What will happen to the NC manufacturers when the embargo is lifted ?

[nubchin]

My friends, what we really want to happen here is not for the embargo to end. What we want is for Cuba to be FREE! These people deserve freedom, and they long for it. I'd gladly give up Habanos for the rest of my life if it meant the Cuban people could be free tomorrow. Neither the cigar industry nor the people of Cuba will reach anywhere near their potential until they are free.

I will strongly support your stance and the necessity for democracy for the people in Cuba no doubt only if this is accompanied with independent sovereign governance which the US foreign policy has failed threw out the Latin American countries by crushing every democratic governments with puppet military dictators threw out the past .
Remember Cuba had a US puppet dictator who was called Batista which resulted in a revolution , and we all know what went wrong after the vast majority of Cubans supported Fidel Castro and his regime .

Most of the Latin American leaders you see right now were all involved in the armed struggle against the puppet military dictators who were strongly supported by the US foreign policy .

History in these tobacco regions and around them is causing plenty of ironic results right now to amaze us all , but let us never forget that there were also plenty of persecutions and deaths in both sides of the populations who were simply victims of the political military power games including the ones who are being discovered in mass graves as we speak so lets try not to enter politics and pray for them shall we ?

The Cuban cigars do amaze us all and we tend to discuss them no matter what , but the topic is about the NC manufacturers including the farmers and rollers who might be affected by the lift of the embargo .

What moves do they need to make in your opinion ?
Is the NC market mature enough to face the lift in your opinion ?
What moves do we have to make as consumers in your opinion ?

 

[nubchin]

[NOTE: The following is meant as discussion, not criticism or argument, we're all friends here ]

That argument is flawed. "People in Japan only drive Japanese cars, therefore they're the best" is also untrue. And I think the premise is inaccurate anyway. I do not think most people do "have access to any type of cigar." Maybe the Brothers here from outside of North America can comment on this, but it's my understanding that many countries DO NOT SELL NON-CUBANS, or at least sell them very sparsely. I've been to several shops here in Japan, and I've never seen a non-Cuban cigar (granted, I live up north in the wild, lol, so there are probably a few shops in Tokyo that do). I know a few guys in Great Brittan who say it's really hard to find a shop that carries more than a few non-Cubans (though most carry a few). And the argument that "They'd sell them if they sold well" is fallacious, because you're talking about many products that are only a few years old, so I'm sure they haven't seen any shelf time at all. So where are people going to discover non-Cuban cigars?

The internet? This problem is compounded by the fact that many countries do not allow the importation of tobacco (or charge insanely high tariffs, such as Japan), and therefore a great many online cigar retailers in the US will not ship outside the US at all. Now if you're a member of a forum such as ours, of course you can get hook-ups for virtually anything the US has to offer, but I dare say that we here are in an extreme minority. The majority of cigar smokers are not involved in internet forums and wouldn't even think to go to the trouble of trying to acquire cigars that are more than a drive or a website away.

And for not being educated here in the forum , didnt know you lived in Japan hahahaaa!
Which city your at?

 

[JGD]

If the embargo is lifted - and the Cuban government stays in its current form, then the chances of NC manufacturers using Cuban tobacco is very low.
The reason for this are the following:
1. Cuba does not export tobacco in its raw form. Sure, there has been rumors (and there always will be) the Cuba does, but all of these stories come from a friend of a friend, etc. The fact of the matter is that they stand to make much more money exporting cigars than raw tobacco.
2. The Cuban government still has a hold on all the tobacco growing land on the island, as well as the vast majority of land and industry on the island as a whole. Recently they have allowed more people to get licenses to own property and operate private businesses, but these people are still the extreme minorities. So, a previously NC manufacturer will not simply be able to move back to the island and start growing their own tobacco to be rolled separate from HSA.
3. Even if the Cuban government did allow someone to operate their own farm again to sell cigars separate from HSA, the chances are even smaller that the government will allow anyone related to the Cuban exiles to do so. The Cuban government does not like these people, so it would be much easier for someone like you or I do go there and operate a farm than people such as the Fuentes.

Now, if the the Cuban government completely gets an overall (basically by a revolution), then anything could happen.

 

[ajacobs]

I can't think of a country that allows importation of Cuban tobacco but not tobacco from other regions or that has different tarrifs on Cuban tobacco than tobacco from other regions - maybe those countries exist.

Personally, I don't think the argument "they would sell them if they sold well" is fallacious at all, I would propose that they would sell them if there was the demand - just like non domestic hard alcohol is very popular overseas.

