Ethics of overseas contracting...

[Texas Cop]

The Army still doesn't know what to do with me, as my issues have not all been resolved yet, and I'm coming up on 7 months in treatment now...So I've started exploring my options just in case...I have an opportunity to go back to Houston, and sign on with a PD I had a pplied for in the past, or I have the option to do some contracting work overseas..I've been talking with, and had an offer from one of the larger companies, as well as two lesser known ones..They like me because I've got an LE background along with my military and medical training..Anyways...What are you thoughts on overseas contracting (tactical, not construction/re-construction)? I have been thinking long and hard on at, and while it can been looked at as profiteering, almost mercenary like ( I do understand the difference between contractors and mercenaries, and while there is a line, it is pretty fine, and leaves a bit of gray area in my opinon)..Contractors do enjoy SOFA protection in most of the countries they work in, and contracting is recognized by the Geneva Convention as acceptable, so long as they (tactical contractors) don't over-step their bounds, and cross the line between security contractor/consultant, and active combatant...

What I'm not really sure about, as I said, are the ethics of the matter. I'd be seperating from the Army with my obligations completely fulfilled (if they choose to go that route), and would be accepting a knew set of obligations to the company, and my principals....But I would be taking money ( a lot more money than the Army is giving me) to provide a service that the govt. trained me to do, and charging (well, I wouldn't be charging, but the company would) them out the yang for it...Most guys hold the opinion, I did it in the (Army, Navy, MC, AF, w/e) for so little pay, that I am owed this extra pay..I disagree...But I digress, it's not that I have a problem with the pay...I just can't get over the 'mercenary' feel of the whole thing...And it is definately worse within certain companies...I mean, some of these guys act like it's the old west over there, and they are Wyatt Erp or some shit like that..

Any thoughts?
drew

 

[Fox]

Assuming of course that you recognize the danger to yourself and your family, I say go for it. I have no problem with contractors or mercenaries; never have. I have known a bunch of them from Vietnam, Israel, Africa, Iraq and Afghanistan. I have never understood why fighting for money should be any different than fighting for country/cause. You have a valuable skill that is highly marketable at this point in time. War is a way of life among homo sapiens and it will always be so.

I was always a strong supporter of Executive Outcomes, which scared the hell out of the U.N. and weak European governments. Had they been allowed to grow and mature in their original form, the world would be a better place because of them. Rwanda is a case in point.

 

[caudio51]

From a family stand point it makes a lot of sense to become a Police Officer with good benefits and stay in the states.

 

[Texas Cop]

EO did some great things for Africa, that is for certain...It might (big might) not be in as bad a shape as it is right now if EO was not broken up, and allowed to continue their work there...

The danger, when working private, can be argued to be less than while over there with mother Army..It is also softer on the family life, the company I am seriously considering does 1 year contracts, 90 days in county, 30 days home, airfare paid each way..


drew

 

[Texas Cop]

From a family stand point it makes a lot of sense to become a Police Officer with good benefits and stay in the states.

Also a valid point that I have been fighting with..



drew

 

[Fox]

EO did some great things for Africa, that is for certain...It might (big might) not be in as bad a shape as it is right now if EO was not broken up, and allowed to continue their work there...

Drew, I do not believe there is any "might" involved. Citing Rwanda again, it is well known that EO offered to resolve the Rwanda situation for I believe, $150 million dollars, U.S. The U.N., being terrified of the thought of a strong, private, mercenary force, refused. Of course, the rest is history: 800,000 dead, over $1 Billion spent by the U.N. and the killing only stopped when Tutsi rebels from neighboring countries finally stopped the Hutu slaughter. This one was the classic case of the west looking away when an easy and effective solution was in sight, all in the name of being politically correct.

The danger, when working private, can be argued to be less than while over there with mother Army..It is also softer on the family life, the company I am seriously considering does 1 year contracts, 90 days in county, 30 days home, airfare paid each way..

drew

Most of the guys I have know have the same benefits that you mention here. The draw for them, mostly Marines and high-speed guys, has been getting a financial head start in life for they and their families upon discharge. For them the risk has been warranted. Most have been able to purchase their first home. Some have paid cash. Yes, it was hard on their families for a time, some of which did not remain intact.

 

[tobby4]

Drew -

I know a couple of guys that have been over there since early 2002 doing contract work... One of them has made a TON of money.. yes his life is on the line just as much as it was when he was a S.E.A.L but he feels that there is a different benefit to being over there as a contractor... then again, he has no immediate family of his own and is a one that thinks he is a "bad-ass"... granted I would not F with him but you know what i mean...

I think you have to sit down and look at your options considering your family and alll that...

 

[Texas Cop]

Most of the guys I have know have the same benefits that you mention here. The draw for them, mostly Marines and high-speed guys, has been getting a financial head start in life for they and their families upon discharge. For them the risk has been warranted. Most have been able to purchase their first home. Some have paid cash. Yes, it was hard on their families for a time, some of which did not remain intact.

