KL/Beads/Crystals

[Griz]

I didn't want to highjack any other thread so Here I go,
First off, WOO HOO I just saw that my brand newair AW 281E is out for delivery today, should be on my porch when I get home and I have a 5 drawer set on order with Forest for the inside (purple heart fronts) so my questions are;
What is best for my humidification? I always used the crystals in a jar from CI in my smaller humidors and had good results with them, but I would need a lot to do that size fridge. What is the best way to go?
If I use KL, how does one go about using it?
will I need a fan for inside?
Is the beads better? and how much would I need and how are they used?
should I put what ever I use in old cedar cigar boxes rather than the jars the stuff comes in? can I keep it all down in the bottom or spread it out between the shelves?
sorry for all the questions, but I want to do this once and do it right. after spending as much as I did the misses may get a little hot is I screw up and need to redo something. Any and all advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[mdwest]

RH media is a much debated topic.. I think if you ask 10 people about it.. youll get a minimum of 15 different opinions and points of view lol...

To me.. its all about how much maintenance you are willing to do.. and whats important to you...

Just about anything will work.. from floral foam to beads.. if you set it up right... and then monitor it appropriately..

Some things to consider:
Cost
Convenience
Maintenance
Reliability

For me.. I dont like using the RH gels.. most of them come pre-set at 70 RH.. which is too moist for my taste.. and they require pretty regular maintenance.. I prefer KL.. its a lot more affordable than beads (although that is not at all why I selected it).. its convenient (I can go to any pet store in the area and pick some up and be back at my house in minutes).. its reliable... and once it is set up it is relatively low maintenance..

Lots of threads here on BOTL about the best way to get KL set up.. do a quick search.. or PM myself, rupe, cigary, or a number of other guys that use it and Im sure someone would be willing to walk you through the process..

If you choose to do beads.. its as simple as ordering the right quantity.. and the right RH.. and then simply putting them into your wineador..

as far as a fan is concerned.. I dont think its necessary in something the size of a AW281.. but it certainly wont hurt you..

hope this helps...

 

[StogieNinja]

1. Get an ETC ($20) on eBay, and you won't need a fan. The ETC will regulate temp appropriately, and give plenty of air circulation.

2. The advantage of beads or KL over other media is that its two way. It will absorb extra rh if the rh climbs too high. I use KL in mine. Drawback: you need more of it in there. Pro : waaaaay cheaper.

 

[pbibby]

I personally use HCM Clay beads. I love them and have literally done NOTHING to maintain them. I throw in a couple of 65 boveda packs and that's that. But really you can't go wrong as long as you monitor whatever you are using.

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[Griz]

What are HCM clay beads and where do I get them? Do they need water or anything added to them?
What is an ETC and do I add water or anything to the KL or just use it dry?
Sorry for being so stupid, I just never went this route before and I want to get it right.

 

[jmartins]

What are HCM clay beads and where do I get them? Do they need water or anything added to them?
What is an ETC and do I add water or anything to the KL or just use it dry?
Sorry for being so stupid, I just never went this route before and I want to get it right.

Griz it's not a stupid question. Clay beads are sold on a few cigar sites that carry accessories.

KL needs water added to them. You just need to use a spray bottle and then just spray them. Not to much just a couple of sprays. Every 2 sprays is roughly 1%RH. So you start by putting the beads with a hygrometer that is properly calibrated and then place it in a sealed container with the KL. see what the RH is at before adding water. And build up to where you want if your 5RH off don't spray it 10 times cause it will cause the KL to be over saturated but rather spray it 3-4 times leave for a day see where your at. Do that till you reach your desired RH.

This is time consuming but it is very low on maintenance.


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[Chrisso]

Griz,

HCM Beads Link.

Dont ever spray them with water. Read the site, it will tell you why.

ETC is an External Temperature Control Unit (as I understand it.). It is something that you pipe into the box to read internal temps. you set the ETC to keep the temp at a certain point, and it will power on and cool the unit down when it exceeds the set temp.

KL will need to be sprayed with Distilled water, as all things are in the Cigar Humidor business. HCM beads are re humidified by using a wet sponge or some boveda packs.

Good luck,
-Chrisso

 

[pbibby]

Griz,

HCM Beads Link.

HCM beads are re humidified by using a wet sponge or some boveda packs.

Good luck,
-Chrisso

Correct. HCM come pre humidified to 65 percent humidity. Perfect IMHO. You don't add water because of the makeup of the clay. Long story short is it absolutely ruins them.

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[dubv23]

I have considered HCM because of the winter but couldn't personally justify the cost vs the KL I'm using. It's alittle more maintenance to keep just right but I paid around. $10 for a 5 lb bag and for the money it's worth the work. I haven't had a problem yet so I haven't switched over.

 

[StogieNinja]

There are two kinds of rH medium in use today: one way, and two way. Gels, crystals, pucks, foam, etc all can work to supply rH to your wineadpr, but none of them absorb rH to help keep the rH from getting to high. And if you've ever ordered from CI, you'll want something that can absorb extra rH as well as release needed rH (CI ships stuff really wet sometimes and that can cause a lift in your overall rH inside your wineador.).

Basically, for two-way rH mediums, you have four options:

1. 100% scilica, unscented kitty litter. http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Pet-Pearls-Litter-5-Pound/dp/B0030HMSCI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1368056421&sr=8-4&keywords=kitty+litter+pearls
For my money, these are the best. Super cheap, but you'll need a bit more volume in the same amount of space. When the rH lowers over time, from being lost to the air when opening the unity, you can spray water directly on them.

2. Heartfelt beats. http://www.heartfeltindustries.com/products.asp?cat=14
These, like kitty litter, are silica based. They can hold a lot more moisture, and so you don't need nearly as much in the same space to maintain your rH. To add humidity, simply spray the beads with water, or drip some water onto the beads.

3. HCM beads (aka clay beads). http://cigarbeads.com/
These have a reputation for being rock steady, but to bring the rH back up you have to take a passive approach, as spraying water on them causes them to gain heat and probably explode. A lot of people put them in a tupperware or freezerbag with either a small container of water to let them absorb rh. Best practice seems to be a Boveda pack as it will acclimate to the same rH as the Boveda. Not nearly as convenient as just spraying with water, but again, these take far less space for the same amount of regulation.

4. Boveda packs. These work wonderfully, but are also quite expensive.


As for how to put them in the wineador, some people put a tray in the bottom of the unit, others like myself put small containers spread throughout. I use culebras coffins and just put one in each drawer. Only costs me 3-sticks worth of space, but allows for regulation throughout the unit. Also, since rH tends to fall, every 3 months or so, I swap the bottom and top drawers, and do the same for the middle drawers to help keep everything level. Seems to work flawlessly for me, and I only add a few spritzes of water maybe every 3 months.

Here's how I put mine in:


Just a coffin with some needlepoint mesh from the local craft store... about a buck-fifty a sheet.


Regarding the ETC, sometimes the wine coolers will try too hard to keep cool, so your temps will be in the 60's or maybe even lower, which is lower than necessary, and the unit will run too long, too often. To mitigate that, an ETC, or electronic temperature controller, can be attached to the wineador. A temp sensor is inserted, usually via the drainage hole, and will let the ETC know whether to power on the wineador. The advantage is that a range can be set (IE, 65*-67*), which helps the unit to run less, and you can also set a delay (IE 5 minutes between running) which helps prevent the circuit board controller from wearing out too quickly.

Here's the one I ordered: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008KVCPH2/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And here's a thread showing a neat ETC unit: http://www.stogiefriends.com/forum/thread/2159/temperature-controllers/page_2/


Hope all that makes sense?

 

[Griz]

lilninjabuddy WOW, that was a lot of very useful information, THANK YOU. It looks Like I am leaning toward HF beads used in small containers on each shelf. I am curious about the temp controller. Is it a must and how the heck does it get connected? I am not very good with boards and such. larger electrical I am good with, but that technical stuff is a no-no for me. I was looking at this one, will it work?
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-A19AAT-2C-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0002EAL58/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1368093564&sr=8-5&keywords=temp+controller
it looks like the fridge gets plugged into it and then to the wall and it controls the electric to the fridge? is that right?

