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Getting ready to make a handgun purchase in a month or so. This will not be CC weapon, it will be for home defense and just because I like going to the range and shooting. I have read all of the handgun threads and will do a lot of testing before purchase. The one pistol I have on my list to try, but have not seen mention in any of the the other threads, is the Ruger SR in 9mm and .40.

http://ruger.com/products/sr40/models.html

Wondering if anyone here has any experience with this particular model?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

vperlman

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No experience with that gun, but a general question for you. Since the gun isn't for CC, size and weight aren't major considerations. In fact, especially in a .40, extra weight is a plus in terms of comfort and fatigue. Because of that, I wonder if you really need/want a gun that is part plastic/nylon for these purposes. I carry concealed all the time, and most of my guns are plastic because of that, but for home defense and/or the range, I would probably opt for all metal. JMO, YMMV.
 
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No experience with that gun, but a general question for you. Since the gun isn't for CC, size and weight aren't major considerations. In fact, especially in a .40, extra weight is a plus in terms of comfort and fatigue. Because of that, I wonder if you really need/want a gun that is part plastic/nylon for these purposes. I carry concealed all the time, and most of my guns are plastic because of that, but for home defense and/or the range, I would probably opt for all metal. JMO, YMMV.
Thanks. That is a consideration that I had not thought of. That does make sense. I have shot a lot of 9mm, but anything above that caliber I have only shot through a revolver. Is there s significant difference in muzzle jump between 9MM and .40 given the same barrel length? Or is that more a product of the load of the cartridge?
 
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Actually, at least for me, 9mm is going to have a much snappier recoil feel than 40, which is more of a dull push.

That said, 40 short & weak is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It doesn't greatly improve on old standards in any significant way. For your money, go with 9mm, 45acp, or 10mm in an auto or. 357 possibly downloaded with. 38+p in a revolver. My two cents.
 
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I think 9mm is a little small for home defense, Cheaper to shoot at the range though. I am fancy to Colt Commanders, Model 70. Anybody breaking into your house no matter how much PCP and Meth they have smoked will not be running at you after a hit with a 45 slug. 9mm might just piss them off, I like The 40's Springfield makes. Good luck in your quest.
 

mdwest

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Here are my thoughts...

The first thing you have to accept when looking at a handgun for personal defense (whether CCW or home defense) is that pistols are piss poor man stoppers.. their ability to drop someone in their tracks is minimal.. even with multiple hits to vitals.. unless you manage a hit to the medula (a target the size of a golfball.. thats going to be on a moving target, likely in the dark, etc..).. the hollywood verision of what happens in shootout simply isnt going to happen (you arent going to achieve 1 shot, flacid paralysis... your target is going to continue to be a threat for several seconds.. or several minutes.. depending on where you hit them.. which is more than enough time to do harm to you in a deadly force encounter)....

20 years ago there was a significant different in "one shot stop" capability in the most common handgun calibers/rounds.. common defense loads for .45's for example substantially out performmed 9mm...

That really isnt the case anymore..

Bullet technology and design has improved.. A LOT... new powders are on the market that allow bullets to fly faster.. most modern pistols are built to take higher pressure loads.. so you can push larger projectiles even hotter/faster... round expansion is more reliable.. etc..

Where I am going with this is.... you can load a 9mm almost just as hot as a .40 these days.. the .40 is going to have a bigger/heavier bullet.. which is nice if you are dealing with someone that is larger, is wearing heavier clothing (like a leather jacket, etc..).. its easier to reach vitals.. but thats really about the only advantage..

Youre in Florida.. the likelyhood of a 285 lb lumberjack, wearing a biker jacket sneaking into your house at 2AM to try to kill you is pretty low.. you are much more likely to encounter a 140lb meth or crack head in a t-shirt and board shorts.. reaching vitals with just about any modern military or police round (9mm, .40, .45, .357 sig) is simply not an issue..

