Which Boveda for a 280 Wineador 69% or 72%

[YodisMatt]

2. The constant running of the fan and cooling unit is messing with your rH. If you turn off the fan unit and let it sit for 24-48 hours, I'm willing to be dollars to donuts you'll see a major spike in rH. I know thermoelectric coolers are touted as not affecting rH, but in my opinion they do, especially if there's a large difference between the temp setting and the exterior temperature. When the units are running constantly, it does something inside that causes the hygrometers to read a much lower rH. I don't know if the movement of air causes it, or if the condensation occurs in such a way that the wood hold on to the ambient rH, or what, but it happens. I stopped using the cooling fans on both my wineadors because of this, and just try to keep the house a little cooler.

I agree here, I mentioned that I get this problem here in FL.

I haven't taken the steps yet, but I plan to see if an ETC will help with this problem.

 

[SFerrojr]

2. The constant running of the fan and cooling unit is messing with your rH. If you turn off the fan unit and let it sit for 24-48 hours, I'm willing to be dollars to donuts you'll see a major spike in rH. I know thermoelectric coolers are touted as not affecting rH, but in my opinion they do, especially if there's a large difference between the temp setting and the exterior temperature. When the units are running constantly, it does something inside that causes the hygrometers to read a much lower rH. I don't know if the movement of air causes it, or if the condensation occurs in such a way that the wood hold on to the ambient rH, or what, but it happens. I stopped using the cooling fans on both my wineadors because of this, and just try to keep the house a little cooler.

I agree here, I mentioned that I get this problem here in FL.

I haven't taken the steps yet, but I plan to see if an ETC will help with this problem.

I'm in the process of setting up my first Wineador and saw the same problem. The model I got didn't have a digital thermostat, just a "warmer-cooler" knob, so the fan ran almost constantly and the RH was all over the place even with a full lb of HF beads. Wired it up through STC-1000 temp controller, no other changes, and a day later the RH settled at 65 on the nose, hasn't budged since.

 

[StogieNinja]

ETC's are good for small temp differences. For large differences the problem occurs no matter what as the units have to run constantly to keep the temp down.

If you live in a really warm place, I'd look into a freezador (manual defrost freezer with an etc to regulate temp). The method used to cool won't remove the rh from the atmosphere. I have BotLs who swear by 'em. They use an aquarium heat pad to keep warm in the winter, so the temp is pretty much always spot on.

 

[SFerrojr]

ETC's are good for small temp differences. For large differences the problem occurs no matter what as the units have to run constantly to keep the temp down.

If you live in a really warm place, I'd look into a freezador (manual defrost freezer with an etc to regulate temp). The method used to cool won't remove the rh from the atmosphere. I have BotLs who swear by 'em. They use an aquarium heat pad to keep warm in the winter, so the temp is pretty much always spot on.

Hmmm... Never thought of the aquarium heater... Will have to keep that in mind if it starts dropping to low this winter.

 

[StogieNinja]

ETC's are good for small temp differences. For large differences the problem occurs no matter what as the units have to run constantly to keep the temp down.

If you live in a really warm place, I'd look into a freezador (manual defrost freezer with an etc to regulate temp). The method used to cool won't remove the rh from the atmosphere. I have BotLs who swear by 'em. They use an aquarium heat pad to keep warm in the winter, so the temp is pretty much always spot on.

Hmmm... Never thought of the aquarium heater... Will have to keep that in mind if it starts dropping to low this winter.

It's only really necessary if you keep it in a room that gets really, really cold, or else has regular temp fluxes. The idea behind the freezador is that you can dial in the temp almost perfectly. They're a lot better insulated, there's no cold blowing air, and so the temp fluxes are reduced to almost nothing. It's a lot less pretty, but those I know who use them say the results are absolutely unbeatable.

 

[GreekElite]

for mine, i didnt seasone the wood long enough and when i added the trays in, and then the sticks, the RH was constantly low. i added a dampened sponge into the wineador to help balance it out more in the beginnig, took it out and reassessed in 48 hours.. when it finally held tight at 65% (i use KL) then i knew i was good. havent had a problem since except when having the door open for long periods sorting and moving sticks, would just need to nuke the KL for a few seconds, let em cool in fridge, then go back in.

honestly just get kittly litter, easiest cheapest thing.. and the wife will be happy it's cheap

 

[thrasher66]

OK, here's what I think.
1. Your wood wasn't seasoned enough initially. Getting to 75% just means the ambient rH inside the wineador hit 75%, it doesn't mean the wood was saturated. Once the wood was saturated, and the bovedas were saturated, the rH should continue to rise as the bowl of water continues to saturate the air inside. My guess is that the Bovedas and sponge were releasing rH at a faster pace than the wood was absorbing, causing the ambient rH to climb to 75% and stay there. As the wood slowly drank, the sponge put off more rH, and the Bovedas regulated, causing the rH to stablize at 75% even though your wood was still thirsty.