I do concede that the a large part of the reason that Cuban's are in demand is that is the well known region for cigars even among the non cigar enthusiasts much like Scotch Whiskey from Scotland (even though Japan is producing some great Scotch Style Whiskey).

Unlike with your car example cigars prices based on region vary less. Also being more of a luxury and of an smaller dollar amount the price difference are less consequential.

"Best" of course is always subjective. With the outstanding quality of Cubans for the last 7 or 8 years, I don't know that previous exposure to non Cubans is enough to sway the masses.

Much like America is the best country in the world Cuban cigars will probably long be considered the best cigars in the world.

Best, being subjective, can only be measured is by demand (sure other countries may do some things certain people like better - but ask anywhere in the world if you had to live in another country or if you could live in another country America would be the number one answer - even if that is just based on perseption with no real knowledge).

I would argue that if you asked cigar smokers what country would you prefer your cigars came from and Cuba would be the number one answer. That translates to sales and I think it would in the US also.

I think this translates into a sharp decline in sales for non cuban manufactures - for many of which it will be unrecoverable. I hope it doesn't happen but fear that it will.

I think the perception domestically is that Cubans are superior and the non Cuban manufactures are going to have a heck of an uphill battle once the ban is lifted - especially in the 6-10 dollar smoke range. Cheaper non Cubans will continue to sell and people who are already buying higher end or more limited Non Cubans will continue to do so but probably in smaller numbers.

 

[njstone]

^ "With the outstanding quality of Cubans for the last 7 or 8 years, I don't know that previous exposure to non Cubans is enough to sway the masses. "

I agree with that, the "previous exposure" to non-Cuban cigars part. What I meant was this: for a shop in, say, Japan to say "non-Cubans don't sell well here" is stupid ON THEIR PART. What they really mean is they tried it years ago, and what they had didn't sell well (probably General and Altadis stuff only). Of course, the onus is on the NC manufacturers to pimp their products better overseas.

I would argue that in the last 5 years or so the overall quality of non-Cuban cigars has increased significantly. That same shop in Japan is doing themselves a disservice in terms of sales to decide carte blanche that non-Cubans won't sell.

I hear the Opus X talked about in Cuban-smoking circles a lot ... that cigar is what, 13-years old now? I think that in, say, 10 years you'll have a lot more people world-wide who are buying Nicaraguan and Dominican cigars. The battle is up-hill, after all the Cuban brands have 100+ years of history and prestige vs. companies that can count their years of existence on their fingers.

For many, of course, Cubans will be the only way. In some cases this is just habit, in other cases I think it's silly elitism, in other cases simple taste preferences. But in many cases I think it's just a matter of what one becomes accustomed to. In countries where they grow up drinking tea, people often find coffee to taste horrible. My Mom grew up in a Scandinavian house, and so to her Italian food is "spicy."

I think if you have always smoked Cubans, you might find Nicaraguan tobacco to be very different at first (likely very strong, both in flavor and nicotine). Maybe different is good, maybe not. But I can tell you the first Cubans I smoked were mostly boring as heck (and riddled with construction issues). Now, however, I've found many to be excellent and different than anything in the non-Cuban world. Now I love both

 

[Mickeymorris626]

wow, well put njstone. I bet a fausto or even better a T110 would be a kick in the nuts to some of these cuban exclusive smokers

 

[nubchin]

wow, well put njstone. I bet a fausto or even better a T110 would be a kick in the nuts to some of these cuban exclusive smokers

Well again guys I have to quote my own words agian .

The Cuban cigars do amaze us all and we tend to discuss them no matter what , but the topic is about the NC manufacturers including the farmers and rollers who might be affected by the lift of the embargo .

What moves do they need to make in your opinion ?
Is the NC market mature enough to face the lift in your opinion ?
What moves do we have to make as consumers in your opinion ?

 

[Herfin' Harg]

[YOUTUBE]O3ZOKDmorj0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[strife]

Well again guys I have to quote my own words agian .

The Cuban cigars do amaze us all and we tend to discuss them no matter what , but the topic is about the NC manufacturers including the farmers and rollers who might be affected by the lift of the embargo .

What moves do they need to make in your opinion ?
Is the NC market mature enough to face the lift in your opinion ?
What moves do we have to make as consumers in your opinion ?

My opinion? It would be business as usual.

 

[nubchin]

[YOUTUBE]O3ZOKDmorj0[/YOUTUBE]

:headroll: