Why would a retailer do this?

[BrittS88]

Glad I've never purchased from that site and will continue to not purchase from that site.

Glad I've never purchased from that site and will continue to not purchase from that site.

Same here.

Going to end up being a big list.

Yup, watched the first 20 min. Not ever supporting that guy.

 

[bluearmy]

Glad I've never purchased from that site and will continue to not purchase from that site.

Glad I've never purchased from that site and will continue to not purchase from that site.

Same here.

Going to end up being a big list.

Yup, watched the first 20 min. Not ever supporting that guy.

+1. They screwed up my one and only order from them, but I have never advised anyone against purchasing through them. That's different now, heck, what do I know, I am just a moron and a coward.

 

[Rich]

Such a statement, or perhaps inference, clearly shows a hidden agenda. Either that or it is the writing of someone that is clearly lacking two things, an education and any experience in business.

No person is going to actively market products to a group that they can not sell to, be it due to the cost being outside their price range, unable to satisfy the demand, or as it he case here simply illegal. It is a waste of time, money and the risk of breaking the law in a state that actively conducts checks with undercover personal and potentially losing your license to sell the very product that is your livelihood is simply stupid. Factor in a man that has been in the business for nearly thirty years and it borders on lunacy.

Those that have replied in a negative way are equally wrong. The phrase, “Marketing to children”, comes from where? What is marketing? Are there signs directed to children? Has this business ever been convicted of selling to minors? Where is the evidence that this business does, in fact, not only market but sell to minors? You see an advertisement and read a post and take that as your facts? Shame on you people, for you are part of the problem and not even close to the solution.

As a 42 year old male I find it whimsical that I can walk into a Cigar Shop and see a throw back to my younger years. I look at that product and I laugh inside and think, “I might buy some of those as a gage gift for some of my friends”. My son is 11 years old and doesn’t know that product exists, and do you know why? Because they are NOT marketed to toward him in any way. He doesn’t hear it on the radio, see it on TV, it isn’t in any magazines I allow him to read, there are no flyers coming to the house in his name. The only way he knows it exists is because of ME.

You people saw a product and made a huge assumption, and you are wrong. I would like anyone that disagrees with me to show me any piece of marketing directed to a minor, one. A flyer not directed to a minor is not such evidence, for it would have been given to an adult, who in turn used poor judgment and passed it along, and such things are not the fault of the business, anymore then it is the fault of a Brewery when an adult purchases the beer for an underage minor.

This is CLEARLY a whimsical marketing idea, and a good one at that, directed toward adults to make them think back to when they where younger. You people are putting the cart before the horse. You see a product marketed to children, that of candy, and telecast that onto the product in question, that of a cigar. Show some thought, think before you react and post things that if you actually thought about it for more then a second wouldn’t receive a knee-jerk reaction due to lack of logic and thought. Don’t’ be sheep’s, think for yourself and actually obtain some facts. If you post on this board I assume you enjoy smoking cigars, and by posting things and agreeing to them blindly does not help the pastime we enjoy, it only shows we don’t know what we are talking about and incorrectly make assumptions about our fellow cigar lovers. This post sounds like a bunch of 5th graders arguing about world politics.

 

[bluearmy]

Such a statement, or perhaps inference, clearly shows a hidden agenda. Either that or it is the writing of someone that is clearly lacking two things, an education and any experience in business.

No person is going to actively market products to a group that they can not sell to, be it due to the cost being outside their price range, unable to satisfy the demand, or as it he case here simply illegal. It is a waste of time, money and the risk of breaking the law in a state that actively conducts checks with undercover personal and potentially losing your license to sell the very product that is your livelihood is simply stupid. Factor in a man that has been in the business for nearly thirty years and it borders on lunacy.

Those that have replied in a negative way are equally wrong. The phrase, “Marketing to children”, comes from where? What is marketing? Are there signs directed to children? Has this business ever been convicted of selling to minors? Where is the evidence that this business does, in fact, not only market but sell to minors? You see an advertisement and read a post and take that as your facts? Shame on you people, for you are part of the problem and not even close to the solution.

As a 42 year old male I find it whimsical that I can walk into a Cigar Shop and see a throw back to my younger years. I look at that product and I laugh inside and think, “I might buy some of those as a gage gift for some of my friends”. My son is 11 years old and doesn’t know that product exists, and do you know why? Because they are NOT marketed to toward him in any way. He doesn’t hear it on the radio, see it on TV, it isn’t in any magazines I allow him to read, there are no flyers coming to the house in his name. The only way he knows it exists is because of ME.

You people saw a product and made a huge assumption, and you are wrong. I would like anyone that disagrees with me to show me any piece of marketing directed to a minor, one. A flyer not directed to a minor is not such evidence, for it would have been given to an adult, who in turn used poor judgment and passed it along, and such things are not the fault of the business, anymore then it is the fault of a Brewery when an adult purchases the beer for an underage minor.

This is CLEARLY a whimsical marketing idea, and a good one at that, directed toward adults to make them think back to when they where younger. You people are putting the cart before the horse. You see a product marketed to children, that of candy, and telecast that onto the product in question, that of a cigar. Show some thought, think before you react and post things that if you actually thought about it for more then a second wouldn’t receive a knee-jerk reaction due to lack of logic and thought. Don’t’ be sheep’s, think for yourself and actually obtain some facts. If you post on this board I assume you enjoy smoking cigars, and by posting things and agreeing to them blindly does not help the pastime we enjoy, it only shows we don’t know what we are talking about and incorrectly make assumptions about our fellow cigar lovers. This post sounds like a bunch of 5th graders arguing about world politics.

Rich, we never thought for a second that these were marketed to kids, so please back off of the assumptions for the time being and read the entire thread. The issue is that we are in a critical time to fight the FDA's regulation practices. Cigars like this are a good marketing idea, that's not the argument. The problem is that when we are trying to convince the FDA that cigars aren't marketed towards children, these are the examples they will use to counter our arguments. Simply, cigars like this are doing nothing to help our case and are possibly making our fight a lot harder than it already is. I hope that helps you understand why this is an issue in the first place.

 

[Robertsndr68]

To that other guy tho....I gotchya coward right here. Don't talk shit about people you don't know.
Charles Pearson II

I'm with 40... Who the hell does this guy think he is? the name is Robert SANDER Mr. Jonathan. Man, that video pissed me off...

also..... his response to the collective issues brothers here have raised are so infuriatingly irrelevant and off point i wanted to throw my laptop out the library window.....

 

[BrittS88]

Such a statement, or perhaps inference, clearly shows a hidden agenda. Either that or it is the writing of someone that is clearly lacking two things, an education and any experience in business.

No person is going to actively market products to a group that they can not sell to, be it due to the cost being outside their price range, unable to satisfy the demand, or as it he case here simply illegal. It is a waste of time, money and the risk of breaking the law in a state that actively conducts checks with undercover personal and potentially losing your license to sell the very product that is your livelihood is simply stupid. Factor in a man that has been in the business for nearly thirty years and it borders on lunacy.

Those that have replied in a negative way are equally wrong. The phrase, “Marketing to children”, comes from where? What is marketing? Are there signs directed to children? Has this business ever been convicted of selling to minors? Where is the evidence that this business does, in fact, not only market but sell to minors? You see an advertisement and read a post and take that as your facts? Shame on you people, for you are part of the problem and not even close to the solution.

As a 42 year old male I find it whimsical that I can walk into a Cigar Shop and see a throw back to my younger years. I look at that product and I laugh inside and think, “I might buy some of those as a gage gift for some of my friends”. My son is 11 years old and doesn’t know that product exists, and do you know why? Because they are NOT marketed to toward him in any way. He doesn’t hear it on the radio, see it on TV, it isn’t in any magazines I allow him to read, there are no flyers coming to the house in his name. The only way he knows it exists is because of ME.

You people saw a product and made a huge assumption, and you are wrong. I would like anyone that disagrees with me to show me any piece of marketing directed to a minor, one. A flyer not directed to a minor is not such evidence, for it would have been given to an adult, who in turn used poor judgment and passed it along, and such things are not the fault of the business, anymore then it is the fault of a Brewery when an adult purchases the beer for an underage minor.

This is CLEARLY a whimsical marketing idea, and a good one at that, directed toward adults to make them think back to when they where younger. You people are putting the cart before the horse. You see a product marketed to children, that of candy, and telecast that onto the product in question, that of a cigar. Show some thought, think before you react and post things that if you actually thought about it for more then a second wouldn’t receive a knee-jerk reaction due to lack of logic and thought. Don’t’ be sheep’s, think for yourself and actually obtain some facts. If you post on this board I assume you enjoy smoking cigars, and by posting things and agreeing to them blindly does not help the pastime we enjoy, it only shows we don’t know what we are talking about and incorrectly make assumptions about our fellow cigar lovers. This post sounds like a bunch of 5th graders arguing about world politics.

Rich, we never thought for a second that these were marketed to kids, so please back off of the assumptions for the time being and read the entire thread. The issue is that we are in a critical time to fight the FDA's regulation practices. Cigars like this are a good marketing idea, that's not the argument. The problem is that when we are trying to convince the FDA that cigars aren't marketed towards children, these are the examples they will use to counter our arguments. Simply, cigars like this are doing nothing to help our case and are possibly making our fight a lot harder than it already is. I hope that helps you understand why this is an issue in the first place.

