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College is a crap shoot

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Encourage your children to go to a local community school for 2 years work their ass off get a 4.0 then they can really go to any school they want and it will only be 1/2 the price. Or have them look at State schools. I graduated from SUNY Stony Brook and the tuition there is cheaper than the tuition at the private high school I attended from 2000-2004
 
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Guess I will add my opinion here too:
I suggest to anyone to start at community college to get your gen eds out of the way first. I went straight to a private, Catholic college, changed my major 3 times and ended up dropping out. I have since attempted college 2 more times and dropped out. Now, I have no degree but still will be paying the loans from the University for another 6ish years. Unless you are going into the trades, try and save yourself money and headache. Also dont be afraid to admit that college isnt' for everyone. I would rather see someone spend 4k at the local junior college for a year or two than drop 28k/yr to figure it out (like me)!

Also, out of me and my 3 best friends, I am the only one without a college degree. One of them finally got a good job 5yrs after graduating and it has nothing to do with his degree. One got his bachelors, ended up going back and getting an associates and is doing something with that degree (his BA is useless now). And the third got a good job right out of college, using his degree, and hates his job. We all make roughly the same amount of money.
 

keinreis

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1- increase in college tuition really sucks, and with any luck I will be putting both my kids into good schools.

2- I wouldn't interview anyone today without a college education for relatively entry level work.
So if someone had say 15 years practical experience in a field, you would not give them a shot? I went to college for a short time, and had plans on being an architect. I was working doing graphic arts while attending. I decided I enjoyed it more then I thought, and stuck with it. I now have 20 years practical experience, and do not see how someone with a 4 year college education could possibly have an edge. Of that 4 years, how many hours are spent actually taking classes that directly relate?

Side Note to back up my point. My last job I replaced a 23 year old that had a 4 year degree from Florida State University. He lasted 3 months, and the had to let him go, because he didn't have a creative bone in his body, and his knowledge of what was required to work in the field was inadequate.

I know some fields it is required (Architect, Doctor, Engineer...) but most Companies could actually benefit from hiring younger people, and letting them work up into a job they enjoy. My grandfather was hired as a pipe fitter for a company that manufactured equipment that was used in tire manufacturing when he was young. He worked hard, and showed he had a loyalty to the company, and eventually they moved him into the drafting department. He ended up with many patents for ideas he created that the company used. Some of his designs are still in use today. After many years with that company he was approached by B.F. Goodrich to come aboard and head up their engineering projects. He worked for them for the rest of his life making an incredible salary.

There was a time when large companies hired from within, and employees stayed with a company for years. Loyalty was developed by doing this, and workers stayed with the companies a lot longer. Perfect example IMO is Drew Estate. I have been to his facility in Nica 3 times now, and his outlook on his workers is what makes his company unique. He promotes from within, and it works well. There is a ton of respect by his employees. When he walks thru the factory, the workers at all levels continue to smile, and conduct themselves the same way they would if he was not around. This shows he has created an environment where the workers feel comfy and enjoy their job. The turnover rate at a lot of companies is out of control IMO.
 
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1- increase in college tuition really sucks, and with any luck I will be putting both my kids into good schools.

2- I wouldn't interview anyone today without a college education for relatively entry level work.
I have a friend who is a HR manager with a nationwide firm and its a requirement for any position. Sad but true, you could have the best candidate with a ton of experience and they'll get overlooked as they go into the "not qualified" pile. G1
 
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The mrs and I started a south carolina 529 savings plan for my son the day we got his social security number. 4 years later invested balance is over $10,000.

I hope to offer my son what was offered to me, a debt free eduction.

I feel for those burdened with eduction debt. It's almost your damned if you do get a education and damned if you don't.
 
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The mrs and I started a south carolina 529 savings plan for my son the day we got his social security number. 4 years later invested balance is over $10,000.
We have those for each of our kids too. Returns on those have been in single digits. That money will be spent in no time.
 

