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understood. I was under the assumption that it would raise the max temp on the cooler. was hoping that was the case since the unit will be in my partially unfinished basement, which is maybe 60-62 max during the winter months.
I don't think it would hurt the cigars to let them sit at 62 degrees during the colder months. Stability is key when it comes to aging. What you don't want are temp or humidity swings. I would think that your cigars would do better at a steady 62 during the colder months then constantly swinging between 67 and 70 all the time as long as you are using beads that keep the RH stable.

EDIT: Not that it matters. Just noticed this post was 5 years
old...nevermind...
 
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Question for you guys. I've always tried to freeze my cigars before putting them in the humi. Is this overkill now that I have a wineador which I store in my basement? I've always done this for peace of mind, but it's a pain in the rear. Wny summers rarely go above 90, and my basement probably doesn't go above 70.
During the freezing process the existing moisture in the tobacco expands. This expansion breaks down the cells walls of organic material. That breakdown disrupts the aging process and starts (or accelerates ) the decomposition process. Put another way: Freezing and then thawing starts a rotting process not an aging. To age with consistent good results a low (between 40 to 55 degrees fahrenhight ) non-freezing environment is optimal. The lower temperature impedes undesirable bacteria and/or fungus (mold) growth and; at the same time it allows the partial fermenting bacteria to do it's job . The real key is controlled moderate environment stability. This same principle (though at lower temperature) is use to make fine grade A-prime aged beef steaks. Hope this helps.
 
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@J Bradley,
I say this respectfully, I'm not trying to tweak you in any way, but one of the problems with Internet forums is that incorrect information can continue to be promulgated in "Internet Echo" for a long time. Also, while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, nobody is entitled to their own facts, and I believe your post is factually incorrect in a couple respects, and your suggestion to store cigars long-term at 40-55 degrees Fahrenheit can be disastrous.

First, freezing will break down the cell walls of vegetable matter, say bell peppers for example, and that vegetable will be limp if frozen and thawed because of that. However, your comment about "breaks down the cells walls of organic material." is too broad--there is little danger of this in cigars because the tobacco in it is more or less dry (although humidified) as opposed to things like bell peppers which are pretty much liquid-filled cells. Also, your comment about freezing and thawing "starts a rotting process" implies that the freezing begins a process that will not start if cigars are not frozen, and which will continue once triggered by freezing, even after they are thawed, and there is no evidence (nor any article which I can find in extensive research) that is the case. I believe you are carrying over effects of freezing fruits and vegetables to freezing cigars and it just does not carry over. At all.

Secondly, your suggestion about storing cigars at 40-50 degrees long term is bound to be disastrous. The term "relative humidity" means relative to how much water air can hold in vapor form at various temperatures. In other words at 70 degrees, 70% humidity means 70% of the water vapor air can hold at 70 degrees before condensation begins. At 40 degrees, air can hold considerably less water vapor than it can at 70 degrees, and 70% humidity at 40 degrees (typical refrigeration temperatures) will dry out your cigars over time so that they will likely fall apart as you smoke them. Your 'facts' in both of these considerations are simply wrong.

I understand many people do not want to freeze cigars because their "opinion" is that it must be damaging in some way, but you will not find literature in academia or the tobacco industry that supports this. In fact, many of these sources suggest freezing as an ideal way to ensure you do not have problems with tobacco beetles. One such document is found here in PDF format ...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwiK8uKNofTGAhVFiw0KHU0FCPE&url=http://www.coresta.org/Guides/Guide-No09-Freezing-Parameters_Nov09.pdf&ei=U3GyVcr8H8WWNs2KoIgP&usg=AFQjCNH6JbcVZ1mozf7Q20_7ctP8aNhVmQ&bvm=bv.98476267,d.eXY&cad=rja

While I can understand someone saying, "I don't want to freeze my cigars because I am not convinced it is safe." Fine, it's your cigar collection, not mine. However, many, many, many cigar aficionados do freeze their cigars and I defy you to find a report, with photos, of anyone who having frozen his cigars properly for 48 hours or so, has observed any damage from it. Practice does not bear out your claims. The most common process cited on cigar forums that I can find indicates that this process is totally safe.

1. Wrap cigars in ziplock freezer bags. Freezer bags are thicker than normal food bags and are available in 1 gallon and 2 gallon sizes, which will hold larger boxes easily. They have a double zip, as well. Close the ziplock most of the way and then suck the air out of the bag by mouth and seal the rest of the way. Having a strong vapor barrier and little excess air is important, but freezer bags are purpose designed for this.

