Any Brands You Don't Like?

[amsgpwarrior]

I dont feel bad for writing off entire lines and brands. I've smoked all the 5 Vegas and Nestor Mirandas, and I dont care for them. They were and probably never will be a type of smoke I care for. Who cares if Pepin makes some of Nestors stuff and 5 Vegas Miami. Pepin can make a crap cigar everyone once in awhile and I put those cigars in that category (along with the La Relobas). Don't get me wrong though, I will continue to try new sticks by every brand and I welcome the day when one of my hated brands surprises me with something I might like. Fonseca did that to me lately with the new CXX, I hated them before and couldn't care less about the cigars till I picked up that stick. As a reviewer for a cigar website, I have my preferences (like anyone else) and I have strong opinions, but don't let it fool you into thinking I don't give every cigar it's fair shake.

 

[MReschke0626]

Put me in the camp of people that don't want to black-list any brands because they might be exactly what another brother loves.

That said, I do have a list of brands that I don't reach for on the B&M shelves anymore. In so cases my palate has just matured away from them over the years, like Acid & Macanudo, as well as other milder and flavored smokes. As I've found I prefer the power and pepper of Nicaraguan sticks the most, I've also left behind RyJ, and I only smoke one A. Fuente stick outside of the Opus line; the Rosada Gran Reserva.

But I'd never call these cigars bad. They have their merits, and I have enjoyed them at some point probably, so I would encourage any other smoker to try them too. It's just not my cup of tea anymore. A great example, I've smoked two Davidoff Double R's and they'll be the last two. A fantastic smoke from a legendary producer, but it just didn't have that extra little pop to it that I love to find in my favorite sticks.

If I was forced to make a list of brands that would get a pass from me more often than not tho....

Acid
Cain
Camacho
CAO
Rocky Patel
Gurkha
A lot of "fake boutique" (as I like to call them) brands by General and Altadis. They just never wow me or stand out from their parent company for me.

 

[javajunkie]

I really have to say I have NOT heard brand bashing here. everyone seems to be professing personal opinions, based on their own aesthetic.

I think it is good to hear dissenting viewpoints. I have posted brick house and tat VI as go-to daily smokes, and have heard both dismissed. and that means more for me, and I know not to offer those brands to those posters, if we ever meet up.

has no one bought something on hype, and then been let down? how about falling in live with something you were warned against?


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[njstone]

how about falling in live with something you were warned against?

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I was just going to bring this up, actually. There have been many cigars that I haven't tried because I heard so many bad things. Sometimes those cigars haven't done anything for me, but sometimes they turned out to be great!

When I first started really getting into this hobby, the people I knew were into the newer, value-based stuff. Good cigars, not top-shelf, but really well-priced. It was perfect for me, who was just exploring still and $3/stick or less on sale/auction seemed like a good plan. Those guys talked crap about brands like Fuente and Padron as being "old-people's cigars" and "way overpriced." So I didn't try either of those brands for a long time.

Then I had an AF Heminway and loved it, and a Padron Londres and loved that too. Though I don't like the cheaper Fuentes (i.e. sub-Hemingway, except the 858 Rosado) these days, Fuente and Padron are 2 of my favorite manufacturers now, along with "cool ones" like Tatuaje, Illusione, Liga Privada, and more value-based labels like Padilla, Perdomo, and others.

in general I don't care for most Altadis or General Cigar lines, but there are exceptions there too. The R&J Havana Reserve is good, as is the Montecristo Media Noche and a lot of the Punch stuff. (Funny enough, I like the Dominican Punch cigars more than the HSA Punch line, at least what I've had of it).

 

[nubchin]

Infused and flavored are very different things. I'm guessing most of us don't smoke flavored cigars ever, though many of us have an infused cigar now and then (I do when smoking with guys who are new to cigars ... the CI Legends Copper by Drew Estates is great). As far as the "how do you know" thing ... you know, lol. It would be really hard to hide infusion. I very seriously doubt that any manufacturers are peddling cigars as traditional when they are in fact infused, though I can't prove that since I don't smoke everything there is, of course. I've certainly never come across something mainstream and said "I think this is infused," and again I'm NOT biased against infusion, though I smoke them very rarely.

As to the Fuente, you said "Opus" but I think you meant Anejo -- those wrappers are aged in old empty Sherry casks (I think it's sherry). And I personally DO consider the Anejo to be the first infused cigars. Most guys will disagree, but I think that's based on a bias against infusion. The CBL wrappers on the Anejo pick up a lot of that sherry ... if that's not infusion, I don't know what is! (BTW, I love the Anejo!).

Thanks for correcting nj :tiphat:
My point is whether you feel it by smoking them or not, you never know whats in your stick since there is no regulations for additives in cigars .
We smokers tend to rely and trust the manufacturers for there honest manufacturing but many do abuse our trust stepping out from the "Marketing" frame. That could add more power to the anti-tobacco groups in the pretext of "Look what's added in this RP cigar(example) which are sold as if totally naturally made cigar " adding the cigar category with the cigarette industries hence damaging this hobby as a whole .

Cigar Rights Groups does some efforts to defend our rights , but tend to forget the fact that cigar industries would have to change there oun methods and attitudes to differentiate them from the cigarette corporates .

We all would like to keep our rights to smoke cigars as long as we want to , so I will continue my small effort of staying away from dishonest manufacturers in the hope that they would one day realize that they're way of manufacturing and treating customers as " suckers " are not the way to compete and survive in the industry .

 

[usmcpurcell]

has no one bought something on hype, and then been let down? how about falling in live with something you were warned against?

I was warned against the cheesy named and banded Pirates Gold many people consider it a yardgar but I personally think its a great smoke!

 

[WhiteWolfIndulgence]

Unimpressed by:

Avo regular line
Rocky Patel (the Patel Bros. is an exception)
Fuente, Including the Opus X. I wouldn't turn one down but...
Most things by Gran Habano I could avoid. The Azteca line on the other hand is awesome for me
H. Upman's stuff. They all have burned funny for me.
Nothing infused
Nothing as a "second"

 

[T-Squared]

Just not a fan of Gran Habano, I've tried at least 1-2 of everything my local B&M carries (they have a wide selection of that brand), and there's just an off flavor I can't get past with all of them. The Azteca is the most paletteable (sp?) and it still carries a hint of that off flavor as well.

That and I know Berger and Argenti is a solid brand, but there's also something off in the flavor when I try smoking a Mooch, or Classico that keeps me from going back.

 

[njstone]

Thanks for correcting nj :tiphat:
My point is whether you feel it by smoking them or not, you never know whats in your stick since there is no regulations for additives in cigars .
We smokers tend to rely and trust the manufacturers for there honest manufacturing but many do abuse our trust stepping out from the "Marketing" frame. That could add more power to the anti-tobacco groups in the pretext of "Look what's added in this RP cigar(example) which are sold as if totally naturally made cigar " adding the cigar category with the cigarette industries hence damaging this hobby as a whole .

Cigar Rights Groups does some efforts to defend our rights , but tend to forget the fact that cigar industries would have to change there oun methods and attitudes to differentiate them from the cigarette corporates .

We all would like to keep our rights to smoke cigars as long as we want to , so I will continue my small effort of staying away from dishonest manufacturers in the hope that they would one day realize that they're way of manufacturing and treating customers as " suckers " are not the way to compete and survive in the industry .

Do you have any evidence for this? You seem to be stating as fact that the cigar industry is putting additives in our cigars. I've heard this line before, and I'm sorry but I just don't see this as being an issue. I don't know of any cigar manufacturers who put additives in the cigars (apart from flavored cigars). Even cigar "dye" is just a part of the tobacco plant. Heck, some people even make bands out of tobacco!

I don't think I'm being a "sucker" here either. I've never found evidence nor heard of anything EVER that would lead me to agree with this notion.

To my knowledge, none of the major manufacturers put any sort of additives in their cigars, and rumors to the contrary simply give the FDA more reason to try to regulate the cigar industry (which is a BAD thing!). Note: an exception to this is Cuba, who do to horrible quality control often let things slip into cigars--string being the most common (because it's used to tie bunches of loose tobacco together), but I've heard of a lot of odd things showing up inside legitimate Cuban cigars.

