Educate me about ammo...

[Zmilin]

So now that I have taken possession of my pistol and after purchasing some ammo for self defense I have questions. Ive been on youtube, the forums and reading a lot but I value the opinion of my fellow BOTL so here goes...

At the range I've been using Federal, 9mm, 115g, FMJ, RTP9115 (white box). As i understand it this all translates into 9mm with 115grains of powder weight, full metal jacket, range target practice ammo. Its affordable and I don't know any better because this is what the range sells me when i use their rental guns. Now that I have my own I ended up buying a case (1000 rounds) because it was cheaper.

The day I picked up my pistol I purchased Speer Gold Dot, Personal Protection, 9mm, 147g, GDHP. Translation to 9mm, 147 grans of powder weight, Gold Dot Hollow Point. I was recommended this and one other and took the overall recommendation on this one because I don't know any better. I do know that my buddy whose wife is LE uses this at home.

I was asking about the RIP ammo because in my head it made sense that it would break apart and stop the intruder and in the case of a miss it would possible break apart and not make it through a wall with as much force as a HP/FMJ round BUT then was told that in a court of law that could create an issue because of the verbiage used. Personal Defense vs RIP. Hmmm... I never even thought of that.

So... some questions that have come up...
- Range ammo - should I continue using the Federal 115 grain for practice or move up to a 147 grain since thats what will be shot in case of self defense? Im asking this based on grain weight but does anything else play into this? I shot a few of the 147 grain and they felt easier to shoot.
- Self Defense ammo - any feedback? I live in a condo so I know I need to be aware of stray round if I miss. Maybe a lighter grain weight?
- Longevity - how long should I keep the self defense ammo before I swap it out? Does it expire? Become less effective? etc...

If you have any links to good info Id love to have it.

Thanks

 

[JZBdano]

The grain weight printed on the box is the weight of the projectile (bullet). In general the heavier the bullet the more energy it can carry down range. The type of bullet determines how that energy is dispersed. I bullet with a thin or semi jacket ie jacketed hollow points expand very quickly on a soft target (drywall, wood, pig carcas...). FMJ bullets hold their shape much better and can penetrate I wouldn't worry too much about the courts interpretation of the bullet used. You can justify your choice of ammo by the surroundings. What I mean is you need to chose the best ammo for your situation you don't chose it because of its name. They will all kill about the same and you have several rounds at your disposal so multiply the kill potential by 10 or so. I know there are a few company's selling frangible bullet ammo that is made specifically for people that are concerned with projectiles penetrating walls or doors with enough energy left to kill what's on the other side. I believe Hornady TAP is one of them.
Chose cheap ammo for the range as long as it performs well in your gun. Some is dirtier than others, but that's a minor concern of mine.
Ammo will last decades of stored in a relatively cool dry place.

 

[mwlabel]

Cheap ammo for practice. Reloading is good if you shoot enough.

Bonded hollowpoints for carry ammo. For most of those options, both the 147 standard pressure and 124+p loads are good to go. Anybody trying to sell you on items like RIP, pow'r'ball, hydra-shok, etc etc is either a sneak or an idiot. Bonded hollow points. End of story.
HST, Ranger, and Gold Dots are all fine starting points.
This thread has good info: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

I would try to cycle out carry/defense ammo once or twice a year. I've had the same mag in my carry gun for about a year now, and I'm noticing a tiny bit of corrosion around the primers... should have swapped it sooner. Ammo that isn't in storage is subject to humidity, sweat, temperature swings, etc etc.

 

[ScoutReconSGT]

Experiment with various ammo and figure out what patterns best with your weapon for the cost. Consistency is your goal. Nothing happens overnight, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. I wouldn't get funky with the specifics unless you plan to reload someday, in which case make sure it's a brass casing.

Home defense situations you will be nervous as hell and your accuracy will diminish greatly unless you have training in high stress/ violent situations.

Like previously stated all rounds for a 9mm are sufficient in home defense.

All in all safety and knowledge of your firearm and ammunition is key. Honestly I don't worry about grains and such untill I find an animal and environment I need to hunt.

