Just saw this info on another site. If you or someone you know, get or have gotten one of these letters send in some ammo :assaultri to fight the good cause. Maybe if enough ppl send info he will see the magnitude of this ofseea B.S. and publish something in CA mag.
Editor of CA wants your help..... Re "the letter"
- Thread starter Mikes
- Start date
I am sure that the Government would just say it is all a part of "Home land security" and that they have every right to do it....they are just protecting the home land you know.....It sounds funny enough but I am not kidding!
eyetek
eyetek
Guys.. this goes back to the fact that cuban cigars are illegal, it is a personal decision, but use this and then make your decision as whether to buy and post, or buy, or not buy at all...
just some food for thought..
just some food for thought..
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
They definitely will but I think there are laws that address the use of "evidence" of a crime (potential trading with the enemy) that was discovered while looking for evidence of another crime (terrorist funding/activity).
ATCDub
Lowly Civil Servant
The patriot act does provide broad sweeping ability for sneeking a peek without a search warrant. However, for the most part the only information that I've gleened from any content of letters that I've seen is a blatant fishing expedition. A RFI is a basic invitation to incriminate yourself and as long as the 5th amendment is still intact, my response will be "I don't know what you're talking about".
Edit "Opinions expressed by Dub are not necessarily those of anybody else. Please don't blame BoTL if he's out in left field"
Edit "Opinions expressed by Dub are not necessarily those of anybody else. Please don't blame BoTL if he's out in left field"
Greg
BoM October 2006
The Patriot Act is illegal and will be repealed. It wholeheartedly defies our constitution, to the core!
Todd is right, these searches are against the law; this is America and you just can't do it. Even if the suspected ARE guilty.
I can pull up tons of literature to support this, but to sum it up: The government cannot pry into the privacy of its citizens to establish their possible role into suspected illegal activity without a warrant.
This is a MAJOR foundation of our judicial system, as well as our constitution, and I believe once more and more of these cases are publicized, rather than being settled with fines, we just may here from Constitutional defense attorneys before the Supreme Court..
And I know I haven't said anything new, I'm just yodeling out loud.
Todd is right, these searches are against the law; this is America and you just can't do it. Even if the suspected ARE guilty.
I can pull up tons of literature to support this, but to sum it up: The government cannot pry into the privacy of its citizens to establish their possible role into suspected illegal activity without a warrant.
This is a MAJOR foundation of our judicial system, as well as our constitution, and I believe once more and more of these cases are publicized, rather than being settled with fines, we just may here from Constitutional defense attorneys before the Supreme Court..
And I know I haven't said anything new, I'm just yodeling out loud.
smokem94
BoM Sept. 05
Right on....my sentiments exactly!
Fredneck...sorry dude but I disagree with you on the Patriot Act....has ABSOLUTLEY nothing to do with this subject.
Greg
BoM October 2006
I was under the impression that the gov't was using this provision as means to access our banking records. :dunno:
The government dosen't need the Patriot Act to access your bank records, they just need probable cause. Right now the PA is not illegal, and it ain't even the problem. The bad guys here are PayP and a CC processing company and OFAC. OFAC has been invented to steamroll your individual rights, in the name of protecting the same.
Toby4 is right on, "if you bought cuban anything, anywhere, you broke the law if your a citizen of the US. You got game? So do they brother, so do they. Everyone knows the rules and if you get caught, think of it as a sur-charge or a luxury item tax or keep on buying those Fuentes.
There are volumes of material on the VCC board about "The Letter" &The New Letter etc. etc. etc. for your edification and eduction.
Toby4 is right on, "if you bought cuban anything, anywhere, you broke the law if your a citizen of the US. You got game? So do they brother, so do they. Everyone knows the rules and if you get caught, think of it as a sur-charge or a luxury item tax or keep on buying those Fuentes.
There are volumes of material on the VCC board about "The Letter" &The New Letter etc. etc. etc. for your edification and eduction.
Not to disagree for the sake of disagreeing (because I agree with most of what you said), but i think that the office of foreign assets control has been around for a while (even before the emabrgo) and wasn't invented to steamroll rights. OFAC was organized to maintain sanctions, and eventually to track activities with foreign nationals and entities as associated with terrorism, money laundering, and drug trafficking among other things. The problem is not OFAC or the PATRIOT Act, it is the embargo - and it certainly is a problem, but that's just an opinion.
I completely agree with everyone that accepting this as a possible consequence is just table stakes if you want to "trade with the enemy". If anyone is interested, you can go onto the treasury site and reference updated lists of actions taken against those who are found to be in violation of the embargo.
Edit: If I was in possesion of one of those letters, I think the only person that I would share it with is my lawyer. While they may just be fishing, I don't think that sending the letter to the editor of a well known cigar magazine for their use would be at the top of my list of intelligent things to do. Maybe I'm just paranoid...
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
Let me just throw this out there right now.
Please, please, do not post here stating things that you feel are right or heard are right as facts.
If you do not know for certain, and can back it up, what you are posting is an absolute truth and fact please make sure you indicate it is your opinion or that you are not sure if it is accurate.
We need to make sure we are not spreading inaccurate information here.
Personally I don't know if any of it is legal or not but I do think there are laws protecting people from this.
IMO, unless the records they have in hand were acquired solely to find violations of the "Trading with the Enemy Act" then I have a hard time believing that it is legal for them to use any info garnered to try and find terrorist activities for anything but that.
Please, please, do not post here stating things that you feel are right or heard are right as facts.
If you do not know for certain, and can back it up, what you are posting is an absolute truth and fact please make sure you indicate it is your opinion or that you are not sure if it is accurate.
We need to make sure we are not spreading inaccurate information here.
Personally I don't know if any of it is legal or not but I do think there are laws protecting people from this.
IMO, unless the records they have in hand were acquired solely to find violations of the "Trading with the Enemy Act" then I have a hard time believing that it is legal for them to use any info garnered to try and find terrorist activities for anything but that.
I agree with you on everything with the possible exception being OFAC's purpose and how they operate "now". Just subjecture on my part. I especially agree with your edit.
BradMc
<b>Charity Liaison</b><br>BoM September 07
Well my boss's know that I do like fine Cigars, and they know that a cuban cigar is what we cigars smokers want. They took me aside the other day and asked or told me, we hope u r not having "THOSE Cigars" sent to the Office......I just looked at them and said WTF do u think, I then said I'll have all mine sent to your house, and let me know when they show up, Then I walked off, now just because I'm a Gov. employee they were worryed....