2. Put them in the freezer for 48 hours. In most home freezer sections of refrigerators the temperature is low enough that this will more than guarantee it will kill beetles, their larva, and their eggs. There is no reason to leave them any longer, and that amount of time should not harm properly wrapped cigars.

3. Put them in the refrigerator overnight or for up to 24 hours to allow them to come up to temperature slowly. This will bring them from about zero F to about 40 F.

4. Take them out and let them come to room temperature overnight or for up to 24 hours before opening them, so you don't risk having condensation form on cigars in a humid environment.

5. Let them rest for a week or so in your humidor and enjoy!

Again, not trying to tweak you, but from my reading and the experience shared by so many smokers here and on other forums, and from so many posts on cigar business sites about this, your post was simply filled with misinformation. Just trying to correct it for the brothers here. :)


P.S. How important is this? If you smoke out of a humidor and don't have a lot of cigars, probably not very important. If, on the other hand, you have hundreds of dollars of cigars stored in a large humidor, wineador or coolidor, I think you are foolhardy if you don't do this. These photos should convince you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cigar beetle damage&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMImc-hpKv0xgIVRZ-ACh2ChgI6&biw=1366&bih=619
 
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Thank you for responding to my memo about using a home refrigerator for cigar storage. For those of us that enjoy the leaf (and enjoy the free world ) the open response is received as one of healthy exchange of perspective. Further as adults it is not necessary to be obsequious unless perhaps, the response is just a veiled censorship? (Thus no “tweak” taken.)

Having reviewed the e-mail along with what we might refer to as “The 2004, CORESTA Sub Group report” I humbly draw the readers attention to the following: Note, how most people north of Fargo, North Dakota know all too well that the outside temperature can be the same one day they get “wet snow” when the exact outside temperature the next day gives them “dry snow” snow. Heck the inuit tribes of North America have over twenty different names for different amounts of “moisture in snow.” They know all to well that there is much more to humidity content than just temperature. Well, do the readers think there is a reason for this difference in actual moisture content? Think about it for a few days.

The use of language such as “starts a rotting process" is a series of sequence that if taken in that order stated, do begin a process of cellular decomposition. The process applied to plant and animal cellular structure is often noted colloquially as “frost bite” or “freezer burn.” Here we are concerned with plant cell structure. To that end the use of “heavy freezer bags” is raised in this "blog thread" correspondence. These bags are also know as high density polyethylene bags.

Thus we need also address the results noted about using high density polyethylene bags in the home freezer “storage process.” Many inquisitive minds among us ask; why is such storage forethought is necessary if the only thing to concern us is the “fixed temperature”? These questions will be addressed in my next memo.

As the freezing process in question kills the pest and larva at root issue; there is (yes in my opinion) a much more commanding question before us. It is the question of why do any among us even consider puffing dead carcass and left over larva of the Lasioderma Serricorne? Hey, we are talking about the cigarette tobacco beetle, an insect very much like the common furniture beetle! The photo link from JCinPA makes this point very well! Check it out.

Folks, it is safe to say that in this day-and-age we all can use a reputable tobacco supplier and obtain safe source leaf. It seems to me in this age of enlightenment that most reputable suppliers can work with us to replace our prized (yet infested) Maduro with fresh clean top shelf leaf product. Consider too that by using a good credit card the credit company will help the consumer get the right clean product or they will dump the vendor. Yes! Suppliers and the full business chain play a part in this too.
I will respond to these matters more fully in a few days. Until then . . . Puff on!
 
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@J Bradley,
I say this respectfully, I'm not trying to tweak you in any way, but one of the problems with Internet forums is that incorrect information can continue to be promulgated in "Internet Echo" for a long time. Also, while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, nobody is entitled to their own facts, and I believe your post is factually incorrect in a couple respects, and your suggestion to store cigars long-term at 40-55 degrees Fahrenheit can be disastrous.

First, freezing will break down the cell walls of vegetable matter, say bell peppers for example, and that vegetable will be limp if frozen and thawed because of that. However, your comment about "breaks down the cells walls of organic material." is too broad--there is little danger of this in cigars because the tobacco in it is more or less dry (although humidified) as opposed to things like bell peppers which are pretty much liquid-filled cells. Also, your comment about freezing and thawing "starts a rotting process" implies that the freezing begins a process that will not start if cigars are not frozen, and which will continue once triggered by freezing, even after they are thawed, and there is no evidence (nor any article which I can find in extensive research) that is the case. I believe you are carrying over effects of freezing fruits and vegetables to freezing cigars and it just does not carry over. At all.