 

[THEMISCHMAN]

Some ammo is obviously better than others but there is no substitute for well placed shots. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. Practice, practice, practice.


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[ChuckMejia]

Claymores for home defense no prob

 

[THEMISCHMAN]

This


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[ElectricMayhem82]

When it comes to range time....shoot what is cheap. The one caveat is I'm not a fan of shooting steel cased ammo through any of my guns. Glocks are suppose to be fine with it, but I'd error on the side of caution if it were my gun. And be aware of some of the Eastern European/Russian and Mexican ammo; it could be corrosive powder still (not likely in pistol calipers,but a chance). Just make sure to clean your pistol as soon as you get home, which is good policy anyways.

As for your defensive ammo, don't worry about switching out between your carry ammo and home defense ammo. Use one your gun likes and stick with it. Anything in the 147-grain jacketed hollow point from a good company will do. Federal Hydrashok, Winchester Ranger, anything marked defense from Hornady is a good place to start. Those aren't the only ones on the market, but are easy to find. I'm a big fan of Hornady Critical Defense Low-Recoil for my .38 snubbie ultra-lightweight. For my autos I have carry Hornady Critical Defense +P or TAP (which isn't as common anymore). The one thing in common with all these, as someone mentioned, is they're all bonded or semi-bonded jacketed hollow-points. JHP for short.

One thing to remember is that your defense ammo is going to recoil harder. At the range, I always like to run a few defensive ammo mags through my personal defense guns just to practice with the added recoil. It can be expensive as a lot of the premium ammo will be $1 or more a round. Spend the money, there is a big difference in felt recoil. If you're recoil shy, stay away from anything marked +P. There is going to be a slight increase in recoil and more flash in low-light which could cause some problems. How much do, I'm not sure and I don't think it matters a whole bunch. If you chose 9mm, you should be fine. Muzzle flash is only a problem really for .40 SW, 10 mm, or magnum revolvers.


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[Zmilin]

Some ammo is obviously better than others but there is no substitute for well placed shots. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. Practice, practice, practice.


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I shot 375 rounds today...

 

[Zmilin]

Claymores for home defense no prob

Bro! WTF!

 

[manbearpig]

Lots of good advice here. My suggestion is the buy a few boxes of your chosen defense ammo. Then run a box through your gun. First to make sure it runs smoothly in your gun with no jams or failure to feed. Also this is a good way to experience the added recoil you will encounter when firing your defense ammo.

I personally prefer the Hornady critical duty for the fact that they have sealed primers and this gives me the confidence to carry the ammo much longer. This helps to keep moisture (sweat) from getting to the powder for longer periods of time.

 

[bl18211]

I second the motion of Normandy critical defense or duty. Great stuff


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[bl18211]

So now that I have taken possession of my pistol and after purchasing some ammo for self defense I have questions. Ive been on youtube, the forums and reading a lot but I value the opinion of my fellow BOTL so here goes...

At the range I've been using Federal, 9mm, 115g, FMJ, RTP9115 (white box). As i understand it this all translates into 9mm with 115grains of powder weight, full metal jacket, range target practice ammo. Its affordable and I don't know any better because this is what the range sells me when i use their rental guns. Now that I have my own I ended up buying a case (1000 rounds) because it was cheaper.

The day I picked up my pistol I purchased Speer Gold Dot, Personal Protection, 9mm, 147g, GDHP. Translation to 9mm, 147 grans of powder weight, Gold Dot Hollow Point. I was recommended this and one other and took the overall recommendation on this one because I don't know any better. I do know that my buddy whose wife is LE uses this at home.

I was asking about the RIP ammo because in my head it made sense that it would break apart and stop the intruder and in the case of a miss it would possible break apart and not make it through a wall with as much force as a HP/FMJ round BUT then was told that in a court of law that could create an issue because of the verbiage used. Personal Defense vs RIP. Hmmm... I never even thought of that.