+1 to Ryan.
To Rich, what the OP was basically saying is due to the packaging, someone who wants to Vilify the cigar industry and make life harder for us, could twist this so that is seems as though the cigar world is targeting children. Thats what the guy missed, and why he was so wrong about what he said in his video response. No one is saying hes marketing to children. The point is that this can be used to hurt our community, therefore we should avoid packaging things like this in the first place.

 

[Hoshneer]

I still need to listen to the show but the question is why would you respond to a community like this? It's only going to cost him business. He must not obviously care and as far as talking smack about my brothers he can just eat **** & die for all I care. This just makes me sad.....

 

[Hoshneer]

Okay, I already feel bad.. We will just downgrade this to a tropical hate instead a hurricane... My bad.

 

[ATL]

Such a statement, or perhaps inference, clearly shows a hidden agenda. Either that or it is the writing of someone that is clearly lacking two things, an education and any experience in business.

Rich, first, head over to the introductions thread where we ask all new members to introduce themselves to the community. Second, reconsider the logic, structure, and wording of this sentence before attacking anyone else for a lack of education. Third, read the last few posts. We're not saying he's actively marketing to children. We're saying that those who want to demonize, overtax, and over regulate the industry will use such images as fodder to garner the votes needed to accomplish their goals. We're not scared. There's s difference between fear and being painfully aware of the circumstance at hand. When you're literally outnumbered 99 to one, you shouldn't give your enemy extra ammunition. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who buys lots of cigars, reads cigar magazines, participates in cigar podcasts, drives hours to cigar events, supports the CRA, writes my legislators, and belongs to the finest cigar community on the internet. I'm clearly uniformed and misinformed. I should just shut up and thank Dave. Yes, the same Dave who condemns countries that deny their citizens free speech, celebrates his freedom to package cigars anyway he sees fit, but can't handle it when his fellow citizens are critical of decision he has made. Hence, we should shut up and thank him.

 

[sofc]

It could be that we are not his targeted demographic and thus he doesn't care. (bomb ATL) Or it could be like most of us who get defensive when we feel attacked.

 

[ATL]

It could be that we are not his targeted demographic and thus he doesn't care. (bomb ATL) Or it could be like most of us who get defensive when we feel attacked.

Going by his reaction on the show, I would say 90% the latter. Ban or bomb Ara, I don't care which.

 

[Master Shake]

When I saw this thread I had no idea who David Garofalo was, and thus had no opinion of him whatsoever. And I personally don't think he is trying to market to children at all. I don't think that the cigar industry as a whole has much appeal to minors. I simply thought that this product is a silly idea, because in this day and age it seems to take so little to garner government oversight. There are plenty of anti-tobacco groups and congressman with anti-tobacco interests. Something as simple as this can turn into a rallying cry very quickly. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't take much to cast this kind of packaging in the wrong light. You can talk to you're blue in the face about the facts but that won't overturn someones gut reaction when they see things like this. It harkens to days past for many cigar smokers in a positive light, I'm sure. But for those who don't smoke cigars this kind of thing conjures images of candy cigarettes and the evil overlords of the tobacco industry praying on their innocent children. In this day and age you don't have to be PC all the time per se, but you do have to be smart enough to see possible negative ramifications for your actions.

After listening to the show, I thought David Garofalo came off as arrogant and as someone who felt he was beyond reproach. Nobody here attacked him personally, but that certainly didn't stop him from attacking this group and essentially saying that anyone with a different opinion then him is stupid. Fantastic, thanks for the positive feedback.

And to Rich: what exactly did you hope to gain from coming on here and putting this forum on blast? Your post seems to skirt what our core issues with these are in the first place, and instead has taken this discussion to marketing to minors, which I don't think anybody believes was the intended goal when this cigar candy bar project started. Also, what do you mean by "YOU PEOPLE??????"

-Cass Malec

 

[jdwaynes1980]

Joe Camel wasn't marketed towards children either, but Camel's sales to teenagers went from $6Million/year in the US to $476Million in the first four years Joe Camel was being used in advertisements.

Moral of the story: Just because it wasn't initially intended to lure in underage smokers doesn't mean it won't.

 

[funkejj]

Ok so no one else noticed that Rich signed up today and his one and only post is in this thread?

 

[Agentskull]

Oh i did, but i was on my phone. Was a really thoughtful introduction to the forums. I guess I am just one of those uneducated people he is talking about. Really I thought it was a constructive criticism of a product line by our members. It seems to only have turned into attack on the board by people who might work in the industry but are not active members here. I might not have known about this product, I could have been on the fence about the topic, but when you close the discussion out as "we are right" and your just uneducated and wrong. You have lost me and my business.


