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Large Built In Wineador

Horseshoe

Horseshoe

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I am trying to come up with a solution for a large built in wine fridge. Something like http://www.openboxdirect.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-HWS-Site/default/Search-Refine?cgid=Beverage_and_Bar-Scratch_and_Dent-Wine_Coolers&prefn1=Wine_Capacity&prefv1=111 And Up&prefn2=Wine_Cooler_Type&prefv2=Built In / Under Counter.

Can a compressor unit be used, or is it just not practical. I know thermal electric is recommended, but I can't get all of my stuff in a small unit. I want to store 1,000 sticks including boxes for long term storage.

I want it built in, and large! Any ideas? Suggestions? Tips/tricks.
 
hot grits

hot grits

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You can 100% use a compressor model. I am one of the few that would only purchase a compressor unit. Are you looking to use passive humidification or electronic? How much $ and effort are you looking to put in this?
 
smokemifugotem

smokemifugotem

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Just to warn you can use compressor like said above but it can only turn on minimally. I had mine in the basement and it never really turned on so never had an issue. When I moved I had to put it in my garage...it won't get above 40% in summer with full bowls of water in it. Compressors work by pulling the humidity out of the air. That is why refrigerators have crisper drawers. So yes it is possible but if it gets hot...it is a fight to keep the humidity right.
 
hot grits

hot grits

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The main issue everyone talks about with compressor units is condensation. Condensation is a result of temperature and dew point. It doesnt care what technology is conditioning the air. When and object goes below the dew point temp, condensatiin forms on it. Take a cold bottle out of the fridge on a hot day and you will see condenstion form on it.
The battle is with conditioned air. When any wine cooler kicks on, be it thermoelectric or condensor, RH will drop. The first way to battle this is to keep all cigars in boxes or inside smaller desktops in the winecooler. This will help buffer the RH drops from the cigars themselves.
If i was doing something like this, i would use a combo of active and passive humidification. I would use beads and an electronic humidifier.
Another issue is over humidification, especially in a sealed unit like a wine cooler. There has to be a way to shed RH. My dream setup would use a 3 way controller to control temp, humidification, and dehumidification. Dehumidification would be controlled by the cooling unit of the wine cooler being that RH drops when the unit kicks on.
So i would have the compressor kick on when temp gets too high. electronic humidifier kick on when RH drops, and compressor kick on when RH gets too high. I would also have a couple pounds of beads in there. Plus a few mods to control the condensation.
Take all of this with a grain of salt as i am known to go completely overboard with ptojects I work on

Another simpler way to attack these problems is to keep the cigars in a seperate enviroment from the conditioned air. You can place all your cigars inside tupperware with bovedas or beads. Than have the tupperwares inside the winecooler. This should keep the cigars from the RH drops that occurs when the cooling unit kicks on.
 
3/5King

3/5King

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hot grits said:
The main issue everyone talks about with compressor units is condensation. Condensation is a result of temperature and dew point. It doesnt care what technology is conditioning the air. When and object goes below the dew point temp, condensatiin forms on it. Take a cold bottle out of the fridge on a hot day and you will see condenstion form on it.
The battle is with conditioned air. When any wine cooler kicks on, be it thermoelectric or condensor, RH will drop. The first way to battle this is to keep all cigars in boxes or inside smaller desktops in the winecooler. This will help buffer the RH drops from the cigars themselves.
If i was doing something like this, i would use a combo of active and passive humidification. I would use beads and an electronic humidifier.
Another issue is over humidification, especially in a sealed unit like a wine cooler. There has to be a way to shed RH. My dream setup would use a 3 way controller to control temp, humidification, and dehumidification. Dehumidification would be controlled by the cooling unit of the wine cooler being that RH drops when the unit kicks on.
So i would have the compressor kick on when temp gets too high. electronic humidifier kick on when RH drops, and compressor kick on when RH gets too high. I would also have a couple pounds of beads in there. Plus a few mods to control the condensation.
Take all of this with a grain of salt as i am known to go completely overboard with ptojects I work on

Another simpler way to attack these problems is to keep the cigars in a seperate enviroment from the conditioned air. You can place all your cigars inside tupperware with bovedas or beads. Than have the tupperwares inside the winecooler. This should keep the cigars from the RH drops that occurs when the cooling unit kicks on.
Click to expand...
This makes my head hurt.
 
