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College is a crap shoot

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My son is 17. He's very bright and plans on going to an engineering school. The ones we've visited cost $40-50K. A year. Just tuition. And that's typical. Are you ******* kidding me!? Now I know that financial aid and grants will knock that down somewhat, but really what's the ROI on college education?

I'm 52 and, though I've attended college, never received a degree. I did get practical hands on technical training in the military. I was able to parlay that that into further various high-tech jobs. Now none of my high school friends make significantly more money than I do nor are their families better off than mine. And they all graduated 30 years ago when college cost a fraction of what it does now. I also expect that I'll retire before most of them.

Now, I realize that my situation is not typical and that, on the whole, college grads command better salaries than none. But how much will it suck to enter the job market already saddled with $100K or more of student debt? I'm glad I was not stuck with that at 22. Who's getting rich when tuitions have increased 60% in a decade? There's a lot of talk lately about keeping student loan interest at 3.4% instead of 6.8%. BFD, it's still a huge load.

When I was a kid, vocational technical school was looked down on as the place to send the kids who were too dumb or too poor for college. Now my daughter attends one and the competition to get accepted there was fierce. So maybe she'll enter the workforce making, perhaps, $20-30K less than her college peers. But she also won't be spending the following decades paying back large sums of money that she never imagined. It's hard to quantify the stress that can cause, especially when you're just some kid still trying to figure out life.
 
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I have no idea! I just graduated and fortunately I had the VA to take care of my tuition at $23,000/yr. If I had to pay for college I very likely wouldn't have gone. It's so expensive and unless things turn around the disparity between student loan debt and salaries will continue to grow. I'm pro-military first then college second. I got my partying out while military, and took school seriously.
 
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I say go vocational. At least your children, and anyone else, for that matter, will get a useful skill that can be applied in real life. Military is awesome too. Tons of options in the military. Just gotta bust your ass to prove you deserve the gig. That goes for both. I took a 2 year auto tech program at a community college. Now I am a service tech for a good company, and I have a small amount of school loans to pay off, where as, some guys attended UTI, and they're paying 45k, plus or minus a few thousand. Not saying big name vocational schools are bad, but shop around before you hop on the bandwagon. I paid about seven times less than UTI tuition, and received the same education.
 

carholio

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I think he / you are going to have to suck it up. I don't know any "real" engineers without degrees. Maybe have him go to the local community college for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school?

I paid 50k (total) for my daughters teaching degree from a state school - maybe that is an option since state schools cost less? I figure she got a teaching job as soon as she graduated so i think it was money well spent on her future. She wouldn't be a teacher without the degree.
 
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thejavaman

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... have him go to the local community college for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school?...
That's the route my wife & I went. Best decision we ever made. All of our credits transferred and it cut the costs/borrowing down significantly. Sure, we still have student loan debt between the two of us, but it's far less than it could have been...
 

gibbleguts

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Wouldn't you like to know?
It really depends where you are as well. Surprising what geography will do for you. Living where up here in an oil rich province it depends what you are going to school for. Trades are in many cases out paying may other jobs. You get paid from day one and may not make a lot starting at $30-40k a year but after 4 years you should be ticketed and $80-100k a year. Depends on trades and skill level but it is not in common to make a $1000 a day as a lead for many sites.
 

Fourtotheflush

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1- increase in college tuition really sucks, and with any luck I will be putting both my kids into good schools.

2- I wouldn't interview anyone today without a college education for relatively entry level work.
 
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When I first started college 3 years ago, I believe the statistic was that a college grad makes 1,000,000$ more in a lifetime than someone with just a HS diploma... I know this can't be the norm but it speaks to the fact that college opens more doors than just HS
 

cartisdm

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I graduated two years ago and let me tell you, the college debt sucks. Every month a large chunk of my income goes to pay off my college. I'm also putting over 10% of my paycheck to retirement which my employer adds in another 6%.

So yeah, between retirement and my college debt sometimes I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of "fun money" but I wouldn't have that job without my degree.

On the other hand, college took up four years. I could've easily used that time to start something on my own. If your son is of that mindset, leave it up to him. Successful people will be successful no matter what. Don't stress too much about the path he takes.
 
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I think most of those stats are padded. I know tons of my college buddies who work $10-$14 an hour jobs in their field with 4 year degrees. Same degrees that were supposedly paying $70k-110k per year.
 

Skitalets

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You're right to be skeptical. There is a premium for college degrees in some fields. If your son is interested in engineering, computer science, or other high-demand fields, sign him up. If he wants to major in creative writing, it may not pay off. Community college first, attending a state school and learning some kind of skill in addition to the degree, even steering him toward voc-ed makes sense over an expensive liberal arts school.

Many of my classmates from my expensive liberal arts undergrad are underemployed working jobs you don't need a degree for, and I'm almost 10 years out of undergrad.
 
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My education has been a great investment that has paid for itself many times over. I think it's all about what he wants to do. If he wants to be an engineer, college is required and maybe grad school as well. But it's a career with a lot of potential upside if you work hard and are good at it.