As a result, I am an advocate of carrying the largest caliber pistol that you can reliably control and make accurate/fast hits with... one of the tests I put people I have trained to is the ability to keep all hits within a fist sized group at a distance of 10 meters (much further than any shot you are going to take in the average home.. or even on the street in a self defense situation), with less than a 1 second interval between shots...

If you cant do that.. you are either shooting too much gun.. or you need more practice (or both)..

For most people.. this makes the 9mm the natural choice (less recoil, very naturally accurate, etc..)..

As far as the make/model of the pistol is concerned.. I understand that you say you have no intention of CCW.. but you never know if that situation is going to change..

something to consider is that whatever gun you are going to shoot... whether to defend your home, ccw, hunt, or recreationally, etc.. you want to be an absoute master of...

I would not encourage someone to purchase one platform for one task.. and then have a different platform for others.. this will slow down your reaction time, can potentially hinder your accuracy, etc..

you need to pick one platform.. and stick with it.. you dont want to be trying to figure out where the slide stop is, how to efficiently get a new mag into the magwell, where the safety is, trying to pick up your sights rapidly, etc..etc.. in the middle of a gunfight... your body and mind need to be in tune with the tool you are using.. if youre fumbling around because you carry a G19 on the street, but have a ruger as your bedside home defense pistol, and when you go to the range you like to shoot your hot rod 1911 in 38 super.. you are going to loose precious seconds that could mean the difference is winning and loosing the fight in a deadly force encounter..

If you think the ruger fits all possible needs and uses not only for today.. but also for the future.. cool.. go with it..

If you see a potential hole in that plan (isnt practical for CCW, doesnt fit your hand.. so you dont enjoy shooting it.. so you dont take it to the range much.. etc..)... then you need to look for another option..

I have not shot an SR pistol.. but my experience with ruger is they are generally decent pistols.. they are more than reliable enough.. accurate enough.. etc..

the one drawback I have found with most of them is that they arent what I would call "heavy use" pistols.. they arent going to take the abuse or stand up to the round count that a glock, sig, most S&W, etc.. are going to...

If your intention is to go to the range weekly and put a couple of hundred rounds through it.. and expect the pistol to last you a lifetime... I would probably go with something else.. (you can get hundreds of thousands of rounds out of a glock.. and onlly have to replace the springs every once in a while.. you arent going to do that with a ruger..)...

If you want to go to the range once every couple of weeks and put a box of 50 through it.... as long as you maintain it.. the ruger will likely last you the rest of your life..

sorry for the long, rambling post.. been a while since I have taught firearms formally.... but... ive been around the block a few times... and have a pretty detailed opinion.. although I recognize that it is not 100% shared by all.... (Im a former FBI Firearms Instructor, TN POST Firearms Instructor, AR POST Firearms Instructor, NRA Firearms Instructor, TN DOT (CCW) Firearms Instructor, Glock Armorer, Sig Armorer, etc..etc..)...
 
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That is some great advice MD. Thanks and I will take all that into consideration. I will get my CC soon but probably won't carry until I get a lot more proficient. Here in Florida veterans can get it without going through the state course. As long as you don't have a BCD, have not become a felon and have copy of your DD214 you are good to go. Having said that. It has been a couple decades since I have fire a handgun on a regular basis, so I do plan on taking some refresher lessons.
 
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Here are my thoughts...

The first thing you have to accept when looking at a handgun for personal defense (whether CCW or home defense) is that pistols are piss poor man stoppers.. their ability to drop someone in their tracks is minimal.. even with multiple hits to vitals.. unless you manage a hit to the medula (a target the size of a golfball.. thats going to be on a moving target, likely in the dark, etc..).. the hollywood verision of what happens in shootout simply isnt going to happen (you arent going to achieve 1 shot, flacid paralysis... your target is going to continue to be a threat for several seconds.. or several minutes.. depending on where you hit them.. which is more than enough time to do harm to you in a deadly force encounter)....

