Fda 2014 - anti-cigar regulations

[Senor Perfecto]

Er, how do you know what the intention of the post was?

I am a cigar smoker and a member of this community.

I support regulations against cigarettes, which are disgusting and by-and-large filled with chemicals that were not in the tobacco leaves.

That video by the OP is a horrible way to raise awareness of anything, other than that the guy in it is a nut. It's embarrassing, and as a cigar smoker I hope nobody sees it as the voice of our hobby.

As for what I was asking for -- facts -- I did in fact do a (admittedly cursory) search for what this "FDA regulation" would *actually* mean for us cigar smokers, and I did not find anything but links to other pro-cigar websites like halfwheel (which I like). The link to the law firm that's pro-cigar and the faux news site do not count as facts. Especially the latter

I think it would suck if they banned mail order; especially here in CA, buying cigars at a B&M is pretty pricey. Am I against the taxes though? Not really. I recognize the state needs revenue and that my habit is a destructive one. I also agree with the prohibitions on smoking publicly, etc. Would I oppose legislation banning cigar lounges where we can get together & smoke without bothering anyone else? Absolutely. I literally don't even *understand* why walk-in humis would be banned, so I was asking for more info. Real info. Facts. Not more biased opinion pieces on shady websites.

So, is there room in this debate for more than one, narrow, sensationalistic point of view? Or is anyone who thinks things could be done differently or better in the slightest a "troll" who should be attacked?

 

[Master Shake]

I for one understand the need for government oversight on tobacco. The cigarette industry has for years tried all sorts of shenanigans and have dug their own grave as far as I am concerned. The problem is that every time government tries to define a premium cigar in order to tax or try to prevent the sale of tobacco products to minors, companies like Swisher Sweet, Philly Blunt, Black & Mild and White Owl come up with new ways to skirt the regulations. These shitty manufacturers that market to minors keep pressing the issue and make it harder and harder for true premium cigar manufacturers. While I've never been to a B&M that sold to minors I've been in plenty of 7/11s and gas stations that have. And that's the problem. Unfortunately there isn't an easy solution to it so the thing that is easiest for the government is just to tax and regulate the living hell out of everything.
And people who think that it can't happen are, IMO, delusional. The government will get away with anything unless there are people who will stand up for their rights and unfortunately in this day and age you need a lobbyist group to do that.

 

[Argus17]

Er, how do you know what the intention of the post was?

I am a cigar smoker and a member of this community.

I support regulations against cigarettes, which are disgusting and by-and-large filled with chemicals that were not in the tobacco leaves.

That video by the OP is a horrible way to raise awareness of anything, other than that the guy in it is a nut. It's embarrassing, and as a cigar smoker I hope nobody sees it as the voice of our hobby.

As for what I was asking for -- facts -- I did in fact do a (admittedly cursory) search for what this "FDA regulation" would *actually* mean for us cigar smokers, and I did not find anything but links to other pro-cigar websites like halfwheel (which I like). The link to the law firm that's pro-cigar and the faux news site do not count as facts. Especially the latter

I think it would suck if they banned mail order; especially here in CA, buying cigars at a B&M is pretty pricey. Am I against the taxes though? Not really. I recognize the state needs revenue and that my habit is a destructive one. I also agree with the prohibitions on smoking publicly, etc. Would I oppose legislation banning cigar lounges where we can get together & smoke without bothering anyone else? Absolutely. I literally don't even *understand* why walk-in humis would be banned, so I was asking for more info. Real info. Facts. Not more biased opinion pieces on shady websites.

So, is there room in this debate for more than one, narrow, sensationalistic point of view? Or is anyone who thinks things could be done differently or better in the slightest a "troll" who should be attacked?

