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Which Boveda for a 280 Wineador 69% or 72%

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Afternoon gentlemen,

To the guys who run Boveda in your winadors, what do you use? I know I am splitting hairs with the 69% or 72% question but the "I only need one more thing for the winador" line is starting to wear thin on the wife so I only want to buy this once. Also I already have 1Lb of beads and 2 Xikar bricks (both 70%) in it. But I wanted to add 6 or so bovedas in the hope it will become more maintenance free. I add water about every week now. Any insights?
 

ChefBoyRG54

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I don't have a wineador, I use coolers. But seems odd that you have to keep adding weekly. Is this a wineador thing?

I use KL in my 152qt and haven't added DW in months, haven't had too
 
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I don't have a wineador, I have a few tupperdores, but I use 65 boveda in them. Like Ryan I'm also curious why you have to add water weekly. I assume you have your hydro calibrated. How are your cigars smoking?
 
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I use 69% and some crystals. Sometimes the crystals can go over 69% so the Boveda's will help keep things regulated throughout. It has worked pretty damn well for me. Also, they never go dry as long as you tend to your crystals. I have had the same 8 packs in there for 6 months, and if anything, they look a bit fuller than when I got them.
 
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3 calibrated hydrometers. Cigars smoke fine. But I have added almost 1/2 gallon of DW in the 10 weeks since I got it. I just got shelves last week so now it is full and I think that may help. But it just seems like alot. I have read about guys checking their stuff once a month and that is where I would like to be. Also the seal seems good drain hole is covered.
 

StogieNinja

Derek | BoM June 2014
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How did you season your drawers? A half gallon of DW in 10 weeks seems like an awful lot. I don't think I've added that much in two years.

If I had to guess, I'd wager that either your hygrometers are off and need to be properly cailbrated, OR that your drawers weren't well seasoned when you put everything in. If those two things were done properly, then I'd guess it's related to the temp differential (trying to keep things too cold) causing your rH to be pulled out of the air/condensation.

Questions:
1. How did you calibrate your hygrometers, and when? How new are the batteries?
2. How long are you waiting for the rH to settle and get a good read on your hygrometers before deciding to add more water?
3. If you don't add water, what happens, (and over what period of time?)
4. How did you season the drawers when you got them in?
5. How did you prep the beads when you put them in?
6. What were your cigars stored in before, and at what rH?
7. Is the cooling unit running, and if so for how long at a time (does it ever shut off?) and at what temp do you have it set?
8. Do you have any condensation in the back?
 

Rupe

Suburban robot that monitors reality -BOM Feb.'13
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Personally I keep my stash at 65% because I feel that they smoke better that way. Since you have already committed to the 70% beads, I would suggest going with 69% Bovedas and keeping it on the lower side of your target range.

As far as your wineador going through a lot of water, the 280 is a thermoelectric unit so I would not expect that it would dry things out. Did you add Spanish cedar trays or drawers and/or boxes from your local B&M to the unit? The reason that I ask is that generally when you get these items the wood is dry, not seasoned. Not sure if this is the issue or not but if the shelves, drawers, etc. that you put in there were not seasoned it may be the explanation for you having to add so much distilled water. Basically the dry wood may be sucking up all of your moisture.
 
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How did you season your drawers? A half gallon of DW in 10 weeks seems like an awful lot. I don't think I've added that much in two years.

If I had to guess, I'd wager that either your hygrometers are off and need to be properly cailbrated, OR that your drawers weren't well seasoned when you put everything in. If those two things were done properly, then I'd guess it's related to the temp differential (trying to keep things too cold) causing your rH to be pulled out of the air/condensation.