 

[Jaricon]

That wil work great. You just pay a bit more for the complete ease of plug and play.

 

[DB16620]

I've tried various different methods (Heartfelf, Watersorb Crystals, Gel jars, and cheapo ebay beads), and I always end up back where I started with Heartfelt 65% beads

 

[Cigary43]

I'm sure Travelin J will pipe up since he's probably the forums most educated person when it comes to knowing RH media...I'm sure there's a book in the works on this. At the end of the day one should try them all and then make an informed choice that is suitable for them. I changed from all of the other media to KL and haven't looked back...it works, it's inexpensive and only requires little maintenance and set up. Beads work and work well but they can be expensive esp. if you have a lot of humidors/tupperadors/cooleradors etc. Cigars are a hobby and we want to take care of them as best we can so my advice is...try them all and pick what works best for yourself.

 

[funkejj]

I have said this before but if I were going to buy any sort of humidification media I would buy something that is designed for cigars thus I have a issue I have tech support to call. I am not saying that kitty liter is bad but it is designed for cat urine not to be stuck in a cigar cabinet. Personally I would use beads but would cost me a little over a grand to buy enough for my humidor. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Griz]

Hey Guys, thanks for all the advice/info, the newair fridge arrived, I let it open a day and then my better half wiped it out with baking soda water. (She said I would do a half done job ) after reading and listening, I decided to go with HFC beads, so, I did the order form and saw after payment was taken that they are out for another week an a half crap. I think I am about 4 weeks out from getting my drawers from Forest.... Looks like it is coming together, slowly, but surely.

 

[StogieNinja]

lilninjabuddy WOW, that was a lot of very useful information, THANK YOU. It looks Like I am leaning toward HF beads used in small containers on each shelf. I am curious about the temp controller. Is it a must and how the heck does it get connected? I am not very good with boards and such. larger electrical I am good with, but that technical stuff is a no-no for me. I was looking at this one, will it work?
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-A19AAT-2C-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0002EAL58/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1368093564&sr=8-5&keywords=temp+controller
it looks like the fridge gets plugged into it and then to the wall and it controls the electric to the fridge? is that right?

The one I linked to is really easy to set up. All you really need is a grounded extension cord, a screwdriver, and a wire stripper/cutter. Cut, strip, screw the wires into the unit. If you want to get fancy, you can make a housing for it, I'm going to do that with an old cigar box.

Then, you plug the ETC into the wall, and the Wineador into the unit. Simple as that.

The only issue I can see with the one you linked is that there's no range, no time delay, and it's more expensive. You want a bit of range and a bit of time delay so that the unit isn't constantly turning on and off. That constant on and off will wear out the control board on the wine cooler a lot faster unnecessarily.

 

[Constantine]

Allot of great info in this thread, Since we are on the subject I wanted to ask and see if any of you guys have used this KL. I was going to pick some up but two things I had questions about was one, it does not say if it is scented or not, and two it is a finer type if KL. I also spotted this Mimi litter and was wondering if anybody has used it as well.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Fresh-Step-Crystals-8lb-Cats/10313505

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mimi-Litter-Cat-Litter-4-lb-Cats/12018928

 

[Agentskull]

Allot of great info in this thread, Since we are on the subject I wanted to ask and see if any of you guys have used this KL. I was going to pick some up but two things I had questions about was one, it does not say if it is scented or not, and two it is a finer type if KL. I also spotted this Mimi litter and was wondering if anybody has used it as well.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Fresh-Step-Crystals-8lb-Cats/10313505

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mimi-Litter-Cat-Litter-4-lb-Cats/12018928

Just setup my mini fridge with the Mimi litter. Seems to be working just fine.

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[Rupe]

This is what I've been using for the past 8 months.....Works like a charm!!!!

keeps my cooleridor dead-on at 65