Secondly, your suggestion about storing cigars at 40-50 degrees long term is bound to be disastrous. The term "relative humidity" means relative to how much water air can hold in vapor form at various temperatures. In other words at 70 degrees, 70% humidity means 70% of the water vapor air can hold at 70 degrees before condensation begins. At 40 degrees, air can hold considerably less water vapor than it can at 70 degrees, and 70% humidity at 40 degrees (typical refrigeration temperatures) will dry out your cigars over time so that they will likely fall apart as you smoke them. Your 'facts' in both of these considerations are simply wrong.

I understand many people do not want to freeze cigars because their "opinion" is that it must be damaging in some way, but you will not find literature in academia or the tobacco industry that supports this. In fact, many of these sources suggest freezing as an ideal way to ensure you do not have problems with tobacco beetles. One such document is found here in PDF format ...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwiK8uKNofTGAhVFiw0KHU0FCPE&url=http://www.coresta.org/Guides/Guide-No09-Freezing-Parameters_Nov09.pdf&ei=U3GyVcr8H8WWNs2KoIgP&usg=AFQjCNH6JbcVZ1mozf7Q20_7ctP8aNhVmQ&bvm=bv.98476267,d.eXY&cad=rja

While I can understand someone saying, "I don't want to freeze my cigars because I am not convinced it is safe." Fine, it's your cigar collection, not mine. However, many, many, many cigar aficionados do freeze their cigars and I defy you to find a report, with photos, of anyone who having frozen his cigars properly for 48 hours or so, has observed any damage from it. Practice does not bear out your claims. The most common process cited on cigar forums that I can find indicates that this process is totally safe.

1. Wrap cigars in ziplock freezer bags. Freezer bags are thicker than normal food bags and are available in 1 gallon and 2 gallon sizes, which will hold larger boxes easily. They have a double zip, as well. Close the ziplock most of the way and then suck the air out of the bag by mouth and seal the rest of the way. Having a strong vapor barrier and little excess air is important, but freezer bags are purpose designed for this.

2. Put them in the freezer for 48 hours. In most home freezer sections of refrigerators the temperature is low enough that this will more than guarantee it will kill beetles, their larva, and their eggs. There is no reason to leave them any longer, and that amount of time should not harm properly wrapped cigars.

3. Put them in the refrigerator overnight or for up to 24 hours to allow them to come up to temperature slowly. This will bring them from about zero F to about 40 F.

4. Take them out and let them come to room temperature overnight or for up to 24 hours before opening them, so you don't risk having condensation form on cigars in a humid environment.

5. Let them rest for a week or so in your humidor and enjoy!

Again, not trying to tweak you, but from my reading and the experience shared by so many smokers here and on other forums, and from so many posts on cigar business sites about this, your post was simply filled with misinformation. Just trying to correct it for the brothers here. :)


P.S. How important is this? If you smoke out of a humidor and don't have a lot of cigars, probably not very important. If, on the other hand, you have hundreds of dollars of cigars stored in a large humidor, wineador or coolidor, I think you are foolhardy if you don't do this. These photos should convince you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cigar beetle damage&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMImc-hpKv0xgIVRZ-ACh2ChgI6&biw=1366&bih=619
Review posting #306. Thanks
 
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OK, Mr. Bradley. You are very bright indeed, and there is so much cleverness in your first paragraph, I can hardly stand it. So now, I'll be a bit more direct.

Your information about the many words eskimos have for snow is very well known, many of us have seen the NatGeo show. But it is utterly irrelevant. This is not as complex as a weather system, we are posting in a thread about a well sealed wineador, and you cannot get the amount of water vapor at 40-50* Fahrenheit high enough to keep your cigars from drying out, in a closed and still system like that it will condense out. Some say you can store your cigars down to 60 degrees without mishap if you keep the RH at 70%. But 40 or 50 degrees? That's quite simply nonsense on stilts. I challenge you to find a credible cigar source (cigar maker, major cigar retailer, tobacco researcher at an agricultural university) to state that storing cigars long term at 40-50 degrees F is a good idea. I challenge you to find this because it does not exist. I'm no longer interested in your opinion (nor should you be interested in mine), the burden is on you to find a source we can reference, other than your anecdotal experience, which says this is a good idea. That's number 1.