Fox

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U.S. News this morning offers a brutal reality check to those seeking anything other than engineering, science, business or technology related degrees. Clinton, your son is on the right track. How to get there is the question.

FWIW - I did it much like AZ and finished at age 35. My wife did it the traditional way right out of high school and we had to pay off her school debts early in our marriage. We both worked and made good money for a number of years. I had attended community college earlier in life and finished most of the general requirements. I gave up a good job and went full time between the ages of 33 and 35 because I discovered that certain doors in life were closed to me without a college degree. Going to school over time turned out to be one of the greatest decisions we ever made. Years of broad experience, my age and a degree in computer science landed me an instant job requiring a degree and paid huge life and financial dividends. I was far more fortunate than most on the cost side. In my state, veterans who served in SE Asia pay only 1/3 tuition, by law in any state accredited university or college. Our costs were easily managed and I graduated with no debt.

When young people ask me how to do it today I tell them the same road I took is still open. Consider the military option to start your life. Think about going to a community college while doing something that may not be a life goal, but is something valuable to an employer that you do not hate. The trades are still great places to work while pursuing your education. I was a certified welder for a time, became a heavy equipment operator and ended up driving a tractor trailer before finishing college. I was skilled and able to make decent wages when needed. An acquaintance was a journeyman electrician and took a similar path and is now an electrical engineer with his PE. All of those experiences allow one to pay the bills before and during college especially if you cannot reach your educational goals in a short time frame. Colleges want you to take the traditional track and do not care about your degree choice. As always, follow the money.

Like others have noted, in our company, for any professional, managerial or technical position you must have a college degree for H.R. to even keep your application.
 

cartisdm

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Another thing my Dad used to tell me constantly was if I was going to work for someone else, I need continue my education my whole life. Degrees, qualifications, training, etc. Pieces of paper are often the only thing that separate you from a great job/promotion. However, if you are going to go on and work for yourself, start as early as possible because you're going to mess up but the payoff will be grand
 

Fia

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Im very familiar with this whole process being that I teach a senior elective class that helps students through the college admissions process. My seniors this year have reached 8 mil in merit scholarships they have won. There is no one best way to get your education. Public, private, vocational, etc? Each case is different. Each scenario has different pros and cons.

Here are some randoms thoughts I have based on some comments already made and ones Im always faced with:

Community colleges - yes can save you money to take your core classes and then transfer to a 4 yr college. It is a great way to save money if you transfer to another public institution in the same state. However, if you transfer to a private school the savings you made the first two years might not outweigh the loss in fin aid you will get as a freshman vs a transfer student. Private schools always give the best packages to true freshmen. Im not even talking about need based aid just the merit aid offered. I have lots of students who are attending very expensive private schools because the aid offered to them brought the cost down to less than what it would be to attend a public in-state school. If you transfer to another public institution in another state, you may have missed the boat for their tuition exchange programs. Many regions offer something along those lines. Case in point, if one of my kids chose to go to a community college and then transfer to the university of Oregon they would miss out on the WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange) scholarship. UofO only offers it to true freshmen. Savings on that scholarship is over 12K per year. Another draw back to community colleges is that many do not have good matriculation/graduation rates. Research the statistics at your community college. Often students who go that route end up spending 3 or more years before earning their AA or transferring to a 4 year college. Every extra year in community college is one less year earning a real income when you earn your degree. So is community college the best route? That depends on your situation. I would strongly encourage you do your research on all options so you can make a sound decision.

Independent status: Its not that easy to prove that you are independent when you are under 24 yrs of age. Its not as easy as just getting your own address. If that was the case everyone would do it. It is a decision made by each school on a cases by case basis. I have found that the larger universities are very inflexible with this situation and smaller private schools are more accommodating. They will not grant it simply because the student doesnt get along with their parents. It has to be some kind of situation with extenuating circumstances. Parent incarcerated, no physical contact for a number of years with parents (must be proven), have been in foster care, etc.