By the way. Unless it is your first time on the internet you tend to use handles. Mainly because that is the culture of the internet. Image if every john smith had their name as a handle. It would get pretty confusing.

Just my two cents.

Robert A. Scully

 

[spark]

I am pretty sure this is the same retailer that made a replica of DPG Firecrackers and tried to pass it off as the same thing. The packaging was almost identical, and the advertisement even referred to the DPG version, even though the product they were selling was a replica.

Also, 2 Guys signed on to be the retailer for custom order cigars for another online community (reddit r/cigars). 2 guys absolutely ruined their reputation by not delivering the product on time, ignoring inquiries, spinning multiple excuses and revised delivery dates, and overall failing on customer service.

I will never buy a single cigar from this site again.

 

[funkejj]

I am pretty sure this is the same retailer that made a replica of DPG Firecrackers and tried to pass it off as the same thing. The packaging was almost identical, and the advertisement even referred to the DPG version, even though the product they were selling was a replica. Also, 2 Guys signed on to be the retailer for custom order cigars for another online community (reddit r/cigars). 2 guys absolutely ruined their reputation by not delivering the product on time, ignoring inquiries, spinning multiple excuses and revised delivery dates, and overall failing on customer service. I will never buy a single cigar from this site again.

Dpg made the firecracker exclusively for then for two years. They were legit.

 

[Master Shake]

Ok so no one else noticed that Rich signed up today and his one and only post is in this thread?

Hahahaha. No I noticed, I just figured that he was somebody who, judging by his critique of our beloved forum, has showed up for the explicit purpose of ranting and putting us all on blast. I jumped to the conclusion that Rich has zero interest in being an actual member of our online community and is already deeply embedded in his viewpoint on the matter. He has no interest in a real discussion or a willingness to see any side but his own. I believe that makes him a bit of a troll.

 

[ATL]

Ok so no one else noticed that Rich signed up today and his one and only post is in this thread?

Yes, I thought someone else caught before me and referred him to the intro thread. I added that to my response to Rich.

 

[xFreebirdx]

Such a statement, or perhaps inference, clearly shows a hidden agenda. Either that or it is the writing of someone that is clearly lacking two things, an education and any experience in business.

No person is going to actively market products to a group that they can not sell to, be it due to the cost being outside their price range, unable to satisfy the demand, or as it he case here simply illegal. It is a waste of time, money and the risk of breaking the law in a state that actively conducts checks with undercover personal and potentially losing your license to sell the very product that is your livelihood is simply stupid. Factor in a man that has been in the business for nearly thirty years and it borders on lunacy.

Those that have replied in a negative way are equally wrong. The phrase, “Marketing to children”, comes from where? What is marketing? Are there signs directed to children? Has this business ever been convicted of selling to minors? Where is the evidence that this business does, in fact, not only market but sell to minors? You see an advertisement and read a post and take that as your facts? Shame on you people, for you are part of the problem and not even close to the solution.

As a 42 year old male I find it whimsical that I can walk into a Cigar Shop and see a throw back to my younger years. I look at that product and I laugh inside and think, “I might buy some of those as a gage gift for some of my friends”. My son is 11 years old and doesn’t know that product exists, and do you know why? Because they are NOT marketed to toward him in any way. He doesn’t hear it on the radio, see it on TV, it isn’t in any magazines I allow him to read, there are no flyers coming to the house in his name. The only way he knows it exists is because of ME.

You people saw a product and made a huge assumption, and you are wrong. I would like anyone that disagrees with me to show me any piece of marketing directed to a minor, one. A flyer not directed to a minor is not such evidence, for it would have been given to an adult, who in turn used poor judgment and passed it along, and such things are not the fault of the business, anymore then it is the fault of a Brewery when an adult purchases the beer for an underage minor.

This is CLEARLY a whimsical marketing idea, and a good one at that, directed toward adults to make them think back to when they where younger. You people are putting the cart before the horse. You see a product marketed to children, that of candy, and telecast that onto the product in question, that of a cigar. Show some thought, think before you react and post things that if you actually thought about it for more then a second wouldn’t receive a knee-jerk reaction due to lack of logic and thought. Don’t’ be sheep’s, think for yourself and actually obtain some facts. If you post on this board I assume you enjoy smoking cigars, and by posting things and agreeing to them blindly does not help the pastime we enjoy, it only shows we don’t know what we are talking about and incorrectly make assumptions about our fellow cigar lovers. This post sounds like a bunch of 5th graders arguing about world politics.

Rich?

Sorry but I'm not as nice or as well read as the others here on the forum. And seeing how you only made this account to "defend" yourselves is pretty obvious. Using a real name even. But I will put my .02¢ in just because of your post.........
Rich? #Fockyou and the pony you rode in on...........Is that 5th grader enough for you?