20 years ago there was a significant different in "one shot stop" capability in the most common handgun calibers/rounds.. common defense loads for .45's for example substantially out performmed 9mm...

That really isnt the case anymore..

Bullet technology and design has improved.. A LOT... new powders are on the market that allow bullets to fly faster.. most modern pistols are built to take higher pressure loads.. so you can push larger projectiles even hotter/faster... round expansion is more reliable.. etc..

Where I am going with this is.... you can load a 9mm almost just as hot as a .40 these days.. the .40 is going to have a bigger/heavier bullet.. which is nice if you are dealing with someone that is larger, is wearing heavier clothing (like a leather jacket, etc..).. its easier to reach vitals.. but thats really about the only advantage..

Youre in Florida.. the likelyhood of a 285 lb lumberjack, wearing a biker jacket sneaking into your house at 2AM to try to kill you is pretty low.. you are much more likely to encounter a 140lb meth or crack head in a t-shirt and board shorts.. reaching vitals with just about any modern military or police round (9mm, .40, .45, .357 sig) is simply not an issue..

As a result, I am an advocate of carrying the largest caliber pistol that you can reliably control and make accurate/fast hits with... one of the tests I put people I have trained to is the ability to keep all hits within a fist sized group at a distance of 10 meters (much further than any shot you are going to take in the average home.. or even on the street in a self defense situation), with less than a 1 second interval between shots...

If you cant do that.. you are either shooting too much gun.. or you need more practice (or both)..

For most people.. this makes the 9mm the natural choice (less recoil, very naturally accurate, etc..)..

As far as the make/model of the pistol is concerned.. I understand that you say you have no intention of CCW.. but you never know if that situation is going to change..

something to consider is that whatever gun you are going to shoot... whether to defend your home, ccw, hunt, or recreationally, etc.. you want to be an absoute master of...

I would not encourage someone to purchase one platform for one task.. and then have a different platform for others.. this will slow down your reaction time, can potentially hinder your accuracy, etc..

you need to pick one platform.. and stick with it.. you dont want to be trying to figure out where the slide stop is, how to efficiently get a new mag into the magwell, where the safety is, trying to pick up your sights rapidly, etc..etc.. in the middle of a gunfight... your body and mind need to be in tune with the tool you are using.. if youre fumbling around because you carry a G19 on the street, but have a ruger as your bedside home defense pistol, and when you go to the range you like to shoot your hot rod 1911 in 38 super.. you are going to loose precious seconds that could mean the difference is winning and loosing the fight in a deadly force encounter..

If you think the ruger fits all possible needs and uses not only for today.. but also for the future.. cool.. go with it..

If you see a potential hole in that plan (isnt practical for CCW, doesnt fit your hand.. so you dont enjoy shooting it.. so you dont take it to the range much.. etc..)... then you need to look for another option..

I have not shot an SR pistol.. but my experience with ruger is they are generally decent pistols.. they are more than reliable enough.. accurate enough.. etc..

the one drawback I have found with most of them is that they arent what I would call "heavy use" pistols.. they arent going to take the abuse or stand up to the round count that a glock, sig, most S&W, etc.. are going to...

If your intention is to go to the range weekly and put a couple of hundred rounds through it.. and expect the pistol to last you a lifetime... I would probably go with something else.. (you can get hundreds of thousands of rounds out of a glock.. and onlly have to replace the springs every once in a while.. you arent going to do that with a ruger..)...

If you want to go to the range once every couple of weeks and put a box of 50 through it.... as long as you maintain it.. the ruger will likely last you the rest of your life..

sorry for the long, rambling post.. been a while since I have taught firearms formally.... but... ive been around the block a few times... and have a pretty detailed opinion.. although I recognize that it is not 100% shared by all.... (Im a former FBI Firearms Instructor, TN POST Firearms Instructor, AR POST Firearms Instructor, NRA Firearms Instructor, TN DOT (CCW) Firearms Instructor, Glock Armorer, Sig Armorer, etc..etc..)...
x3, Glad I put a good PIF together for you.
 