Becoming a resident of another state to get in-state tuition rates: Many states have closed a lot of loopholes for this. Basically in the minimum you have to be in that state for at least one year for non educational purposes. You will also have to prove that you are supporting yourself without the help of your parents. They will look at your income compared to your living expenses and bank statements to verify all that. Also keep in mind if you do become a resident of another state you are no longer a resident of your home state if you ever decide you want to come home to finish college. Ive seen that happen.

Student loan debt: I cringe when I hear stories of students graduating from college 100K + in debt. Some student debt is a good investment in your future too much debt outweighs the positive gains in income. I like to compare it to buying a car. If you cant afford the car loan, get a less expensive car!!! I always advise my students to reconsider their choice of school when I see them looking for alternative loans to make up the difference from the federal loans that are offered. There are two basic federal loans offered the direct subsidized and direct unsubsidized (there is also a perkins loan but that is need based and limited). One way to minimize the compounding of the interest on an unsubsidized loan is to pay the interest while you are in college so that it wont compound during your 4 years of school.

Private schools: Many parents see the tuition on the brochure and faint. Dont write off a private school based on tuition. You rarely pay the sticker price. Again depending on your situation you could get a very good package. There are many factors they consider when offering aid to a prospective student including: major chosen (that can have a big impact), ethnicity, geographic diversity, volunteer activities, associations, etc. I have many students attending private schools because it cost them less money than our local public university.

Trade schools: I always advocate a trade school if that is in fact what the student is interested in. However, if your kid is interested in the sciences for example, it makes no sense to send them to welding school!!!

I could write a lot more but my fingers are getting tired!!! LOL
 
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The 4 or so years at college are more than certificate on the wall. There are a lot of experiences you can look back fondly on, and contacts you can build.

For a simple cost/benefit though, no, it isn't always worth it. My coworkers in the office are all made up of different people. My boss and a partner in the company did not graduate. A couple have degrees unrelated to what they are doing. Another doesn't have one. I do, though it took me a while to get it as I was working while I went to night classes. That being said, we all work at a staffing agency and almost all of our placements have a Masters degree (95%+). I've never seen us place someone without at least a 4 year.

My wife has a 4 year liberal arts degree, and while it probably made her a better thinker, it hasn't done her any good in the employment market yet (still in her 20s though). Thankfully the cost was paid by her family, so she has no student loans.

I have friends that skipped college and are doing fine... and I know people that went and aren't.

Think of degrees as a multiplier. They can help you get up there, but they don't do the work for you. Some jobs are a LOT easier to get if you have one, and some are absolutely required for it. Of course, you don't need a $100k+ degree either. Go to a community college, then a state college and once you get that first job, it almost doesn't matter where the degree came from.
 
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It really depends where you are as well. Surprising what geography will do for you. Living where up here in an oil rich province it depends what you are going to school for. Trades are in many cases out paying may other jobs. You get paid from day one and may not make a lot starting at $30-40k a year but after 4 years you should be ticketed and $80-100k a year. Depends on trades and skill level but it is not in common to make a $1000 a day as a lead for many sites.
Exactly right, my Uncle is head over heavy machinery in Fort McMurray, Ab. with the oil fields. He offered me a position making $60/hr running Titan dump trucks. His daughter is one of his lower level operators, and she's making nearly $200k/yr. By the way, she has a finance degree and got out of a Bank management position to become a driver, more than tripling her income.

Investigate, investigate, investigate! Before you make ANY decision in life, investigate!
 

Cigary43

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If one wants to be in a select career path ( Doctor, Engineer, Lawyer,,,etc.) it is a no brainer for that person to understand that a professional degree is to be attained. I don't know many who can short cut their way into those professions w/o going through the guantlet. Now, if one wants to be encumbered with going through this guantlet be prepared for $100K to $200K loans behind you that you'll be accountable for. Nothing like starting out in the hole is there?