Number 2 is this idea that if you get your cigars from a "reputable tobacco supplier" you won't have to worry about the beetle is, again, nonsense on stilts. The beetle and their larvae are part of nature, they can get a foothold at many stages along the process and the fact that you bought your cigar from a classy, big-city retailer or major online distributor is adequate insurance against the beetle is ... well I'm not going to argue with you, people here are intelligent to draw their own conclusions about that. I leave it to them.

Finally, your whole middle section on freezer burn--more nonsense on stilts. You did not address my points about the moisture content in cells and the relative dryness of the tobacco product versus various other vegetable products at all. And your words about the freezer bag left me--well I have no idea what you are trying to say, which means you are not a clear communicator. In addition to finding a reputable source that says storing cigars at 40-50 degrees F is a great idea (other than you or your Uncle Freddie, again, I'm no longer interested in a "healthy exchange of perspective", I'm calling you out here), I'd like you to find a credible source that says freezing your cigars in the manner I described is detrimental to the cigars.

Many, many thousands of cigar aficionados and cigar business people and cigar researchers disagree with you and the evidence abounds and is easily found on the Internet. You have presented no evidence for your claims, probably because there is no evidence for them, and I challenge you to find them and post them here. When you do, I will be more than happy to publicly eat crow, right here. Please stop insisting on spreading your misinformation, people, often less experienced, come here to learn, and you are causing confusion.
 
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OK, Mr. Bradley. You are very bright indeed, and there is so much cleverness in your first paragraph, I can hardly stand it. So now, I'll be a bit more direct.

Your information about the many words eskimos have for snow is very well known, many of us have seen the NatGeo show. But it is utterly irrelevant. This is not as complex as a weather system, we are posting in a thread about a well sealed wineador, and you cannot get the amount of water vapor at 40-50* Fahrenheit high enough to keep your cigars from drying out, in a closed and still system like that it will condense out. Some say you can store your cigars down to 60 degrees without mishap if you keep the RH at 70%. But 40 or 50 degrees? That's quite simply nonsense on stilts. I challenge you to find a credible cigar source (cigar maker, major cigar retailer, tobacco researcher at an agricultural university) to state that storing cigars long term at 40-50 degrees F is a good idea. I challenge you to find this because it does not exist. I'm no longer interested in your opinion (nor should you be interested in mine), the burden is on you to find a source we can reference, other than your anecdotal experience, which says this is a good idea. That's number 1.

Number 2 is this idea that if you get your cigars from a "reputable tobacco supplier" you won't have to worry about the beetle is, again, nonsense on stilts. The beetle and their larvae are part of nature, they can get a foothold at many stages along the process and the fact that you bought your cigar from a classy, big-city retailer or major online distributor is adequate insurance against the beetle is ... well I'm not going to argue with you, people here are intelligent to draw their own conclusions about that. I leave it to them.

Finally, your whole middle section on freezer burn--more nonsense on stilts. You did not address my points about the moisture content in cells and the relative dryness of the tobacco product versus various other vegetable products at all. And your words about the freezer bag left me--well I have no idea what you are trying to say, which means you are not a clear communicator. In addition to finding a reputable source that says storing cigars at 40-50 degrees F is a great idea (other than you or your Uncle Freddie, again, I'm no longer interested in a "healthy exchange of perspective", I'm calling you out here), I'd like you to find a credible source that says freezing your cigars in the manner I described is detrimental to the cigars.

Many, many thousands of cigar aficionados and cigar business people and cigar researchers disagree with you and the evidence abounds and is easily found on the Internet. You have presented no evidence for your claims, probably because there is no evidence for them, and I challenge you to find them and post them here. When you do, I will be more than happy to publicly eat crow, right here. Please stop insisting on spreading your misinformation, people, often less experienced, come here to learn, and you are causing confusion.
 
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Thank you again for the opportunity to offer reliable resource material to the readers here. Just so we are on the same page here; we are talking about converting a domestic refrigerator to cigar storage and, Tobacco Beetle infestation control.

To that end we start with the domestic refrigerator as it is a purpose engineered machine. The specific design of these domestic refrigerators uses moving air to wick heat from the content inside. Put another way the domestic refrigerators takes heat away they do not put cold in. They do this by moving conditioned air in and out of the structural box lining the inside. This is a controlled atmosphere within the noted box. The same thing happens within the compartment of a frost free freezer. Upon review, “The 2004, CORESTA Sub Group report” seems not to have considered these properties of a domestic refrigerator.

