What are everyones thoughts on brands that are only found online - not cigarsinternational.com or the other big sites but the actual brand site and/or specialty online sites like newhavanacigars.com? Would you support that brand if they were only online and not in the B&M's? I am a little torn as I want to (and do) support my favorite B&M's but also feel like they do not give the smaller boutique brands a shot at some shelf space that would be interesting to try - I understand its business and they need to carry a product they can turnover. Also, pricing is a factor as well. When you think about it, by the time a consumer purchases a cigar from a B&M, the the price is approx. 3x-4x what it costs to make (or 2x the wholesale price). Can a B&M presence and specialty online sales presence successfully co-exist?
New Cigar Brand - Online Only or B&M?
- Thread starter perezam
- Start date
or grossly overcharges, my closest B&M wants 9.50 for perdomo lot 23 maddy. I buy a stick or two when i go in but never a lot 23. I know it's tought to compete but sometimes you got to buy online.
The answer is yes.
There will always be those boutique cigar brands that are out of the B&M's reach. I've gone to my B&M for those small batch brands from the internet before. While hesitating, they went ahead and suggested going to the website and explained why. Some cigars are just a compound pain in the ass for them to get. And, if they can score the smokes, there is still a huge delay getting them. I knew they weren't just putting me on the back burner. Last box I bought online(PIO Ressurections), I shared couple with the tobacconists.
You won't hurt anybody's feelings, especially when you have made it evident that you are an avid supporter of your B&M.
There will always be those boutique cigar brands that are out of the B&M's reach. I've gone to my B&M for those small batch brands from the internet before. While hesitating, they went ahead and suggested going to the website and explained why. Some cigars are just a compound pain in the ass for them to get. And, if they can score the smokes, there is still a huge delay getting them. I knew they weren't just putting me on the back burner. Last box I bought online(PIO Ressurections), I shared couple with the tobacconists.
You won't hurt anybody's feelings, especially when you have made it evident that you are an avid supporter of your B&M.
I don't think it has anything to do with how hard it is for the B&M's to get certain brands. There are quite a few brands out there that don't discriminate or even cater to B&M's more than large online stores. Some brands are actually B&M only (Casa Magna being a good example). The issue is that B&M's only have so much shelf space so they can't carry every single shape and line of every single brand like an online store can. Good tobacconists know what most of their customers will like, so they carry those brands. That isn't going to include every brand under the sun. (I've never heard of PIO, personally).
The LE and single shop releases are a different animal. The manufacturers like to reward the customers that make them the most money and those are almost always online stores because they can have so many more customers. Smaller B&M only shops get love too from time to time.
No one is going to care if you buy online. I try to only buy online if I can't get that stick at my B&M or the seller isn't making much money off of me. I don't smoke very many outside cigars at my B&M and I always buy something when I come in. Numerous people have been banned because they come in, sit around, smoke and drink free coffee and never buy any cigars.
Edit: For the OP's original question, I don't know that a brand would work if they only sold direct to the consumer on the internet. There is a huge contingent of smokers that don't buy online. I wouldn't have a problem with it, I just don't know that it would work very well. I don't really know of any brands that are only found online that aren't house brands or "seconds" at the huge online retailers...
The LE and single shop releases are a different animal. The manufacturers like to reward the customers that make them the most money and those are almost always online stores because they can have so many more customers. Smaller B&M only shops get love too from time to time.
No one is going to care if you buy online. I try to only buy online if I can't get that stick at my B&M or the seller isn't making much money off of me. I don't smoke very many outside cigars at my B&M and I always buy something when I come in. Numerous people have been banned because they come in, sit around, smoke and drink free coffee and never buy any cigars.
Edit: For the OP's original question, I don't know that a brand would work if they only sold direct to the consumer on the internet. There is a huge contingent of smokers that don't buy online. I wouldn't have a problem with it, I just don't know that it would work very well. I don't really know of any brands that are only found online that aren't house brands or "seconds" at the huge online retailers...
orangedog
Navin R Johnson
the epic debate of cigar debates imho...
I've found that regular (although not necessarily overly-often) visits to my B&M results in benefits that would not necessarily be found online (although sometimes they are)... such as free sticks and other schwag... holding targeted boxes aside or supplying boxes that they may have that are unique. plus having a nice place to hang out. those are all part of the "value" that is in the price of the cigar (and the dang taxes) when buying at a B&M.
If my B&M doesn't have it or if their prices are way outside market, I have no qualms buying online.
I've found that regular (although not necessarily overly-often) visits to my B&M results in benefits that would not necessarily be found online (although sometimes they are)... such as free sticks and other schwag... holding targeted boxes aside or supplying boxes that they may have that are unique. plus having a nice place to hang out. those are all part of the "value" that is in the price of the cigar (and the dang taxes) when buying at a B&M.
If my B&M doesn't have it or if their prices are way outside market, I have no qualms buying online.
I definitely agree, well said.
Although narrowed down to only a couple of experiences, most of what I mentioned ties in with your 3rd paragraph. With the exception of maybe 2 or 3 brands, everything I smoke is off the the shelves of my local B&M. I just can't imagine someone that would have the gumption to enter a shop, and make themselves at home without purchasing a single cigar. I've never seen anyone actually do that, but I know it happens.
