Not so subtle differences...?

[halel]

I've noticed a few not so subtle differences on a few sticks.
I realize that tobacco leaves can be different color and whatnot but these seem a bit drastic.
Perhaps one is older than the other or something?

Someone know the story on these?

Exhibit A. Two Liga no.9(same vitola) with totally different wrappers. One is toothy and lighter color, one is not toothy at all and is very dark. One has veins(is that the correct wording?) one does not. The band is also slightly different.

Exhibit B. Two La Duena No.7. One has a very large band whereas the other has a smaller band.

Exhibit C. Two Alec Bradley Prensado Robusto. Ones band is glossy whereas the other band is more of a matte finish. The colors in the band are also different.

Anyone know the stories on these?

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Now we have to be worried about fake Cubans and fake Ligas? What is this world coming to?

 

[Lipher]

I have ligas in the same box that have such a variance. But when i crack open other fresh boxes i notice the same things (anejos, boli GMs come to mind)

With any natural product i expect there to be differences, but thats just me.

 

[wantacigar]

I have ligas in the same box that have such a variance. But when i crack open other fresh boxes i notice the same things (anejos, boli GMs come to mind)

With any natural product i expect there to be differences, but thats just me.

The manufacturers either sorted by wrapper color so the individual boxes would be uniformed. If the cigar didn't meet snuff with color, etc...it was a second or overrun. Notice, Drew Estate, Fuente, etc.. don't have any 2nds or over runs out there.
On the other hand Alec Bradley does and they are really good smokes. especially the 90+ rated 2nds with a few months age on them

 

[rdomfoto]

This may have absolutely nothing to do with it and all I am accomplishing is wasting people's time reading it.

But, you're doing that already so I may as well continue.

If two cigars were otherwise equal, the amount of time between smoking the first and the second would contribute to a difference in flavor, no? I notice that the aroma of a cigar when I first remove it from the cellophane is markedly different than when I go back and smell it 24 hours later. So, if you smoked them a week apart, then I would think there could be some subtle differences.

Wait a few months between them and the flavors could be quite different.

Or am I completely wrong here?

 

[Craig Mac]

Wrapper variance is completely normal in the cigar industry. The sorting process is done to group shades together so that each box appears uniform. It is not unlikely at all to see 2 boxes that are several shades apart when compared. Crops can vary greatly from year to year and it is nothing new. As far as the bands, that happens from year to year as well. The may switch it up, use a different company to produce the bands or whatever the case may be.

I seriously doubt you notice any difference smoking a cigar that was out of the cello for a week when compared to one in the cello. I would doubt you would be able to notice any difference over the course of months even. Years later you may see a difference, but it would take some time.

 

[sofc]

If you didn't smoke Exhibits B and C, you only have to worry about the Liga.

Some color difference in older LPs as opposed to newer ones. There was one batch in early 2013 I think which was really really dark.

 

[rdomfoto]

Wrapper variance is completely normal in the cigar industry. The sorting process is done to group shades together so that each box appears uniform. It is not unlikely at all to see 2 boxes that are several shades apart when compared. Crops can vary greatly from year to year and it is nothing new. As far as the bands, that happens from year to year as well. The may switch it up, use a different company to produce the bands or whatever the case may be.

I seriously doubt you notice any difference smoking a cigar that was out of the cello for a week when compared to one in the cello. I would doubt you would be able to notice any difference over the course of months even. Years later you may see a difference, but it would take some time.

When it comes to the aroma, I don't know whether the cigar is "different" or just has opened up a bit. But that makes sense that the tastes itself would not change (unless it was stored with some Acids or inside an Moni-dor)

 

[jdwaynes1980]

Leaves are like snowflakes.

The end.

 

[cajunblitz]

I'm thinking I could probably help you figure out any differences...all you gotta do is send me the pairs you'd like tested, then sit back, relax, and wait for the results....I promise to be as impartial as possible..

 

[halel]

I'm thinking I could probably help you figure out any differences...all you gotta do is send me the pairs you'd like tested, then sit back, relax, and wait for the results....I promise to be as impartial as possible..

You're a life saver!

 

[The EVP]

I can't help with B & C....sorry.

As for A, it looks like they are two different sizes, which would contribute to the differences. A fatter cigar would need a stronger binder and wrapper leaf to hold it together. Also, a larger RG cigar, depending on the size of the cuts made would be a creamier smoke since the smoke is not as concentrated when it hits your palate. As far as the veins go, it could just be the leaf that was used on that particular cigar. I've had boxes where a couple of the cigar had more or bigger veins than others in the box....that's not too much to worry about.