2. The constant running of the fan and cooling unit is messing with your rH. If you turn off the fan unit and let it sit for 24-48 hours, I'm willing to be dollars to donuts you'll see a major spike in rH. I know thermoelectric coolers are touted as not affecting rH, but in my opinion they do, especially if there's a large difference between the temp setting and the exterior temperature. When the units are running constantly, it does something inside that causes the hygrometers to read a much lower rH. I don't know if the movement of air causes it, or if the condensation occurs in such a way that the wood hold on to the ambient rH, or what, but it happens. I stopped using the cooling fans on both my wineadors because of this, and just try to keep the house a little cooler.

Try turning off the fan and seeing what happens, and let me know. As I said, based on how much water you've added, I'm willing to bet you see an rH spike show.

Finally, I'd highly recommend you drop the overall rH down to 65%. 70% has always given me too wet a smoke, causing a harsher smoke with a wonky burn. Dropping to 65% cured a lot, and I've found 62% is really where I prefer almost everything.

Cheers,
-Derek

Derek
You were dead on Bro! Unplugged it this morning to see what would happen. I had not added water in about 6 days so the humidity material was beginning to dry out. My meters read 63-65. Got home this afternoon all three meter read a perfect 70%. The temp inside was 78 degrees so I turned it back on. 4 hours later my RH was at 60%. And the door was never opened. So the constant running of the fan does have a dramatic influence on RH (at least in my case) of around 10% less RH. The good thing is I think we had our last hot day of the year today at 94 so I think the unit will begin to run only intermittently as the weather cools down. Which means I have like 5 months to figure out a solution. I cannot believe that fan running constantly had that much of an effect! Thanks again for your insight and to everyone who who helped with their input.

 

[JustinThyme]

The fan running constantly does not remove moisture. I have a 120mm fan that has been running in mine for a year and a half now 24x7. What made your humidity drop was the TEC. Just like any other cooling means, warm moist air hits cold surface=condensation and RH to fall. Otherwise if it was cooler but with no condensation the RH would actually go up as absolute humidity in a sealed environment never changes. Warm air saturation takes more water than cold air so at any given point of absolute humidity the relative humidity of the cooler air will always be higher than that of the warmer air.

If you are trying to do this with an empty or near empty cooler you will fight fluctuations forever. Get it half full or better and it will level right out. My NewAir with 5 drawers has been commissioned for 1.5 years running 66F/65%RH pretty darn steady. It stays more than 75% full of sticks. I have 2 lbs of HF beads in it and have added DW once after the initial seasoning and thats with the 120mm fan running 24x7x365.


What killing you is the higher ambient temps. TECs are only good for about 10F differential. Most max out at 66F setting so max ambient temp is about 76F. You go over that your TEC is cooling all the time, the entire time it is cooling it is removing moisture. Mine is in a controlled environment 75F in the summer and 70 in the winter.

 

[thrasher66]

Excellent explanation. And you are correct ambient temp this morning at 6am was 78 degrees in the house. I cannot keep the whole house at 75 or below all summer so right now I am thinking about an in room AC for the office for next summer. I think I can keep one room at 70 degrees all summer without breaking the bank. I am also going to investigate the freezador that was mentioned earlier.

 

[Trackmyer]

Besides Rob's (JustinThyme) explanation, which was spot on,I would also like to add another point.

One the things folks tend to believe when they look at a wine cooler is that its like a little fridge. It is not. Removing the TEC from the equation Im speaking about the cabinet itself. The cabinet of a Newair is very poor at sealing from outside influence. Even with door not being opened, or being kept in the shade out of sun input thru the glass door. The cabinet has a thin plastic inner shell which then has about one inch foam walls and rear. And then the thin outer metal covering. This is not built like a thick walled cooler or a real refrigerator. It is built as an affordable storage of wines at a moderate temp in a moderate ambient temp. It works well for cigars, I own one myself. But Ive also drilled thru mine and have seen whats inside the walls. Its not that special. With the peltier it cools better than having nothing, but is not the perfect solution for everyone depending on your situation.