I take issue with the statement that our Hobby/Passion (not habit) is a destructive one. I'm 56 years old, and have been smoking cigars for the past 5 years. I eat healthy, avoid white sugar, gluten, fatty red meat, GMO grains, tansfats, HFCS, soy and artificial sweeteners. I also exercise. I take raw, whole food vitamins, and 100 mg. a day of B-17 (kills cancer). My last physical came back as an A+, and even my doctor says that a cigar or two a day is just fine. Jack Benny smoked upwards of 7 to 10 cigars a day, and he lived to be 80. Winston Churchill was also someone known for his love of cigars (the Churchill size was named after him), and he lived to be 89. I wouldn't be enjoying this hobby, if I felt it where destructive. Heck, I bet I'll live a longer, healthier life as a moderate cigar smoker, then most non-smokers carrying an extra 20 to 50 pounds around.

Our government should be more interested in GMO grains, transfats, HFCS, soy and artificial sweeteners then cigars. Things that are truly poisoning us.

 

[Angry Bill]

My question is if you aren't a CRA member, why not. Lifetime member here.

 

[problemsolverjc]

I take issue with the statement that our Hobby/Passion (not habit) is a destructive one.

+1

My question is if you aren't a CRA member, why not. Lifetime member here.

+100

 

[Master Shake]

I take issue with the statement that our Hobby/Passion (not habit) is a destructive one.

I'm sorry to say that I don't take issue with that statement. Is it as bad as cigarettes? Hell no. But I know on some of these boards people smoke upwards of 5 a day. Idc who you are that puts you in a higher risk category. I only smoke 1-3 a week, but it'd be foolish to say that I'm not exposing myself to additional risk from doing so. Just like some girls get knocked up on their first time, shit can happen with any regular exposure to tobacco products. Having said that I feel my risk is very low but who knows, really? I enjoy this hobby so I choose to not stress over it and instead live my life and enjoy the small things like a tall glass of beer, a good cigar, and unprotected sex with dollar hookers.

 

[Senor Perfecto]

Master Shake is on point. Argus, sounds like in general you're taking much better care of yourself than the avg Joe, so it's paying dividends. But there's little question you'd be doing yourself another favor by quitting.

That said, I have no plans to quit. I do think there are ancillary benefits, if it helps to relax. I am certainly not addicted. I smoke 4-5 a week and I feel like it's a lot. But I like it. You gotta pick your poison!

 

[3/5King]

Nicotine is a carcinogen and a vasoconstrictor;cigars are loaded with nicotine. Therefore smoking a cigar (at the moment of partaking) is a destructive act. It's like letting a shady looking stranger in your home to use the bathroom. They raise your blood pressure while they're there and you just never know when one might try to take over your house and harm you.

Ive known alcoholics that have lived into their 90's and others that have died in their late 40's early 50's. Because some lived into their 90's, Does that make using alcohol a non destructive habit? Everything in moderation (thanks Jonathan Drew lol) but even in moderation you are subjecting yourself to poisons.

This isn't an attack on whoever disagrees, just an opinion laced with facts on the subject.

Should the gov. Dig their greedy little claws and "helping hands" into every little area of our lives, good or bad? No, he'll no.

Leave our cigars alone. I mean it's a small enough niche as it is, there's no advertising to the younger (-18) demographic and when's the last time you saw a teen puffing on a cigar that's not filled with weed??

Let adults make adult decisions for themselves.

Oh and I also agree that being overweight, sugars, processed foods, gmo, gluten, etc. are all just as bad if not worse than cigar smoking simply for the fact that they are consumed in mass quantities with most considering them safe or not considering at all.

 

[Tag9485]

Nicotine is a carcinogen and a vasoconstrictor;cigars are loaded with nicotine. Therefore smoking a cigar (at the moment of partaking) is a destructive act. It's like letting a shady looking stranger in your home to use the bathroom. They raise your blood pressure while they're there and you just never know when one might try to take over your house and harm you.

Ive known alcoholics that have lived into their 90's and others that have died in their late 40's early 50's. Because some lived into their 90's, Does that make using alcohol a non destructive habit? Everything in moderation (thanks Jonathan Drew lol) but even in moderation you are subjecting yourself to poisons.

This isn't an attack on whoever disagrees, just an opinion laced with facts on the subject.