I support my local B&M as much as possible, but have no qualms with buying online also. If I'm just looking for a few singles, or new releases I want to "try it before I buy it" I always buy from my B&M. Also on larger purchases, if my B&M carries the cigar, and they are price competitive (within a buck on singles, or $15-20 on boxes) I will buy from them. However if it's a marca/vitola they don't carry, or I can get a significant savings online, then I will purchase online. I would probably estimate that 75% of my purchases are done at my B&M.
I live in a high tax state, 46% over MSRP, so I rarely buy at a B&M. If I am going to sit in a lounge and smoke, then of course I'll buy something from their selection. For me, I support your local B&M by buying cigars from bothers on sites like this one.
stephen_hannibal
stephen_hannibal
I only ever buy at my b&m if it's a rare smoke or I want to sit in the lounge.
Other than that I have no interest in paying high state taxes.
Other than that I have no interest in paying high state taxes.
It all comes down to cost for me....
When a manufacturer limits a stick to a B&M, for me, all they are doing is ensuring that I will not be able to buy it. The nearest B&M from me is 50 miles away. I have bought a lot there but the premium paid does not offer me anything. No real lounge, and no alcohol.
When you support the B&M you should be getting something more than just a cigar for your money. If you live far away like many people do then that is a hard thing to accomplish...
For the most part I feel online sales really only hurt B&M that do not provide anything for the premium you pay. (there are exception but...) Just look at places like Casa De Montecristo make mint because of what the offer you for your money.
When a manufacturer limits a stick to a B&M, for me, all they are doing is ensuring that I will not be able to buy it. The nearest B&M from me is 50 miles away. I have bought a lot there but the premium paid does not offer me anything. No real lounge, and no alcohol.
When you support the B&M you should be getting something more than just a cigar for your money. If you live far away like many people do then that is a hard thing to accomplish...
For the most part I feel online sales really only hurt B&M that do not provide anything for the premium you pay. (there are exception but...) Just look at places like Casa De Montecristo make mint because of what the offer you for your money.
danthebugman
BoM Nov '10
If you like going to your B&M and you want to support them, ask if they can carry that brand...even if just on a trial basis (probably have more luck with this if you're a regular and know the owner). Chances are there are other people that might like them and buy them also. If not, then you should have no problem buying online. I personally don't buy much from my local because of the conditions I find many of the cigars in and the staff isn't really that knowledgeable. Plus they don't have much of a selection past the usual suspects.
Dan
Dan
I been out of work since Dec 2008. I feel that the local B&M goes out of their way to provide the very best in service. But $40-$50 difference (that's just State Tobacco Tax and Sales Tax on say a $200-$300 box) on a box of sticks is close to a weeks groceries, or the co-pay for 2-3 prescriptions (I have many). It doesn't break down to the "per stick" cost in my mind...because I look at it from the stand point of just spend what it's gonna cost and be done with it, all at once (I rarely buy singles anymore). If I want to enjoy cigars, I need to find every corner to cut that I can in all of my spending...not just on sticks.
The way I look at it...I'm helping to support a B&M someplace else in the country, while directing smokers from out of state to my local B&M so that they can save, and help the B&M to pull in sales at the same time. It's win win all around.
The way I look at it...I'm helping to support a B&M someplace else in the country, while directing smokers from out of state to my local B&M so that they can save, and help the B&M to pull in sales at the same time. It's win win all around.
+1. I smoke at local b&m's all the time. I buy singles there, and if they are having a sale, I buy boxes there, as well. I also buy boxes on line. No conflict. B&M's offer service and charge a premium for it. Etailers offer low price with zero frills. I support both and appreciate what each has to offer.
eace:
Personally, my split is 80/20 in favor of online stores. I usually only hit up B&M for the LE stuff, Fuente Holiday releases and if I want to get away from home with some friends and relax. I will say that if I am using a B&M's lounge though, I will ALWAYS buy a stick to smoke there and I never bring with me any outside product other than alcohol and a lighter.
I buy mainly online. Ma has a 30% excise tax on cigars, then add the 6.25 state sales tax. They are considering raising the excise tax to 110%.
I buy a cigar here and there in a B&M,should I pay almost 40% higher prices for the
exact same item. If I lived in PA or FL I would buy more at B&M. I refuse to give Deval patrick any more of my money. If he wants to raise the tax to 110% go ahead.
Because 0 x 110% = 0
I buy a cigar here and there in a B&M,should I pay almost 40% higher prices for the
exact same item. If I lived in PA or FL I would buy more at B&M. I refuse to give Deval patrick any more of my money. If he wants to raise the tax to 110% go ahead.
Because 0 x 110% = 0
Also, I don't feel it necessary to buy a cigar from them every time I go in to use the lounge. I know this is contrary to most people, but if I go in there on Tuesday and buy $100 worth of cigars, I feel like I've built up some equity with them. So if on Thursday I feel like smoking a CC (or a cigar they don't carry) I don't always feel obligated to buy something that night. I also think it depends on your B&M's attitude towards that. Most of the guys that work at the Outlaw (my local) are cigar geeks just like me. Often when/if I can score cigars they don't carry I will take some in with me and we will trade/bomb/enjoy them together. Should me spending $200 in one day get me any less priviledges than the guy that buys a $5 in there each day?
I know others won't agree with me on this 100%.
I know others won't agree with me on this 100%.
Sweet... another Outlaw :grin:
I agree. There are times that I just plain don't have the extra cash to buy something but since I have done enough business with the B&M in the past they don't mind me coming in and smoking in the lounge. They know I am going to be buying more at some point. On the other hand if I am going to a shop I've never been to I am going to buy some smokes from them before sitting in the lounge.