There are other career paths that don't have to have degrees but you'll have to work harder than most to get ahead but the good news is that you won't be having to pay back a $200K student loan for the next 10-15 years either. I started out as an entry level worker at Weyerhaeuser and worked my way up to being a Plant Manager and finished my career after 25 years....it can be done with focus and hard work.
 

gibbleguts

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Exactly right, my Uncle is head over heavy machinery in Fort McMurray, Ab. with the oil fields. He offered me a position making $60/hr running Titan dump trucks. His daughter is one of his lower level operators, and she's making nearly $200k/yr. By the way, she has a finance degree and got out of a Bank management position to become a driver, more than tripling her income.

Investigate, investigate, investigate! Before you make ANY decision in life, investigate!
I spend a lot of time in fort Mac and it is a shitty place but the money is fantastic. If you ever go to visit let me know as you will have to come through Edmonton to get there and we can go for a smoke.
 
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I spend a lot of time in fort Mac and it is a shitty place but the money is fantastic. If you ever go to visit let me know as you will have to come through Edmonton to get there and we can go for a smoke.
Yea it is, that's why I turned down the offer, heh.

I certainly will, that would be great. :)
 
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The 4 or so years at college are more than certificate on the wall. There are a lot of experiences you can look back fondly on, and contacts you can build.

For a simple cost/benefit though, no, it isn't always worth it. My coworkers in the office are all made up of different people. My boss and a partner in the company did not graduate. A couple have degrees unrelated to what they are doing. Another doesn't have one. I do, though it took me a while to get it as I was working while I went to night classes. That being said, we all work at a staffing agency and almost all of our placements have a Masters degree (95%+). I've never seen us place someone without at least a 4 year.

My wife has a 4 year liberal arts degree, and while it probably made her a better thinker, it hasn't done her any good in the employment market yet (still in her 20s though). Thankfully the cost was paid by her family, so she has no student loans.

I have friends that skipped college and are doing fine... and I know people that went and aren't.

Think of degrees as a multiplier. They can help you get up there, but they don't do the work for you. Some jobs are a LOT easier to get if you have one, and some are absolutely required for it. Of course, you don't need a $100k+ degree either. Go to a community college, then a state college and once you get that first job, it almost doesn't matter where the degree came from.
Too many college graduates assume walking into an interview with a degree in hand is going to land them some amazing high paying job. Simply put, a college degree is just going to get you on a level playing field with the other 150 college graduates applying for the same job. College students need to fight and claw for internships and gain real life working experience so that when you do go looking for your first job out of college you have a leg-up on every other college graduate with the same degree.

As far as it being worth it... for some it is and some it is not worth the cost/benefit. Both my wife and I are both college graduates and both lucky to have great jobs in today's economy. But for a lot of people college is a waste of money and time. For example my wife is a job-recruiter/headhunter in the creative field; she recently placed a 16 year old high school student in a company developing iPhone apps for $65 an hour. It is cases like that throughout the creative field that college is not worth it. On the other hand my sister works in HR for a large "fortune 500" company and will not even hire someone without a college degree; that degree must also be in the specific field that the job requires or else it is not even looked at.

I think especially in today's economy it is one of the hardest decisions a junior/senior high school student and parent must make. At the end of the day though, "where there's a will there's a way".
 
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I never went to college and instead took up a trade. I have zero student loans a very high paying job and was able to get into the work force right out of high school. my wife has a degree in graphic design that does her no good because of a saturated market.
Personally I feel to much emphasis is put on college. I was told through out school that I needed a degree. The world will always need plumbers/carpenters/electricians/machinists. since the majority go to college for white collar jobs the blue collar world has really great opportunity's with the majority of its workforce retiring and nobody new coming in.
 
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As many said, community college for 2 years is the way to go. I'm currently finishing up at community college while working full time and I am having no issues paying for it myself. 90% of the people I speak to wish they did it this way. It's a tough choice but find out what will work best for you
 
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