Should the gov. Dig their greedy little claws and "helping hands" into every little area of our lives, good or bad? No, he'll no.

Leave our cigars alone. I mean it's a small enough niche as it is, there's no advertising to the younger (-18) demographic and when's the last time you saw a teen puffing on a cigar that's not filled with weed??

Let adults make adult decisions for themselves.

Oh and I also agree that being overweight, sugars, processed foods, gmo, gluten, etc. are all just as bad if not worse than cigar smoking simply for the fact that they are consumed in mass quantities with most considering them safe or not considering at all.

^^^^^this. I wasn't gonna add my 2 cents on this but I agree. Yes cigars are bad for you, no I don't want the man sticking his damn hands into my hobby. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how many personal freedoms they can strip from us because people won't do anything about it. One day were all gonna be like the society in Demolition Man, if it's bad for you it's illegal haha.

 

[BrittS88]

Nicotine is a carcinogen and a vasoconstrictor;cigars are loaded with nicotine. Therefore smoking a cigar (at the moment of partaking) is a destructive act. It's like letting a shady looking stranger in your home to use the bathroom. They raise your blood pressure while they're there and you just never know when one might try to take over your house and harm you.

Ive known alcoholics that have lived into their 90's and others that have died in their late 40's early 50's. Because some lived into their 90's, Does that make using alcohol a non destructive habit? Everything in moderation (thanks Jonathan Drew lol) but even in moderation you are subjecting yourself to poisons.

This isn't an attack on whoever disagrees, just an opinion laced with facts on the subject.

Should the gov. Dig their greedy little claws and "helping hands" into every little area of our lives, good or bad? No, he'll no.

Leave our cigars alone. I mean it's a small enough niche as it is, there's no advertising to the younger (-18) demographic and when's the last time you saw a teen puffing on a cigar that's not filled with weed??

Let adults make adult decisions for themselves.

Oh and I also agree that being overweight, sugars, processed foods, gmo, gluten, etc. are all just as bad if not worse than cigar smoking simply for the fact that they are consumed in mass quantities with most considering them safe or not considering at all.

^^^^^this. I wasn't gonna add my 2 cents on this but I agree. Yes cigars are bad for you, no I don't want the man sticking his damn hands into my hobby. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how many personal freedoms they can strip from us because people won't do anything about it. One day were all gonna be like the society in Demolition Man, if it's bad for you it's illegal haha.

Psh. I'll be the guy eating rat burgers in the sewer.

 

[ChefBoyRG54]

Nicotine is a carcinogen and a vasoconstrictor;cigars are loaded with nicotine. Therefore smoking a cigar (at the moment of partaking) is a destructive act. It's like letting a shady looking stranger in your home to use the bathroom. They raise your blood pressure while they're there and you just never know when one might try to take over your house and harm you.

Ive known alcoholics that have lived into their 90's and others that have died in their late 40's early 50's. Because some lived into their 90's, Does that make using alcohol a non destructive habit? Everything in moderation (thanks Jonathan Drew lol) but even in moderation you are subjecting yourself to poisons.

This isn't an attack on whoever disagrees, just an opinion laced with facts on the subject.

Should the gov. Dig their greedy little claws and "helping hands" into every little area of our lives, good or bad? No, he'll no.

Leave our cigars alone. I mean it's a small enough niche as it is, there's no advertising to the younger (-18) demographic and when's the last time you saw a teen puffing on a cigar that's not filled with weed??

Let adults make adult decisions for themselves.

Oh and I also agree that being overweight, sugars, processed foods, gmo, gluten, etc. are all just as bad if not worse than cigar smoking simply for the fact that they are consumed in mass quantities with most considering them safe or not considering at all.

^^^^^this. I wasn't gonna add my 2 cents on this but I agree. Yes cigars are bad for you, no I don't want the man sticking his damn hands into my hobby. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how many personal freedoms they can strip from us because people won't do anything about it. One day were all gonna be like the society in Demolition Man, if it's bad for you it's illegal haha.

Psh. I'll be the guy eating rat burgers in the sewer.

Demolition man Dennis Leary huh?