So... some questions that have come up...
- Range ammo - should I continue using the Federal 115 grain for practice or move up to a 147 grain since thats what will be shot in case of self defense? Im asking this based on grain weight but does anything else play into this? I shot a few of the 147 grain and they felt easier to shoot.
- Self Defense ammo - any feedback? I live in a condo so I know I need to be aware of stray round if I miss. Maybe a lighter grain weight?
- Longevity - how long should I keep the self defense ammo before I swap it out? Does it expire? Become less effective? etc...

If you have any links to good info Id love to have it.

Thanks

Careful with the RIP ammo... Expensive and not reliable in all guns. Many feeding issues, wouldn't be my first choice for my carry. Great videos and great theory, but in my opinion not practical. Also, it's not frangible, just because it breaks up it will likely still pose a danger by going through walls.


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[DRed409]

The marketing gimmick ammo is so so at best (at least from what I have heard).

The nightstand gun (G19) gets +p 147gr gold gots.

The out and about gun (Kimber Ultra Raptor) gets 235 Federal HSTs.

I think I like the HST more than the gold dot... I just haven't had a reason to swap them out. Whichever is more available in your area is GTG... Remington Golden Sabors should also be on this list.

 

[ZippoGeek]

When I was a LEO, I shot the cheap, lighter .45 stuff for practice (CCI range ammo was provided by my agency in bulk). But I always finished my range sessions with at least a box of Federal Hydra-Shok +P+ to acclimate myself to the hotter round.

And I concur with @THEMISCHMAN -- shot placement is everything in deadly force encounters.

 

[Gunslinger]

One thing to remember is that your defense ammo is going to recoil harder. At the range, I always like to run a few defensive ammo mags through my personal defense guns just to practice with the added recoil. It can be expensive as a lot of the premium ammo will be $1 or more a round. Spend the money, there is a big difference in felt recoil. If you're recoil shy, stay away from anything marked +P. There is going to be a slight increase in recoil and more flash in low-light which could cause some problems. How much do, I'm not sure and I don't think it matters a whole bunch. If you chose 9mm, you should be fine. Muzzle flash is only a problem really for .40 SW, 10 mm, or magnum revolvers.

Yes and no.

Defensive ammo could recoil more, but it depends on some variables like powder burn rate. A high velocity, light weight bullet might have MORE recoil than a heavier weight load because you're pushing it at a higher velocity to make up for it's lower mass. If the cartridge has a fast burning propellant, the recoil should hit quick. Where a slow burning powder isn't generating as much force, so it feels like softer recoil. So just because a round has a higher weight doesn't mean greater recoil.

And if you stick with the common service calibers, 9mm, .40, .45 the muzzle flash with defensive ammo is negligible. .357 Sig can be a bit worse than the others, but all the big name ammo guys use low flash powders and are pretty good. Now having something in a hand loaded 10mm, Magnum or .50 DE....yeah, you gon' be blind lol. But I've used .40 S&W for the last 6 years (recently started more with 9mm tho due to breaking my hand last year), and my X300 is usually the brightest thing on the muzzle end of my gun in night shoots.

As for the other questions, try to swap out your defensive ammo yearly. Even in a drier climate, you don't want atmospheric conditions to be the difference between a "click" and a "bang". You don't have to have a stockpile of 500 rounds put away, but in my case, I usually keep enough to swap out a complete duty load. I carry 61 rounds on duty between 4 mags, so I take the old stuff out and put it away for a "range day" or for my qualifications (as we have to have duty rounds in part of our 2x a year quals). Yes it can get pricey, but in your case you could have 100 rounds of which 15-17 would be "in use". That gives you 85 ready to shoot/cycle thru training throughout the year. That ammo also only cost you about $30 or so, so while you learn it's not a bad investment up until your own skills or weapon collection grows and can justify more ammo.

As for a "missed shot" within a condo...depends on it's construction. If you're shooting towards an interior space, your round will probably continue to be lethal into a second room maybe a third. If you're shooting at an adjoining wall that is built like your average interior wall....see previous statement. If you're shooting towards an adjoining wall or exterior wall that's built with brick or concrete masonry unit (cinder block), you've got some protection. A lighter weight, super fast round (like a frangible) is designed for this situation....HOWEVER, it is not recommended for defensive purposes due to it's inability to perform against denim and heavy clothing reliably.

