Herfin' Harg
BoM March 2012
Again, I can understand the tax, but not the penalty... I would pitch a fit about that.
Products Tax/Consumer Use notice...
- Thread starter veeref
- Start date
Here is my expanded take on the matter. If I were one of 100 online widget websites, and for some reason only MY customers were getting taxed/audited on the widgets I sold out of state, you could bet I would be doing whatever I could to avoid losing future customers and potential lost income because I'm obviously operating at somewhat disadvantage.
AlohaStyle
BoM Sept '12 & Aug '13
Can someone please give specific examples of what Dan should be doing, instead of what he's doing now? I really would like to know what people think he's doing wrong. Yes it sucks that people are getting taxed on their out of state orders, but no one has yet to say what he should be doing instead.
veeref... I really am not taking Dan's side here over yours as I would be pissed if I were in your shoes too. He should let it be known to his customers that he does in fact report all sales and that this is a possibility. But that doesn't help you now.
But how do you know he's the only company doing this? And I would be shocked to know you are the first person living in Colorado that has ordered from him. I don't know of anyone else in Colorado that had this happen to them and I bet there's a fair share of people living in Colorado that are on the forums, so you would think we would've heard about it. I think a dude named benday here on BOTL lives in CO, used Dan and never said anything.
I think most businesses follow the law for the most part and it is just dumb luck that the state enforces these tax laws and actually goes after people and that you got caught this time...
veeref... I really am not taking Dan's side here over yours as I would be pissed if I were in your shoes too. He should let it be known to his customers that he does in fact report all sales and that this is a possibility. But that doesn't help you now.
But how do you know he's the only company doing this? And I would be shocked to know you are the first person living in Colorado that has ordered from him. I don't know of anyone else in Colorado that had this happen to them and I bet there's a fair share of people living in Colorado that are on the forums, so you would think we would've heard about it. I think a dude named benday here on BOTL lives in CO, used Dan and never said anything.
I think most businesses follow the law for the most part and it is just dumb luck that the state enforces these tax laws and actually goes after people and that you got caught this time...
Palmettoguy
42-28'48'' N
Reading this thread made me dig into my states tobacco use tax laws.
The tax rate on tobacco products is 5% of the manufacturers price. The manufacturers price is the established price at which the manufacturer sells to a wholesaler.
Here's what I would pay if I missed 12 months of payment on that same $125 bundle:
$3.13/tax
$1.88/penalty (5% of tax owed per month x 12 months)
$5.01 Total due to the tax man....
I can't believe how jacked up your state is...Taxes I can understand, but that 500% fine is insane.
danthebugman
BoM Nov '10
If he wants to comply with the law of the state he's doing business in, then I don't see that he can do anything different. If I were in his shoes I'd do what was in my best interest as a business owner. While I don't think he's responsible for how the state of Ohio uses that information, I do think he owes it to his out of state customers to let them know that this has happened. And while it may not happen to them, it'll be up to the buyer to decide if they wish to purchase or not. At least they won't be surprised by an exaggerated penalty. I personally would think twice about ordering...at least until I can figure out my state's tobacco tax laws.
Dan
He could move out of a state that doesn't observe a reasonable expectation of privacy on consumer purchasing habits.
Like others mentioned, I don't need Ohio releasing to Colorado what cigars I'm buying and how much. As an aside, I did propose some 'outside the box' thinking to help avoid the penalty. It involved me providing to the state of CO a return receipt showing me not owning the cigars anymore and I could actually even return the cigars since the box is still sealed. That idea wasn't received very warmly. In his fairness, he does have a blanket CYA page under his shipping tab.
I'm know I'm not the first person ordering from him in CO. This isn't even my first time ordering from him. It is, however, the first time in the 5 years I've ordered stuff online from maybe 6 or 7 different states that this has happened. I also happen to order stuff online at least half a dozen times during the year. I do also go to several B&Ms in my area and have talked to many guys about ordering stuff online. None of them has ever mentioned a tax penalty. A small sampling, yes, but I think still somewhat valid.
Because of my experience, I still stand behind my decision to cease purchasing stuff from him. The idea of my state knowing my online purchasing habits and having to voluntarily give them money within 30 days of receiving cigars doesn't agree with my sensibilities.
I agree with you in respect to the dumb luck in my invoice getting pulled.
Let me add this since I didn't mention what I purchased and my previous mention of it was purposefully subtle. The box of Monsters I purchased was $130. The taxable amount on the letter I posted says $65, which is half of what I paid. Why is that? To help me out tax wise? How would I have known to only pay tax on half of what I bought?
I'm going to start calling all the online vendors I've used and start asking them what sort of information they may or may not voluntarily give out.
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C'mon man...the Mass libs are amateurs compared to my homies out here in the Golden State. Two words...Nancy Pelosi. Top that!:facerub:
California would collect a tax like this if they could afford to. Problem is, they don't have enough money to hire people to write the collection letters and lick the stamps.
danthebugman
BoM Nov '10
I think it may have to do with the tax law. They're only taxed on the price paid to the manufacturer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I read the MO tobacco tax and maybe it's different for OH or CO or whatever state.
Dan
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Palmettoguy
42-28'48'' N
That would be correct...at least thats the way I read it.
Was just asked by my tax person if I made any internet purchases last year that needs to be reported to the Wisconsin Dept of Revenue. According to her, Wisconsin is getting more diligent at collected taxes from online vendors. Next we will have to sign a affidavit that states you've revealed all internet purchases on your tax form! :grinFU:
A few thoughts....
This is insane. 500%? Sorry, that is just nuts.
Anyone from Cali look into this? I can't seem to find what Cali residents need to pay. And what's the penalty if they don't.
Dan seems like a good guy and I don't think anyone should expect him to lie to the government about business stuff. I do think however it should be clearly stated on his site, if it is already its not clear or I'm blind having missed it many times.
This is insane. 500%? Sorry, that is just nuts.
Anyone from Cali look into this? I can't seem to find what Cali residents need to pay. And what's the penalty if they don't.
Dan seems like a good guy and I don't think anyone should expect him to lie to the government about business stuff. I do think however it should be clearly stated on his site, if it is already its not clear or I'm blind having missed it many times.
danthebugman
BoM Nov '10
For sure!
Those are probably your best bet, since they don't have any cigar taxes. But, it's really a chance you take no matter where you order from, unless it's over seas. Definitely won't be buying from OH again though.
On a side note, has anybody tried purchasing cigars with one of those name brand credit cards that you can buy at the grocery store, then put money on, like a gift card? It occurred to me, that you could use one of those and a different name, perhaps?
