will continue to exist? It seems these companies have to merge in order to survive. this has to be done to survive increases taxes like SCHIP and future risk against the industry as whole.

 

[tcampbel]

It really all depends on who is running the company. I love Don Fransisco cigars. He runs a pretty small operation, but I know that his product is consistent. He is running it as a lover of cigars and the time and effort that goes along with it. There seems to be too many fly by night guys trying to make a buck (Devil's Weed anyone?). It really frustarates me.

 

[L8A]

It really all depends on who is running the company. I love Don Fransisco cigars. He runs a pretty small operation, but I know that his product is consistent. He is running it as a lover of cigars and the time and effort that goes along with it. There seems to be too many fly by night guys trying to make a buck (Devil's Weed anyone?). It really frustarates me.

Is this the Don Francisco you are talking about?

http://www.donfranciscocigars.com/index.html

 

[SkinsFanLarry]

Here's a couple of good sites to look at....IPCPR and Tobacco University

 

[Cyrann]

The state of the cigar industry is intriging to me. With the big Swedish Match and Scandanavian Tobacco merger looking like its going to happen, I wonder how some of those brands are going to flourish. CAO will be under that umbrella, and though I'm not a huge fan of that brand they are moving further and further away from being an independent decision making company.

The CAO side actually owns 51% for the record.

But in regards to the industry as a whole, I think we can expect to see a few more mergers as the anti-tobacco zealots beat our industry to a pulp. It's crazy to see even in the DR (which I just got back from on FRI) the amount of places that you could not smoke (casinos/hotels/etc)... in one of the largest tobacco producing countries on the planet.

Swinging 180 degrees back the US and noticing how retail shops (i.e. mom and pop B&Ms) are turning into glorified window shops. To explain further, a customer will come in and buy 2/3/5 sticks from a B&M and then buy the box online. I'm not saying that I never buy online, but for the past 2 years, I have not(minus NHC, which is a local business for me, plus DAN runs his business far different than most). Without the knowledge and sophistication that a retail environment brings...cigar culture will die a little. It may be hard for some (I understand budget restraints, kids, the recession, and what have you), but for me a $20 difference to support a local business and help my beloved industry is something that makes the wheels turn. It's may not always be that cut and dry or need to happen every purchase, but should be in the back of our minds.

On the positive side, the tobacco culturalists or enthusiasts if you will, are getting younger and younger. It's a pleasure to see this community grow as well as the industry as a whole. Being part of the next generation of ambassadors to cigars and the finer things in life is inspiring and comforting.

I think we have a positive future as an industry, but need to protect it. The only thing that comes to mind for saving the B&M culture in one swipe of the pen is banning online sales from state to state.... NO, I do not want this to happen, but that is the only thing that comes to mind.

Hope that helps you a little PLUSH.

Oh, and about limited editions...

I dig them, it's awesome to me that manufacturers are still having fun with what they do. While some are pricey and hard to get, I would rather see them around then have them go away. I must just be lucky (knock on wood), but I have had no issues with any LE; Tat, Illusione, LFD, Davidoff, etc over the last calendar year... I have been not only impressed with the quality/taste, but also happy/lucky that I was able to score them!

 

[L8A]

Here's acouple of good sites to look at....IPCPR and Tobacco University

Thanks Larry. Good info.

 

[tcampbel]

L8A that is the DF cigars I mentioned. Just waiting for Disney to sue over the similarities in the D in the logo. Thanks for the links Larry.

 

[njstone]

Within a few years we'll see many states adopting laws making it illegal to order tobacco from other states, or taxing said tobacco purchases.

I also think you'll see fewer cigar-only B&Ms, and more situations like Jungle Jims and The Party Source, i.e. stores that sell alcohol or other items that also have a large humidor.

 

[L8A]

Within a few years we'll see many states adopting laws making it illegal to order tobacco from other states, or taxing said tobacco purchases.

I also think you'll see fewer cigar-only B&Ms, and more situations like Jungle Jims and The Party Source, i.e. stores that sell alcohol or other items that also have a large humidor.

That would go back to Cyrann's comments about supporting your local B&M's. I have usually always done as he said and bought single from a local and boxes via the web. With that being said, I have finally found a great B&M that I want to make sure I support and the last 2 boxes I bought were from them. I dont think the states have thought about the wide variance in taxes that are out there on tobacco but I' m sure it won't take them long to figure it out.

 

[njstone]

That would go back to Cyrann's comments about supporting your local B&M's. I have usually always done as he said and bought single from a local and boxes via the web. With that being said, I have finally found a great B&M that I want to make sure I support and the last 2 boxes I bought were from them. I dont think the states have thought about the wide variance in taxes that are out there on tobacco but I' m sure it won't take them long to figure it out.