That is pretty much my thinking...This would not be permanent, by any means..I would work maybe 5 years at this....That would allow me to save a TON of money up, buy a house for the family, and give us enough money to live on while I came home, went back to school on my MGIB, and still have quite a bit to put away in savings..It just seems like too good of an opportunity to do really GREAT things for my family, that I'd have a hard time passing it up....Assuming our spending habbits don't change drastically during those 5 years, I would be able to bank approx. $600,000....I could finally buy my wife a house, and we'd have a good sized chunk saved up for a rainy day and retirement...



drew

 

[Texas Cop]

As far as EO...Yes, the could have handled Rwanda quickly, and with minimal loss of life, and then moved on...Probably handled the Darfur region, Somalia, etc. Africa is in shambles right now, and I seriously doubt a recovery any time in the near future. A buddy of mine is over there somewhere, with a unit out of Ft. Riley, and the things he's told me...It is just completely f--ked...

Blackwater is making some noise about forming an organization along the lines of EO, and filling the gap they left...They are trying to get permission to do much the same thing EO wanted to do in Africa, and I would like to see it happnen.


drew

 

[cvm4]

Tough situation there Drew. If there was no family involved then I'd do it in a heartbeat. Time to weigh the pros and cons bro.

 

[Texas Cop]

As far as family is concerned, in some regards it is a better situation that I have been in with mother Army in the past...I'd only be gone for 90 day stretches, and home for 30 in between each...The death benefits, should something happen, are a little better than what the Army would give..The main thing I keep coming back to is the money, and how much I could do for my family...PSD work is quite lucrative right now..



drew

 

[Wasch_24]

I think the simple fact you are struggling with the decision means you should NOT do it.

If you are hesitating then there is a reason for the hesitation and it is likely not the right thing for you to be doing.

 

[Texas Cop]

It's not so much a hesitation, just weighing out all the options, but I do understand what you are saying, and have thought myself, that if I've had to think so much about doing it, I probably shouldn't...Not at this time anyways..But again, this is all hypothetical...Because the Army still has no idea what they are going to do with me...


drew

 

[Fox]

I think the simple fact you are struggling with the decision means you should NOT do it.

If you are hesitating then there is a reason for the hesitation and it is likely not the right thing for you to be doing.

Sorry, Todd, but I must respectfully disagree. Some of the toughest decisions in my life have come from just such a struggle. Just because it is a stuggle does not mean it is the wrong decision. Each has its merits, risks and rewards. Hesitation comes from careful analysis of the details and the worth of a course of action. It often takes time to come to terms with the risk/reward equation.

 

[Wasch_24]

I understand that. Mine was not a blanket statement but knowing a little of what Andrew has done in the Army and the nature of the work he is considering I have a pretty good idea as to why he maybe struggling with the decision.

Besides, getting into that line of "work" should not be a tough decision per se...it's not like deciding between pediatrics or family practice. This is quite literally a life or death decision and should not be taken lightly. It is something you better WANT to do and WANT to do with all of your heart...one's life will depend on the ability to be decisive and if you can't be decisive with this then there is a long uphill struggle ahead.

I can understand indecisiveness in, oh, say moving your family from Virginia to Nebraska. Making the decision to put your life on the line should not require such deliberation IMO...either you want to or you don't. If he is hesitating with this decision then how will he handle deciding which source of intel to believe or which dark corner to turn down?

All I am saying is being a contracted soldier is not something that should be taken lightly and IMO isn't a decision at all either you really want it or you don't. If one really wants it then the struggle should be how do I make it work not should I even do it.

Just my opinion though. :thumbsup:

 

[ezrider]

I sould suggest you Pray about this ..in hope God will give you the direction for you and your family........God, Family and then Country

Peace&Grace

 

[DocLogic77]

This is a tough decision. I know from personal experience that
being away from the family for work is a HUGE stressor on a marriage
and on your relationship with your children. But, finances can also be a huge stressor. Run with your heart on this one.

 

[CWS]

Wow. You do come up with the twisters. Depends on your family and what you LIKE to do. From personal experience, every time I followed the money it was great for a while and then the luster faded. I try to now do what I want to and like to do. The money followed very soon. You seem like someone with a good head on their shoulders. There are many good people out there to talk to about career planning and direction. If this is it great. If not, find something that will make you and the family happy.

I have never been in a job that put me harms way other than many moons ago as a deputy sheriff and then only by launching off cliffs to rescue idiots. I have traveled and been situated away from wife and family for years at a time. I look back and still say it was not worth it to miss all the things I did for a large amount of money. The trade wasn't worth it. HIndsite is great stuff for someone my age. I like the prayer idea. Good luck.