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The biggest difference between the 9mm and .40 or .45 is the "permanent cavity" created by the round.

The 9mm shoots much "hotter" and being smaller leaves a smaller permanent cavity, which means it the wound can close and they won't bleed out. A .40 or .45 leaves a bigger wound that is harder to close, thus having more blood loss. It's the critical factor the FBI/CIA look at when evaluating weapon ballistics. That being said, i don't care. As mdwest said, mastery of the weapon is critical. How you train will determine if you drop an intruder or not. I practice three shot groups, mozembique style...2 in the body, 1 in the head. If the two in the body doesn't stop them there is one more flying that will. You train to eliminate the threat, not injure the threat, which to means if it moves you shoot again.

Now, with all that taken into consideration, a shotgun is the best home defense weapon. Point in the general direction and pull the trigger. Aim isn't dead critical as it is with a pistol. There are some great self defense shotguns on the market.

One other thought, if you're not at home, is the wife or kids as good w/ your home defense weapon as you are? If not the pistol is again a bad choice. A shotgun will be easy for them to learn and have confidence in.
 

mdwest

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The biggest difference between the 9mm and .40 or .45 is the "permanent cavity" created by the round.
not at all correct.. perminant wound cavity is only one factor.. and its value is highly debated... the differences in kenetic energy delivered are substantial.. the difference in crush cavity is different.. etc..

that said.. all traditional military and police calibers are poor man stoppers..

people can argue 9mm vs .45 all day long.. (many do).. but at the end of the day.. when you look at the logs of trauma hospitals in cities known for violent crime.. and dig into the statsitics.. the truth is the vast majority of people that are shot with handguns in the US survive the encounter.. if you dont hit vitals.. you are likely not going to shut an assailant down.. depending on what vitals you hit (and a littany of other circumstances), how quickly that person shuts down varies greatly..

The 9mm shoots much "hotter" and being smaller leaves a smaller permanent cavity, which means it the wound can close and they won't bleed out. A .40 or .45 leaves a bigger wound that is harder to close, thus having more blood loss. It's the critical factor the FBI/CIA look at when evaluating weapon ballistics.
again, not really accurate.. a 147 gr 9mm is far less hot than a 125 gr .40 +p+ round.. a 115gr +p 9mm isnt as hot or as fast as a 125 gr .357 sig...

bleeding out is NOT something anyone considers in 2012 when looking at the capability of a pistol projectile... if you are waiting on the bad guy to bleed out.. you are going to be waiting a long time.. which is not something you want to be dealing with in a deadly force encounter.. Neither the FBI or the CIA consider blood loss a critical factor (again.. I am an FBI certified firearms instructor.. no where was this taught..).. shutting down the pumping station... yes... waiting for enough of the red gooey stuff to actually leave the body so that O2 isnt getting delivered and the brain turns off... not so much...

That being said, i don't care. As mdwest said, mastery of the weapon is critical. How you train will determine if you drop an intruder or not.
Not at all true.. where the shot lands, whether the shot hits deep enough to actually strike vitals (.32 and .380 arent your friend), and whether or not it delivers enough energy to actually disrupt the body will determine how quickly the bad guy goes bye bye..

you can be completely untrained.. but if you manage to put a 115 grain pill in the medula oblangota (im sure I just totally misspelled that).. you can 100% guarantee the bad guy is dropping on the spot.. you can also however be incredibly well trained.. put the same 115 grain pill into the head of a bad guy.. and then watch him shoot back at you for the next few seconds..

training helps you win gun fights... but it is no guarantee.. fights are dynamic.... there is a reason we have lost HUNDREDS of highly trained special operations people in Iraq and Afghanistan in CQB engagements over the past several years (KIA or severely WIA).. there is a reason we loose dozens of swat cops every year to lucky, untrained crack heads with $79 .22 cal ghetto gats.. training is part of the equation (a big part).. but it is not the sole, definitive answer..