That's cool. My local ... Well, they're a bunch of jackholes and charge 10-20% above msrp. Other than when I want to smoke there (the only place in town you can), I don't buy from them. When I'm down near Cincy I'll go to those places I mentioned, both of which are great.

 

[L8A]

That's cool. My local ... Well, they're a bunch of jackholes and charge 10-20% above msrp. Other than when I want to smoke there (the only place in town you can), I don't buy from them. When I'm down near Cincy I'll go to those places I mentioned, both of which are great.

Ha Ha Ha Jackholes. That's funny.

 

[28Gauge]

L8A that is the DF cigars I mentioned. Just waiting for Disney to sue over the similarities in the D in the logo. Thanks for the links Larry.

No kidding! That D is VERY Disney like!

 

[Zen Cigar Man]

The CAO side actually owns 51% for the record.

But in regards to the industry as a whole, I think we can expect to see a few more mergers as the anti-tobacco zealots beat our industry to a pulp. It's crazy to see even in the DR (which I just got back from on FRI) the amount of places that you could not smoke (casinos/hotels/etc)... in one of the largest tobacco producing countries on the planet.

Swinging 180 degrees back the US and noticing how retail shops (i.e. mom and pop B&Ms) are turning into glorified window shops. To explain further, a customer will come in and buy 2/3/5 sticks from a B&M and then buy the box online. I'm not saying that I never buy online, but for the past 2 years, I have not(minus NHC, which is a local business for me, plus DAN runs his business far different than most). Without the knowledge and sophistication that a retail environment brings...cigar culture will die a little. It may be hard for some (I understand budget restraints, kids, the recession, and what have you), but for me a $20 difference to support a local business and help my beloved industry is something that makes the wheels turn. It's may not always be that cut and dry or need to happen every purchase, but should be in the back of our minds.

On the positive side, the tobacco culturalists or enthusiasts if you will, are getting younger and younger. It's a pleasure to see this community grow as well as the industry as a whole. Being part of the next generation of ambassadors to cigars and the finer things in life is inspiring and comforting.

I think we have a positive future as an industry, but need to protect it. The only thing that comes to mind for saving the B&M culture in one swipe of the pen is banning online sales from state to state.... NO, I do not want this to happen, but that is the only thing that comes to mind.

Hope that helps you a little PLUSH.

Oh, and about limited editions...

I dig them, it's awesome to me that manufacturers are still having fun with what they do. While some are pricey and hard to get, I would rather see them around then have them go away. I must just be lucky (knock on wood), but I have had no issues with any LE; Tat, Illusione, LFD, Davidoff, etc over the last calendar year... I have been not only impressed with the quality/taste, but also happy/lucky that I was able to score them!

Well said, Matt.

 

[swat253]

to me this seems like a hurried oversite on him and his company. A rush to release a product that isn't fully completed. tcampbel

The irony here is that DEMAND seems to be hurting, or at least influencing, QUALITY. While every maker would love to see his wares being scooped up, there is no way to gauge whether they are making too many or not enough prior to a release. I can see where cigars will vary greatly when demand forces makers to "borrow" aging product from future releases to fulfill current demand. Although you might see it occasionally, suppliers would rarely say "We have no more." or "Wait another 12 months." In this situation, maybe the onus is upon us to acquire the supply at hand and age it to a point where we are satisfied with the end result. In my case, I purchased a few Red Tubos from a BOTL and had it not been for all the posts here, I would have smoked one immediately and stored the rest in the tubes! Thanks to all the experienced BOTLs for their comments, I am aging mine out of the tubes and I expect many positive results in the future.

But to address PLUSH's topic, it appears to me that the industry is seeing positive growth on the consumer side and increased competition on the supplier side. The strong will survive, the meek will go by the wayside; some of the forgotten will be revived, and Big Brother take a bite of it all before it's over...

 

[strife]

If internet sales across state lines were banned I would probably be forced to quit smoking cigars for economic and quality reasons. Either that or I would be forced to buy El Producto's as my everyday smoke and save up for an occasional $15 Rocky Patel. That IMHO is not an option.

 

[SkinsFanLarry]

If internet sales across state lines were banned I would probably be forced to quit smoking cigars for economic and quality reasons. Either that or I would be forced to buy El Producto's as my everyday smoke and save up for an occasional $15 Rocky Patel. That IMHO is not an option.

:youarethe...........................................................................:rofl: