What say You???

[sean]

Yeah to me liberals are the same as dirty hippies so if we get rid of the dirty liberal hippies no more issues like this would happen not saying the conservatives are any better with some thing that's just my opion.

Wow. As "dirty-hippie-liberal-AMERICAN" I take HUGE offense, brother.

That said, I am fully on board with everyone here regarding the honor and sanctity of the Flag. You don't f*ck with the Flag, period. That is an emblem of the country (but not the country-itself, as I have discussed in another conversation).

The issue here is not the Flag. The issue here is the delicate politics of multifamily housing. The rule is nothing hung on external walls. Making an exception for the Flag (especially, when there are more honorable places to be flying the Flag - ie: Pnoguy's suggestion), will open a can of worms for the manger. What should have been done, instead of just messing around with eviction notices, is that the two parties should have all tried to reach a resolution (like Pnoguy's suggestion).

 

[Greg]

I believe he CAN fly the flag, just not on the wall. They did get him a pole, but not a real one:

After residents requested one, management has put up a flagpole. Zivica calls it "flimsy and cheesy-looking," plastic with no lanyard to hoist the flag or lower it to half-staff.

 

[sean]

I believe he CAN fly the flag, just not on the wall. They did get him a pole, but not a real one:

After residents requested one, management has put up a flagpole. Zivica calls it "flimsy and cheesy-looking," plastic with no lanyard to hoist the flag or lower it to half-staff.

Right. And that pole doesn't have a lanyard, so he can't even fly his flag... there is some permanent P.O.S. attached to the top. That accomplishes nothing. That's about a good an alternative as him hanging his flag on his internal walls.

 

[Greg]

Right. And that pole doesn't have a lanyard, so he can't even fly his flag... there is some permanent P.O.S. attached to the top. That accomplishes nothing. That's about a good an alternative as him hanging his flag on his internal walls.

I agree, that's why I thought that it would be a nice gesture to send him a real one.

 

[ciggy]

Horse shit, brother! :grin:

It's flawed logic to ban something just in case something ELSE that's similar might be offensive.

.

Not saying I support it...just saying people will do anything these days to create hate against the American flag. I can see where both sides are right in the matter. I think the fact he just wants to celebrate that day and that day really shouldn't be an issue...but again alot of people are just plain assholes.

 

[AlohaStyle]

As much as I don't want to, I agree with the owners and that renters don't have the RIGHT to hang something on the walls.

I feel bad for this guy and would gladly chip in something as long as it's wanted and works. Sounds like they have some sort of pole that will work in the meantime. I think the property owners can pay to install a permanent one.

 

[ChazHollywood]

Not saying I support it...just saying people will do anything these days to create hate against the American flag. I can see where both sides are right in the matter. I think the fact he just wants to celebrate that day and that day really shouldn't be an issue...but again alot of people are just plain assholes.

I seriously doubt the "don't stick anything to the side of the building" rule was created to foster hate against the flag.

The rule applies to the flag, it wasn't created because of the flag.

The real question is whether the flag should constitute an exception to the rule, and if so what else should constitute a valid exception? Unfortunately coming up with a reasonable, consistent policy is something of a challenge.

-Charles

 

[javajunkie]

and, just to play devil's advocate: we are such a litigation-happy society that the management is actually in the right, rather than being sued by someone who wants to fly muslim colors or a swastika. or rather sue when they can't.

that being said, IT IS THE FLAG OF THE NATION. the fact that he wants to, but does not HAVE to, fly the flag speaks to why we celebrate veteran's day. it is sh*t that this debate is even open, but we need free speech rights to stay who we, as a nation, are.

that said, get that man a real flagpole! freedom finds a way.

 

[Alwayslit]

I believe he CAN fly the flag, just not on the wall. They did get him a pole, but not a real one:

After residents requested one, management has put up a flagpole. Zivica calls it "flimsy and cheesy-looking," plastic with no lanyard to hoist the flag or lower it to half-staff.

Maybe they're afraid this will happen.:grin:

 

[Baldanders]

That notice came after the flag went up on Oct. 27 for Navy Day, one of several that Zivica marks by hanging it outside the community room near the main entrance

Sounds like the flag was not hung on his property.