I practice three shot groups, mozembique style...2 in the body, 1 in the head. If the two in the body doesn't stop them there is one more flying that will. You train to eliminate the threat, not injure the threat, which to means if it moves you shoot again.
nothing wrong with a mozembique drill.. but it is not the ultimate training answer.. again.. fights are dynamic.. people move.. there is cover, concealment, etc.. to factor in..

personally.. I train to shoot the center of the mass of the largest target presented.. if all I see is a leg.. Im shooting the middle of that..

regarding the eliminate the threat comment.. I agree somewhat.. but you need to be careful here.. sometimes it does not mean you shoot them again.. in a civilan setting this could equal jail time and law suits

Now, with all that taken into consideration, a shotgun is the best home defense weapon. Point in the general direction and pull the trigger. Aim isn't dead critical as it is with a pistol. There are some great self defense shotguns on the market.
strongly disagree here..

if all you have is a hammer... sooner or later everything begins to look like a nail..

there is no one perfect home defense weapon.. shotguns have advantages and disadvantages.. just like pistols and rifles do... what the right tool is, is dictated by the circumstances..

drawbacks of a shotgun include.. slow to reload.. recoil management.. over penetration.. lack of precision accuracy.. round selection (which can also be an advantage depending on the context)... weapon size.. weapon weight.. (among many others)..

One other thought, if you're not at home, is the wife or kids as good w/ your home defense weapon as you are? If not the pistol is again a bad choice. A shotgun will be easy for them to learn and have confidence in.
absolutely disagree.. most women.. and most children are very hard to train on shotguns... especially if you are talking about a shotgun that fits a medium or large framed man... length of pull, OAL of the weapon, recoil, etc.. are a challenge.. not to mention the "boom" intimidates many novice shooters..
 
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mdwest

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So much misinformation in this thread. Not even gonna touch it.
Im sincerely interested if you think the information I have put out is "misinformation"... (not being a smartass)...

there are several schools of thought.. several "studies".. and God only knows how many trainers out there teaching a huge variety of skills, techniques, and standards...

there are a handful of absolutes in the self defense world.. but not many..

hell.. you cant even get some people to agree on coopers 4 firearms safety rules anymore..
 
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I also have a Mossberg 500. I am adding the handgun because as mdwest stated, not one weapon is good for all circumstances. My wife has physical limitations, so the shotgun is not going to work for her. She has virtually no experience with firearms, so the first order of business for her is lessons. Then she can choose what she is comfortable with. My guess is that she will eventually choose a small frame hammer less revolver. Her attitude right now is, "I just want to point pull the trigger." I really appreciate all the advice and it has changed my initial thoughts on which way to go.
 
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Great thread guys, Im also wondering what the large amount of "misinformation" is (totally genuine). For me I find that a Glock 22 (40 caliber) and a Mossberg 500 make for a good protection start. I cant CC so my guns are for home defense and range shooting, with the understanding that if I ever needed to use them I would be able too without any hesitation or thought (AKA practice, practice, practice.) Any gun is useless, unless you know how to use it and are proficient with it. JMHO sorry to go a little off topic for the thread.
 
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Great thread guys, Im also wondering what the large amount of "misinformation" is (totally genuine). For me I find that a Glock 22 (40 caliber) and a Mossberg 500 make for a good protection start. I cant CC so my guns are for home defense and range shooting, with the understanding that if I ever needed to use them I would be able too without any hesitation or thought (AKA practice, practice, practice.) Any gun is useless, unless you know how to use it and are proficient with it. JMHO sorry to go a little off topic for the thread.
No worries about being off topic. I like learning what others are using. The Mossberg/Glock combo seems popular.
 
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As a retired Law Enforcement Officer and Police Instructor (Non-Firearms) I couldn't agree more with MD's posts. His training and experience clearly set him apart in this thread. His information is accurate and is posted in a very professional manner. Even so, he points out several times that there are many different points of view when it comes to firearms training and home defense.
 
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