The most dishonesty I see in the industry is when a manufacturer might claim a wrapper or filler leaf is from a certain country/region (because it's popular) when it in fact is not, or when they might claim a certain type of leaf is "very limited" (when it isn't) and therefore they have to charge more for it. But this is often conjecture, and you'd really have to be an industry insider to know if/when this is going on.

 

[nubchin]

Actually there's few articles which you can read , but you will have to ask the manufacturers for example Pete Johnson why he was pissed off by those tricks in the industry .

Originally posted by David Savona:
I did a story on the subject once:
http://www.cigaraficionado.com...ifferent-Flavor_8595

If you like what ever brands , thats up to you and smoke what you like, I'm just saying I'm not willing to go after those brands which I had weird experiences in the past and I'm not the only one here.
If what ever brand claims to cultivate tobacco and manufacture cigars 100% naturally, those sticks won't appear and taste that way.

I consider dyeing cooking coloring wrappers as dishonest , raw materials not from the marketed region as dishonest , spraying sugar or flavorings as dishonest , not the aging period as marketed as dishonest.
If a manufacturer start expanding the lines without notifying the consumers , you will never now whats next.

We all clearly know what "Premium Cigars" has to be and it clearly has to be that way , no other way around.

And again that's just me.

Cubans are another story.

 

[nubchin]

Just not a fan of Gran Habano, I've tried at least 1-2 of everything my local B&M carries (they have a wide selection of that brand), and there's just an off flavor I can't get past with all of them. The Azteca is the most paletteable (sp?) and it still carries a hint of that off flavor as well.

That and I know Berger and Argenti is a solid brand, but there's also something off in the flavor when I try smoking a Mooch, or Classico that keeps me from going back.

+1 on Gran Habano , Ive tried almost all but never could reach mid in any.

 

[njstone]

Actually there's few articles which you can read , but you will have to ask the manufacturers for example Pete Johnson why he was pissed off by those tricks in the industry .

Originally posted by David Savona:
I did a story on the subject once:
http://www.cigaraficionado.com...ifferent-Flavor_8595

If you like what ever brands , thats up to you and smoke what you like, I'm just saying I'm not willing to go after those brands which I had weird experiences in the past and I'm not the only one here.
If what ever brand claims to cultivate tobacco and manufacture cigars 100% naturally, those sticks won't appear and taste that way.

I consider dyeing cooking coloring wrappers as dishonest , raw materials not from the marketed region as dishonest , spraying sugar or flavorings as dishonest , not the aging period as marketed as dishonest.
If a manufacturer start expanding the lines without notifying the consumers , you will never now whats next.

We all clearly know what "Premium Cigars" has to be and it clearly has to be that way , no other way around.

And again that's just me.

Cubans are another story.

That link seems to be broken, but I'd like to read the article.

Many of us here, myself included, have talked with Pete about this issue actually, and share some of his frustrations (which is why I specifically mentioned the fact that some people claim tobacco is grown one place and it's not, or act like it's very limited when what they actually mean is they only purchased a certain amount). Steve Saka (Liga Privada/Drew Estates) is a member here (as is JD) and he's discussed these issues at length as well. Cooking and "dying" using tobacco-products is more common than people realize ... very common in the case of tobacco-based coloring. I know it upsets some people, and I understand that. I have no problem with tobacco-based coloring in principle (as long as they're honest about it, which I agree many are not), I just hate it in practice as it gets all over my fingers and lips.

But true dying with something other than tobacco is BAD (though I don't know any off-hand who do that), and "spraying flavorings" is something I've not seen ever outside of flavored cigars. Now some cigars might be flavored or have a sweetened tip which is not mentioned in the title of the cigar or something, but you can typically find that out easily if you read about the cigar, even on the manufacturer's website. For example I think some of the Flor de Olivas have sweetened tips, but you can find that out if you read and they're not trying to fool anyone ... how could they, it's so OBVIOUS if a cigar has a sweetened tip, lol.