smokemifugotem

smokemifugotem

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I wish I could find the article that I saw a few years back that explained it a little bit better but I will try without fucking it up to much. You are right on the basic principles...but thermo electric and compressor work totally different. Compressor uses the cooling unit and fans to circulate or pull the warm air faster from the object placed into fridge. Thermo does the same but does not typically use fans...it helps pull the heat from the object through the wall of the using the electric coils. Now this is great for us due to usually having the fridge indoors with little temperature change or trying to get the cigars cold as food or a freezer. The problem with the compressor is that it does not know you are not trying to mess with the humidity and pulls it through it's own design. In a standard fridge humidity will happen with the temp changes and frequently opening the doors. So it is great because it circulates the air and sucks out the excess humidity with it being opened so frequently. Thermo is usually used on wines and has its limitations. Can't really get that cold and doesn't cool as fast. But for wine and cigars...you don't open it that often so it doesn't need to Pull that heat and humidity as fast. So yes what is said above is true...but that is why we normally go with thermo electric. They work the same but the thermo is much slower and normally has no fan pulling heat and humidity out.

Trust me I was in same boat and basically called someone a liar here when I my compressor worked great for a Michigan basement where it never really turned on. But put it in a atlanta garage during the summer and I was quickly scrambling to find an answer online. And trust me I don't think I am any type of expert nor do I think I am ever right about anything...so take this as you will. Just between the issues I have had personally and the 6 years of members stories on here...thermo is worth it is you really are looking for temperature control. If you are only talking about 2-3 degrees from the household temperature you already have...then cooling doesn't matter at all...just about display. We have a handful of guys here who have walkins in their house. And none to my knowledge use ac units...they just keep the house at the right temp of build the walkin in a smart place in the house. Sorry for long post but hope it is somewhat helpful
 
hot grits

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The drawbacks of TE units that i personally cant look past is its efficiency and the effect of ambient temp. A TE unit will struggle if the ambient temp is much higher than the temp you are trying to get in the unit. If i go away in the summer for a week or two, it probably gets to 90 degrees in my house, a TE unit is going to have difficulty dropping that down to the 60s. A compressor unit is a much more effeicient means of cooling.
i dont even have a wineador, because of all the issues of the effect of conditioned air on RH. One day I will bite the bullet and do a build. Right now, I am just freezing everything before it goes in the humi.
 
smokemifugotem

smokemifugotem

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Yeah might have a lot to think about before then. Unfortunately once you get up to 90 and 100 you have the likely hood that it will run more than it is off. And for that you will need active humidification...now you are knocking on the door of mold or over humidification if unsupervised for 2 weeks. I have found to just pay the extra coin to keep it at 73 when gone. Coolest part of closet still stays at 68/69. Too much $ in beer and cigars to lose when we go on a trip :) wife would kill me if I had to replace it lol
 
Horseshoe

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The unit will likely be in the basement. House is temp controlled and likely to be within 5-10 degrees constant. Currently I have a wine cooler that is not plugged in and it is working fine. I just wanted temp control if for some reason AC went out or something like that. I live in Northern Indiana so basement stays pretty close to 70 all year round but 65 is my desired temp.
 
smokemifugotem

smokemifugotem

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Yeah you are fine then. Like I said mine never kicked on and I lived in southern Michigan so our weather is probably pretty close. It barely ever turned on but I will say my floors were unfinished so the temperature of the concrete helped quite a bit. But I know another brother who had his on the basement close to me and even when his ac went out it never really spiked in temp down there. You should be good.
 
Jfire

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The highest my 3 winodors go in the summer (in the basement cigar lounge) if left unplugged is 73. There is no hvac cooling going to the room. When they hit 70. I turn on all 3 for a week or so and wait for the temps to drop down from the high 90s. This will be my 3rd full year of doing this. (And few more years as well at other houses I've owned ....) I will never buy a compressor model if it goes in my home. It probably cost 50 dollars in AC to keep my home cooled properly if I leave for a week vs keeping the house at 90. Not only the money but now my other household fridges and beverage center have to work harder to keep your mayo and other perishables cool. That just doesn't make sense...... For me at least.
Yorkville, IL damn close in Lat and Long to the OP
 
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