Questions:
1. How did you calibrate your hygrometers, and when? How new are the batteries?
2. How long are you waiting for the rH to settle and get a good read on your hygrometers before deciding to add more water?
3. If you don't add water, what happens, (and over what period of time?)
4. How did you season the drawers when you got them in?
5. How did you prep the beads when you put them in?
6. What were your cigars stored in before, and at what rH?
7. Is the cooling unit running, and if so for how long at a time (does it ever shut off?) and at what temp do you have it set?
8. Do you have any condensation in the back?
#1 hydrometers all less than 3 months old and were calibrated in Boveda calibration bags. I have done some experimenting with Tupperware while I was seasoning my shelves last week and am fairly certain the hydrometers are dead on.
#2 I do not wait very long. But when it drops my beads are white and the bricks take a fair amount of water.
#3 I never wait so this is something I will try and see what happens.
#4 I kept all my humidity material in (Pound of beads and 2 Xikar bricks both 70%). I added 3pc- 75% boveda bags and put a small tray with a sponge and DW in. I waited 3 days till it measured 75% for about 18 hours.
#5 I just added water with the syringe I bought from him along with the beads. And to be honest at the moment I am not thrilled with the beads. I does not seem like I can get the ones in the bag totally wet and the others I have in a tray (they used to be in an old nylon but it exploded all over my hardwood floors, but that is another story) in order to get them totally clear there is always a little standing water at the bottom of the tray. But I never prepped them per say.
#6 Before installing the shelves last week they were stored in the winador in a couple small trays I bought online and in a tupperware tub with the lid off. There was a lot of open space in the winador and it is very dry in my house (20-30% RH) so I believe a lot of moisture was let out every time I opened the door which was at least once a day. Perhaps the shelves will help with that as it is now mostly full. I was able to keep the RH between about 72% and 65% and those are readings from the top and bottom.
#7 I have it set at the highest setting (66 degrees) and on the hottest days 100+ outside and 80+ inside when I got home before AC was turned on it kept it about 72-73 degrees inside the winador and rarely if ever shut off. Although soon I expect the seasonal change will allow it to shut off some if not most of the time.
#8 I have seen intermittent condensation once or twice a very small amount at the back bottom of the machine but up to this point it has not really been a problem. Although I would like to know why it has only happened a couple times.

Thanks for your questions. I do believe at the end of the day I just might be at the extreme dry end of storing cigars. I have been thinking about storing weekly smokes in Tupperware so I do not have to open my winador everyday. And I have only had my shelves for a week so that may change things quite a bit as well. As I said I was just hoping to get to a point were I could do maintenance once a month or so.
 
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I use KL & 65% packs in my winedor but even being in FL I only turn it on every so often. I plan to get an ETC to help with not having it run 24/7. With it running all the time, and even being a thermoelectric, it would lower my RH% to just below 60%.

Mine holds rock solid at 63-66% with a cab full of KL and 6 65% packs in there. I also only have 2 cheap cedar trays from amazon and some old boxes for storage.

How full is your wineador? Mine is jam packed and I haven't had to add any water to my KL since I got it dialed in, I agree that half a gallon in 10 weeks is a lot of DL. I know a lot of people do use the crystals but I have always thought those not to work very well.
 

StogieNinja

Derek | BoM June 2014
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#4 I kept all my humidity material in (Pound of beads and 2 Xikar bricks both 70%). I added 3pc- 75% boveda bags and put a small tray with a sponge and DW in. I waited 3 days till it measured 75% for about 18 hours.


#7 I have it set at the highest setting (66 degrees) and on the hottest days 100+ outside and 80+ inside when I got home before AC was turned on it kept it about 72-73 degrees inside the winador and rarely if ever shut off. Although soon I expect the seasonal change will allow it to shut off some if not most of the time.
#8 I have seen intermittent condensation once or twice a very small amount at the back bottom of the machine but up to this point it has not really been a problem. Although I would like to know why it has only happened a couple times.
OK, here's what I think.
1. Your wood wasn't seasoned enough initially. Getting to 75% just means the ambient rH inside the wineador hit 75%, it doesn't mean the wood was saturated. Once the wood was saturated, and the bovedas were saturated, the rH should continue to rise as the bowl of water continues to saturate the air inside. My guess is that the Bovedas and sponge were releasing rH at a faster pace than the wood was absorbing, causing the ambient rH to climb to 75% and stay there. As the wood slowly drank, the sponge put off more rH, and the Bovedas regulated, causing the rH to stablize at 75% even though your wood was still thirsty.