But I honestly have never experienced or even heard a case where a cigar was marketed as "traditional" and was actually artificially flavored. There have been people in the past who've accused the Opus or certain LFDs of being flavored because of the rich raisin scent that is sometimes present (especially with age), but those people are just plain ignorant about tobacco. I've literally heard people say "tobacco doesn't smell/taste like that," which is just ridiculous. Some guy whose never smoked a Cuban might likewise think they are all artificially flavored because Cubans don't taste like "real cigars" that he's used to. But he's just ignorant of what Cuban tobacco tastes like.

So in short (yea right, this wasn't short, lol) I agree that there is some dishonestly in the industry. But I've never seen or heard any evidence on the specific issue of cigars being artificially flavored when they are purported not to be.

 

[njstone]

I hate to keep harping on an issue that's been discussed here so much, but here is a quote from an RP rep about the dying issue:

RE: RP CIGARS - DYE ISSUE: Dear friends, RP refrains from the use of dye in any of our cigars. That said, premium tobacco can suffer from some form of bleed -- if damp and or wet. This is actually a sign of aged quality, rather than poor quality. OWR is rolled with high quality, aged wrapper. And yes, the long aged leaf can suffer from natural bleed. We take intense pride in producing products without the use of any sort of color additives. With kind regards. C. Roberts - VP Marketing and Media - Rocky Patel Premium Cigars - Bonita Springs, Florida.

Now what's saying is that they don't use artificial dyes. But what he's NOT saying (based on numerous photos, videos, and people's testimonies of visiting the RP factory) is that the rollers use water when rolling the cigars. The THEORY is that this is done to keep costs down, as fragile wrappers can brake more easily when dry. Other manufacturers do the same. But the side-effect is that if you leave the wrappers in water, the color leaches out slightly, and while the water on their hands cause the natural color in the wrapper to bleed out. The color is then spread around across the wrapper, etc. So the end result is a dyed look.

Now regardless of whether RP is full of BS or not, I think this method SUCK BALLS and he and anyone else who does this ought to stop doing it. Natural or not, the color comes off on our hands and lips and it's just plain annoying. I don't buy cigars anymore that I have experienced this with.

 

[nubchin]

I hate to keep harping on an issue that's been discussed here so much, but here is a quote from an RP rep about the dying issue:



Now what's saying is that they don't use artificial dyes. But what he's NOT saying (based on numerous photos, videos, and people's testimonies of visiting the RP factory) is that the rollers use water when rolling the cigars. The THEORY is that this is done to keep costs down, as fragile wrappers can brake more easily when dry. Other manufacturers do the same. But the side-effect is that if you leave the wrappers in water, the color leaches out slightly, and while the water on their hands cause the natural color in the wrapper to bleed out. The color is then spread around across the wrapper, etc. So the end result is a dyed look.

Now regardless of whether RP is full of BS or not, I think this method SUCK BALLS and he and anyone else who does this ought to stop doing it. Natural or not, the color comes off on our hands and lips and it's just plain annoying. I don't buy cigars anymore that I have experienced this with.

Same here , I try to stay far away .
Maybe I am too anal but if a wrapper is freaky I see the whole manufacturer the same , but if nothing is bad I trust fully on them .
Premiums has to be premiums no matter how ugly the wrapper looks or no matter how long it takes to manufacture .
Some house blends and local shop blends from Florida are more reliable and flavorful then many major brands and I tend to trust them more . They really dont give a damn what the trend is as long as there cigars are made well and I try to buy from them more .

And sorry for the thread jack guys .

 

[Alwayslit]

RP
any infused
Anything made by general cigar.

 

[stephen_hannibal]

RP is meh IMHO.
And while I used to be a huge Gurkha fan it seems the first few I tried are the only ones that I still like.
Im hoping their new blends are pretty good.


Sent using smoke signals.

 

[CWS]

Nice to be back on topic. Soap box is in the debate room.

I was never able to finish a Flor de Todo.

 

[Dave]

Nice to be back on topic. Soap box is in the debate room.

I was never able to finish a Flor de Todo.

So, did you write off everything by R Reyes/PI? Or just just the Flor del Todo?

 

[CWS]

So, did you write off everything by R Reyes/PI? Or just just the Flor del Todo?

Nope. I try not to look at all cigars based on one line. The FDT just was a really bad stick to me and you get a lot of them to try. I used to smoke Puros Indios Viejos but not so much any more.