 

[Chief StrongLeaf]

Great Q, Halel.
Good read guys

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Craig Mac]

As for A, it looks like they are two different sizes, which would contribute to the differences. A fatter cigar would need a stronger binder and wrapper leaf to hold it together. Also, a larger RG cigar, depending on the size of the cuts made would be a creamier smoke since the smoke is not as concentrated when it hits your palate.

The cigars sit in molds before wrapper can be applied to take the proper shape. There is not any significant difference in tension between ring gauges on the wrapper once the cigars have taken shape in the molds. The same leaf is used for a Gigante as a Lancero and don't require different "strength" wrappers. If the tension came from the wrapper on the cigar then the draw would be completely inconsistent, the molds do that job.

I don't get the second part of that either. Smoke fills your mouth and hits the palate. It's not like a Lancero has a pin point stream on the palate and a gigante has a wider spread across the palate. The flavor may be different due to the wrapper to filler ratio but the smoke itself is not any more concentrated if the draw is consistent.

 

[SurpriseMVP]

The cigars sit in MOLDS before wrapper can be applied to take the proper shape.

Huh, thought it was plume.

Mike

 

[Lipher]

I'll repost from a desktop

 

[The EVP]

I don't get the second part of that either. Smoke fills your mouth and hits the palate. It's not like a Lancero has a pin point stream on the palate and a gigante has a wider spread across the palate. The flavor may be different due to the wrapper to filler ratio but the smoke itself is not any more concentrated if the draw is consistent.

There absolutely is a correlation between the size of the cut and how it hits your palate. The flavors don't necessarily change, but the intensity of how they come through does change. Take 2 identical cigars of a larger RG. Use a punch cut on one and straight cut on the other. Smoke them both. If a palate is refined enough, it should be able to detect the intensity difference between both cigars. The size of the opening on a cigar does have an impact on how the flavor profiles come through.

 

[Lipher]

look at the difference between these two L40s:

 

[javajunkie]

... Also, a larger RG cigar, depending on the size of the cuts made would be a creamier smoke since the smoke is not as concentrated when it hits your palate.

...I don't get the second part of that either. Smoke fills your mouth and hits the palate. It's not like a Lancero has a pin point stream on the palate and a gigante has a wider spread across the palate. The flavor may be different due to the wrapper to filler ratio but the smoke itself is not any more concentrated if the draw is consistent.

just to clarify, i think EVP was stating that the type of cut could affect flavor presentation, and that Cmac's point was that construction and blend across vitolas should be expected to be about equal. sound about right?

also, manufacturers put a TON of work into making sure their blends are consistent, while using a natural and changing product. i had a fuente hemmi this morning that was spot on the one i had 18 years ago; with crops doing different things each year, plants changing due to the capriciousness of weather each year, that blows my mind! there are going to be wrapper shade differences, but rarely in the same box. there should be little variation in blends. except for CCs, that is another tin of annelids entirely.

 

[Craig Mac]

I don't get the second part of that either. Smoke fills your mouth and hits the palate. It's not like a Lancero has a pin point stream on the palate and a gigante has a wider spread across the palate. The flavor may be different due to the wrapper to filler ratio but the smoke itself is not any more concentrated if the draw is consistent.

There absolutely is a correlation between the size of the cut and how it hits your palate. The flavors don't necessarily change, but the intensity of how they come through does change. Take 2 identical cigars of a larger RG. Use a punch cut on one and straight cut on the other. Smoke them both. If a palate is refined enough, it should be able to detect the intensity difference between both cigars. The size of the opening on a cigar does have an impact on how the flavor profiles come through.

I guess I didn't understand the second part of what you were trying to say as it seemed like you were comparing 2 different ring gauges. A couple others I talked to thought the same thing. I do agree that a refined palate may be able to pick up subtleties with different styles of cuts, notably something like punching a chisel due to how it hits the palate.

I don't think it necessarily means "creamier" because the volume of smoke output is less. May the flavor be a bit different.. possibly.

We may just be splitting hairs here on how we interpret the difference in flavor though. I just wouldn't say, to me, it makes it "creamier" as I think if the draw is consistent then the concentration of the smoke itself isn't going to change.