 

[Skitalets]

My two cents on the "slippery slope" argument: there are countries that actually *mandate* businesses or certain individuals put up flags on certain occasions. My wife and I were in Vietnam for their national holiday and saw them all over.

I'm grateful that we have more freedom in this country -- freedom to dissent or even not be patriotic (acknowledging that dissent can sometimes be very patriotic of course). But everyone should have the right to fly the flag if they want. I don't see anything wrong with granting the symbol of our freedom that small privilege.

 

[smelvis]

Ciggy I think it stinks but almost all Soldiers I have met say that's what they fight for. So dammit I still don't like it.

I do think there should be an amendment that makes it a Felony to burn Our Flag.

 

[pnoguy]

Okay....quick update from the pno point of view. Today got totally out of hand, so I didn't get a chance to call Mr. Zivica, but I'm going to call him tomorrow, thank him for his service, and find out if he'll use a portable base and pole to fly his flag if they are sent. It's possible his apartment is not on the ground floor, or that he has no access to fly directly outside, I don't know. If there is a way for him to fly a flag without jeopordizing his home, he'll get it courtesy of BOTL. I'm pretty sure he's going to end up with a flag flown from a Blackhawk in Afghanistan some time next year as well. I'll let you all know what happens. Peace.....wouldn't that be nice.....

 

[Baldanders]

Update
Oregon veteran allowed to display his flag.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/11/ore-veteran-allowed-to-display-his-flag/1

 

[sonarman]

I would do it, there is a long process before they can actually remove him.

 

[pnoguy]

OUTSTANDING!! Thanks for the update, Jim. I'm still gonna send him a combat flag.

 

[ciggy]

I seriously doubt the "don't stick anything to the side of the building" rule was created to foster hate against the flag.

-Charles

I didn't make the statement in regards to the complex owner...I made it in regards to the others who live there and make it an issue in the first place. Keep in mind it is OUR NATIONAL FLAG! Not a piece of fabric or cloth to disreguard but the blood and sweat of this country and what he fought for. I just think it shouldn't be regarded in the apartment rules in the same catagory of personal beliefs being displayed.
For thoes of you who care...take time to read this.
http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

 

[sean]

I didn't make the statement in regards to the complex owner...I made it in regards to the others who live there and make it an issue in the first place.

Re-read the article, and you will see that the management was the party that took issue. The residents requested a flag pole, which the management tried to provide (but failed to provide an acceptable one). It can be inferred that the residents were on Mister Zivica's side.

For thoes of you who care...take time to read this.
http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

This dirty-liberal-hippie-marxist-socialist-scumbag-(and any other adjectives you wanna call me)-AMERICAN is fully aware of these guidelines, and adhere's to them in full compliance. I don't think we need to make laws in order to protect the flag, but any one who knowingly disrespects the flag must accept that they are dissenting to a point where they jeopardize their patriotism.

 

[smelvis]

* BEGIN THREAD JACK HERE *

Any soldier that says they fight for the flag is either young or misinformed...

We fight for what the flag REPRESENTS... a nation that believes in political voice and individual liberties... liberties that ALSO include the right to burn the very same flag.

I'm with you that I don't like it... so I excercie my right to NOT burn the flag and NOT support anyone that does...... but I thank God I was born in a nation that has such a fantastic stance on FREEDOM that it allows me to burn its flag if I wanted to. A law that bans flag desecration stands against the very liberties our flag REPRESENTS... and I will continue to fight (and die if I must) for your RIGHT to burn it...

Cheers for the sentiment, though, brother! :cbig:

* END THREAD JACK HERE *

Another mis read or I didn't say enough post. So I am in my usual way saying exactly what you did I just suck at getting my point across. I still think anyone who does burn it deserves to leave this Country. IMHO Sorry Jim for sucking at making my point.

I said or at least meant they fight for the right to say and speak what you want even the flag burners. That was what I meant and then said I don't think that way. See how easy words are to mis read or write so people know what we I meant.

I still think there should be a law against it that is my right.

 

[ciggy]

* BEGIN THREAD JACK HERE *

Any soldier that says they fight for the flag is either young or misinformed...

We fight for what the flag REPRESENTS... *

That's what I mean when I say it...sorry for not being more clear.