My bm is having fundraiser March 10 to support groups fighting anti cigar legislation. $100 donation/ticket and you get $200 in cigars donated by different brands(some good, some not so good).

If anyone wants to come to Michigan March 10 let me know, I'll be there and pretty sure Tony Rome is joining me

If you can't make it, you can donate and they will mail the cigars anyways. Pm me if interested and ill forward email. Lots of tickets left!

 

[Phaedron]

Just an aside on the point of the health risks-- in the past two weeks, I had both a biometric assessment at work and my annual physical at my doctor's office. At each appointment, I was asked if I used tobacco products. I hesitated a moment before answering, and then 'fessed up that I smoke 2-3 cigars per week. Each health care practitioner considered this a moment and then said words to the effect of, "I'll put down 'no.'" Win!! I imagine if I'd said 1-2 per day, the assessment might have been different...

Regarding the video proper, I am with the camp that doesn't respond well to the use of hyperbolae in attempting to influence political outcomes. But I'm not so naive as to think that contemporary political discourse is going to ever dispense with it. We're too far gone. But we're smart enough to filter out the BS and check the facts. Unfortunately, right now, there are no real facts to be had, just secondary sources reporting on what might be on tap. The claims about eliminating the walk-in humidors, eliminating mail order, eliminating box art, etc. were previously enumerated in that above-linked year-old Halfwheel article, which reads: "Cigar Rights of America has suggested that should the Food & Drug Administration begin regulating premium cigars, the following changes could be implemented..." I've added the emphasis to simply point out that it's all conjecture until someone sees the proposed regulations... The guy in the video is right about one thing-- the OMB has the proposed regs and after their review, the proposals will be published. Then we'll see what we're up against. If anyone can link to the actual detailed proposal being reviewed by the OMB, please do so! In another article on the subject last year, Halfwheel said the proposed regulation can be found here: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201304&RIN=0910-AG38 but as you can see, there's no actual information there.

It was heartening to see the bipartisan support for H.R. 792 and Senate Bill 772, but be aware that these bills were referred to committee last February and April respectively and neither has moved since. The website Govtrack.us gives these between a 1% and 17% chance of passing, depending upon which you look at (which seems weird). Keep on top of them at https://www.govtrack.us/

 

[SpartanFan]

PS... CRA fights for the cigar rights of all of us... if you don't like the message that ACTIVISTS post, just move on and try another thread on the forum. This thread is about supporting the CRA and their fight against the FDA. If you dont agree, just move on. Let those of us that agree talk about it.

Trolling is defined as publishing a response on a forum with the express intention of projecting an emotional response from the OP.

I support having people maintain their desire for cigars to receive little to no legislation until such a time that the entire public majority hates it and at that point I do not delude myself that it will remain or that any argument will let it do so. But activism itself is generally much more aggressive and can give a very bad image of people and has throughout history.

As for the definition? Everyone seems to have their own view of trolling, its a catch all phrase you throw out whenever anyone disagrees with you or when you don't like them, but that isn't trolling and posting to get an emotional response is likewise not. Posting things that don't contribute to the discussion at all or solely to antagonize others, be it supportive or disagreement, and not based on opinion but by structure, that is what real trolling is, and that's rare.

I can't afford the donation thing going on in my state, but since this seems important to you guys and I want to be supportive, I'll join the CRA and give it a smaller donation. Ad much as I can do for now. I just hope aggressive activism isn't what it goes too.

I don't like to discuss the health issues of cigars btw... But the reduction of stress, encouragement of camaraderie, and friendship and male bonding it can lead to is something I feel makes up for it when it is made occasional rather than routine. But that's just my view.

 

[Argus17]

Ok, folks, I never claimed that cigars where "healthy", or that they could not contribute to health problems for those who abuse them, or are not in great health, but I still take issue with the phrase "destructive habit". Referring to our hobby/passion as a "destructive habit", is throwing out a big old wide invitation to our overstepping, nanny government, to come ridding to our rescue on their white horses, in order to save us from ourselves.