Stick with Speer Gold Dots, Winchester Rangers, Federal HST, Remington (I can't remember their new defense name, but the Golden Saber is still around....). Personally, I don't buy into Hornady's Critical Defense/Duty but I know several who have (I'll use their rifle ammo all day, but their pistol ammo hasn't made me switch from HST or Gold Dots). See how your gun likes it with at least 200 problem free rounds, then build up your skill and collection.

 

[mwlabel]

Yes and no.

Defensive ammo could recoil more, but it depends on some variables like powder burn rate. A high velocity, light weight bullet might have MORE recoil than a heavier weight load because you're pushing it at a higher velocity to make up for it's lower mass. If the cartridge has a fast burning propellant, the recoil should hit quick. Where a slow burning powder isn't generating as much force, so it feels like softer recoil. So just because a round has a higher weight doesn't mean greater recoil.

And if you stick with the common service calibers, 9mm, .40, .45 the muzzle flash with defensive ammo is negligible. .357 Sig can be a bit worse than the others, but all the big name ammo guys use low flash powders and are pretty good. Now having something in a hand loaded 10mm, Magnum or .50 DE....yeah, you gon' be blind lol. But I've used .40 S&W for the last 6 years (recently started more with 9mm tho due to breaking my hand last year), and my X300 is usually the brightest thing on the muzzle end of my gun in night shoots.

As for the other questions, try to swap out your defensive ammo yearly. Even in a drier climate, you don't want atmospheric conditions to be the difference between a "click" and a "bang". You don't have to have a stockpile of 500 rounds put away, but in my case, I usually keep enough to swap out a complete duty load. I carry 61 rounds on duty between 4 mags, so I take the old stuff out and put it away for a "range day" or for my qualifications (as we have to have duty rounds in part of our 2x a year quals). Yes it can get pricey, but in your case you could have 100 rounds of which 15-17 would be "in use". That gives you 85 ready to shoot/cycle thru training throughout the year. That ammo also only cost you about $30 or so, so while you learn it's not a bad investment up until your own skills or weapon collection grows and can justify more ammo.

As for a "missed shot" within a condo...depends on it's construction. If you're shooting towards an interior space, your round will probably continue to be lethal into a second room maybe a third. If you're shooting at an adjoining wall that is built like your average interior wall....see previous statement. If you're shooting towards an adjoining wall or exterior wall that's built with brick or concrete masonry unit (cinder block), you've got some protection. A lighter weight, super fast round (like a frangible) is designed for this situation....HOWEVER, it is not recommended for defensive purposes due to it's inability to perform against denim and heavy clothing reliably.

Stick with Speer Gold Dots, Winchester Rangers, Federal HST, Remington (I can't remember their new defense name, but the Golden Saber is still around....). Personally, I don't buy into Hornady's Critical Defense/Duty but I know several who have (I'll use their rifle ammo all day, but their pistol ammo hasn't made me switch from HST or Gold Dots). See how your gun likes it with at least 200 problem free rounds, then build up your skill and collection.

YAY! Another well-versed gun owner and shooter. I feel a little less alone now.

 

[Gunslinger]

Thanks! Not that it's in my name or anything...lol.

It's definitely a fun and expensive hobby! I can't wait for another year or so and I can start my own son on his path. But being a LEO, it's a tool I have to rely on. And if I can help educate someone on it's proper use, handling and further the shooting sports experience and enjoyment for others...that's what it's all about brother!.

 

[Swanny]

Billy birdzell on YouTube has some very knowledgeable videos on self defense ammunition. I tend to stick with corbon dpx 115gr, and HST 124gr in a g19 for my daily carry and hornady tap in my home defense rifle

 

[HUPLVR]

Came across this thread ( i realize that it's a little old), but great tip for preserving your higher $ defensive ammo is to use the wife's "food saver" and vacuum seal the boxes of ammo. Get a roll of the pleated bags and you'll be surprised how much it can hold. This will preserve it indefinitely, so when you do come across a good deal for a bulk amt of your preferred defensive ammo, you can snap it up and vacuum seal it.