It's a choice... But whatever path he picks, he can be successful...it's going to depend largely on how hard he works and how well he hones his craft.

Don't forget as well it's all about what makes you happy....
 

dpricenator

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His Federal Student loans will qualify off of your income until he is 24. If he were...imancipated...and was going to live on his own or have a different address than yours (tax filings, and paycheck stubs would prove this). Of course you lose him for a write off on your taxes. The reason I say this is that he will not get as many grants and loans with you and your wife's income. So that leaves you taking out Parent plus loans at 8.5%...at least he will qualify for some Subsidized loans so the interest won't accrue as fast. Also his loans have lower interest rates. Avoid private student loans if you can.
 
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College is a good idea if he is intending to get into a profession that requires a degree, such as engineering. But, if he's planning on going to college to "find himself", I for one don't agree with that aspect of "college life". Perhaps a decade or two ago, you could afford to attend college, try a few things out, and figure out what really speaks to you. Not anymore though, the cost has reached such extreme heights that unless you're planning on a specific profession with a well thought out "battle plan", you simply aren't ready for college.

I graduated high school at 14, and was immediately accepted into Stanford University, some gifted bull shit program. I went for two years, decided it wasn't for me, and haven't stepped foot back in a University/College/CommCol. To be honest with you, I was too young, simple as that. Do I regret that? Nope, not even a little. College wasn't for me, still isn't. I'm currently a Gas Tanker driver, bringing home very good coin, and enjoying what I do. Just because you don't attend college doesn't mean you won't make anything of yourself, or your life, as you well know. It also doesn't mean you're any less intelligent, or somehow a college graduate has a higher IQ. (I can guarantee you I have a higher IQ than 99.99% of current graduates, and it doesn't mean shit.)

My youngest sister was just accepted into her graduate school to become a Doctor. Want to hear something sad? I am making more money than she will, and that's without $300k+ in student loans.

I'm not saying college is a bad thing, bad idea or a bad decision. I'm just saying, make sure your son is going for the right reason. Also, have a heart to heart with him, have him do some soul searching as to whether he is actually ready for the commitment of going to college. Many people haven't been ready for what awaits them within those walls, and it's an expensive lesson to learn. If he decides to wait, there isn't a single thing wrong with that, maturity usually helps when making life altering decisions. ;)
 
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2- I wouldn't interview anyone today without a college education for relatively entry level work.
That's fine when it pertains to specific professions. I should hope anybody interviewing for a head of Pediatric position would have a college education. BUT, entry level work has very different meanings in some peoples minds. Entry level in my opinion is sweeping a floor, or flipping a burger. Positions that require no previous training/education concerning the work/profession you're being hired to complete. Requiring a college education to complete these menial jobs would be both intellectually foolish, and fiscally foolish. Therefore, if we break down this statement into it's true meaning, I would gravitate towards the idea that your idea of "entry level" is pertaining to a specific position requiring prior training on a collegiate level to achieve acceptable completion. This is further italicized by the addition of the word, "relatively" within the statement.

In other words, don't go around under the false impression that if your son were not to attend college, that he wouldn't even be interviewed for any available position. If I were he though, I wouldn't push college to the side and put in my application for that open position at the local firm, the interview likely won't occur, heh. ;)
 
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Sounds like you need to do some more research. First, what it takes to become a registered engineer, what school degree it requires, what schools are accredited, how much work after school, etc. Then you may find it requires a good 4 year education. Then look at schools with high hiring rates in that degree. I know my school has a great ranking for engineering and a high hire rate with a substantial starting salary. Then look at salaries for the respective schools and compare that to the education costs. I'd say that four years of my life to prepare me for the rest is worth it, especially considering the alternative of working twice as hard to get to the same place.
 

cartisdm

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But, if he's planning on going to college to "find himself", I for one don't agree with that aspect of "college life". Perhaps a decade or two ago, you could afford to attend college, try a few things out, and figure out what really speaks to you.
I hate this. You have no idea how many kids I saw in college living off mommy and daddy's dollar and will graduate without any debt (themselves) because they aren't paying for tuition either. None of them worked unless it was an odd job here or there to get beer money. They switched majors 3 and 4 times, took 5 years to graduate in "General Studies" or "History" because it was all they could do with their worthless classes. Upon graduation they bought into this whole "poor economy" thing and complained that there weren't any jobs available. Guess what, you actually have to APPLY for jobs. Did any of them do that? Of course not. So they all moved back to their parents house (rent free) and took another year to figure out what they wanted to do.

Sorry for the rant but please, please don't handicap your child by letting him figure out his life without realizing how much money is (potentially) going down the drain. Sure, college is a hell of a lot of fun -- but so is life. I didn't do anything in college that I don't do now except buy more expensive toys. My best friend worked his ass off and went to a community college nearby my university and we split a room to save on rent. Had the time of our lives but we still both worked 20-30 hours a week with a full class schedule. He has an associates degree, is debt free, and making very good money as a project manager in an IT company (because he put in the time as a developer first)
 
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