2. The constant running of the fan and cooling unit is messing with your rH. If you turn off the fan unit and let it sit for 24-48 hours, I'm willing to be dollars to donuts you'll see a major spike in rH. I know thermoelectric coolers are touted as not affecting rH, but in my opinion they do, especially if there's a large difference between the temp setting and the exterior temperature. When the units are running constantly, it does something inside that causes the hygrometers to read a much lower rH. I don't know if the movement of air causes it, or if the condensation occurs in such a way that the wood hold on to the ambient rH, or what, but it happens. I stopped using the cooling fans on both my wineadors because of this, and just try to keep the house a little cooler.

Try turning off the fan and seeing what happens, and let me know. As I said, based on how much water you've added, I'm willing to bet you see an rH spike show.

Finally, I'd highly recommend you drop the overall rH down to 65%. 70% has always given me too wet a smoke, causing a harsher smoke with a wonky burn. Dropping to 65% cured a lot, and I've found 62% is really where I prefer almost everything.

Cheers,
-Derek
 
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I use 65% HF beads.
Everyone I know that uses Boveda packs in a wineador uses the 65% packs. The debate over 70% RH has long since died. Nearly no one keeps their sticks that high any longer. Back when I did I always noted an acrid taste and burn issues. Ever since I went to 65% I will never look back. Acrid taste is gone and so are the burn issues. Some sticks I keep closer to 60%.

70% also increases your chance of developing mold and in warm situations tobacco beetles.
 
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#4 I kept all my humidity material in (Pound of beads and 2 Xikar bricks both 70%). I added 3pc- 75% boveda bags and put a small tray with a sponge and DW in. I waited 3 days till it measured 75% for about 18 hours.


#7 I have it set at the highest setting (66 degrees) and on the hottest days 100+ outside and 80+ inside when I got home before AC was turned on it kept it about 72-73 degrees inside the winador and rarely if ever shut off. Although soon I expect the seasonal change will allow it to shut off some if not most of the time.
#8 I have seen intermittent condensation once or twice a very small amount at the back bottom of the machine but up to this point it has not really been a problem. Although I would like to know why it has only happened a couple times.
OK, here's what I think.
1. Your wood wasn't seasoned enough initially. Getting to 75% just means the ambient rH inside the wineador hit 75%, it doesn't mean the wood was saturated. Once the wood was saturated, and the bovedas were saturated, the rH should continue to rise as the bowl of water continues to saturate the air inside. My guess is that the Bovedas and sponge were releasing rH at a faster pace than the wood was absorbing, causing the ambient rH to climb to 75% and stay there. As the wood slowly drank, the sponge put off more rH, and the Bovedas regulated, causing the rH to stablize at 75% even though your wood was still thirsty.

2. The constant running of the fan and cooling unit is messing with your rH. If you turn off the fan unit and let it sit for 24-48 hours, I'm willing to be dollars to donuts you'll see a major spike in rH. I know thermoelectric coolers are touted as not affecting rH, but in my opinion they do, especially if there's a large difference between the temp setting and the exterior temperature. When the units are running constantly, it does something inside that causes the hygrometers to read a much lower rH. I don't know if the movement of air causes it, or if the condensation occurs in such a way that the wood hold on to the ambient rH, or what, but it happens. I stopped using the cooling fans on both my wineadors because of this, and just try to keep the house a little cooler.

Try turning off the fan and seeing what happens, and let me know. As I said, based on how much water you've added, I'm willing to bet you see an rH spike show.

Finally, I'd highly recommend you drop the overall rH down to 65%. 70% has always given me too wet a smoke, causing a harsher smoke with a wonky burn. Dropping to 65% cured a lot, and I've found 62% is really where I prefer almost everything.

Cheers,
-Derek
Alright. I am gonna give it a week or two more so I can make sure my wood is seasoned and then I am going to turn it off and see what happens. I would have never thought to do that but your explanation make sense and I am gonna give it a try. Thanks for your time Derek.
 
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cgraunke

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Do you guys all have winadors?
Yup!
And it sounds like Derek has got you on track. I'd be willing to bet that once you have that thing seasoned properly (patience) and packed full, you'll see far less fluctuation.
That being said, there's only so much a thermoelectric unit can do in terms temperature differential. (~20 degF or so?) You might want to make sure it's in the coolest area if your house during the warmer months.
Keep us posted!
 
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