It is the moving air that desiccates (dries out) the items inside the refrigerator and freezer in question. Which is what happens in the grander scale to the snow that was noted in the past posting. (Many here have never seen the “NatGeo Show” that JCinPA referred to. We may only wish them well.) Simple put, the more wind generally the dryer more icy crystal type snow and, less wind wetter snow. To control this moisture effect the refrigerator, many people turn to some type of bagging use within our domestic refrigerators. Yet even the high density polyethylene bags (AKA heavy freezer bags) noted in my past response transpire or surrender moisture through their surface. The transpiration is true of polyethylene even in a “well sealed wineadore” as JcinPA has tried to redirect our attention to.

Consider the very good article for Smokeshope by: Dale Scott. Mr. Scott is also the author of: "How to Select and Enjoy Premium Cigars...and Save Money!" 1997 Available to tobacconists. Contact Coast Creative Services, P.O. Box 113, Julian, CA 92036.

The article for Smokeshope is viewable at: http://www.smokeshopmag.com/1298/primer.htm

There we see that the last few paragraphs point to the issue of minimizing the desiccating effect in a low temperature storage environment. Therein, Smokeshope, February, 1998, featured the profile on Inter-Continental Cigar Corporation. The reporter notes that Inter-Continental Cigar Corporation:

“. . . consolidate them into manageable-sized bundles and wrap them in vapor-barrier freezer wrap; the metallized Mylar kind that is absolutely air- and moisture-tight. Regular plastic won't cut it. Use a similar vapor-proof tape to seal them.”​

The regular plastic they are talking about folks is the high density polyethylene freezer bags noted herein and in my last report. Further they go on to say:

“. . . Be careful to remove the Mylar vapor seal from the cigars only when the humidity of the environment is low, so moisture from the atmosphere doesn't collect on their wrappers, which can mottle or pucker them. It can also warp the covers on the cigar boxes.”​

That is the same as ground condensation and yes, just what happens in the weather outside when you get dew on your car. So we move on to the information at website: www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar-pests.pdf

In the last portion of the article we see that Japanese tobacco firms have used a range of 49 to 59 degrees Fahrenheit for long term problem free storage. True the lower range number is within the range noted in my first response and upper number is higher than my memo. It is an overlapping range. This range may be narrowed by the use of aftermarket power humidifiers within the domestic refrigerator conversion we are discussing here. This “fine tunning process” is important because the volume, fixed speed, and velocity (change in speed) of air displacement varies between domestic refrigerator manufacturers. Should the reader need more information please contact the engineering department of the manufacture. They should be able to provide you a differential calculus formula that plots the relative humidity of their own design refrigerator. The solution here is: If an over the counter electronic computerized humidifier is used; the refrigerator conversion will be self regulating based upon the user settings.

The B O T L reader may care to review this report and site from the University of Florida at:

It is informative as it offers an option of both cold and hot storage infestation control.

“Items can be placed in the refrigerator or freezer (16 days at 36°F, seven days at 25°F or 32°F for four to seven days) to kill all stages.”​

Or how about this heat method from the same University of Florida report:

“Heating small quantities of infested material in an oven (190°F for one hour, 120°F for 16 to 24 hours) also is effective.”​

Moving on the reader will find a full study provided by (hold your breath now) the United States Department of Agriculture, the Agricultural Marketing Service Unit that can be down loaded in P.D.F. from this address:


If we turn to page 35 of this USDA report it notes that:

“Cool storage is also widely used in the cigar industry to prevent cigarette beetle infestation. Valuable sweated tobaccos and finished cigars are stored in rooms at 34° to 55° F. No infestation can occur at these temperatures, since the beetle is inactivated.”​

Thus we see an industry used temperature spread with an even lower end than what was stated in my first memo. The above used USDA report contains a list of 19 contributory cited literature sources. I invite the reader to study this report. The report is very good and is currently used by the United States Tobacco farmers and processors as one of the “go-to study sources.”

As stated in my past report: A fair reputable tobacco vender will work with you if there is a problem with the product they sell you. They will do it because they want your repeat business and good public relations. Personally I encountered wrappers that were too thin, excessive stem pieces in a cigar body and, cutters that were not sharp; the replacement and feedback were all handled very well by the venders.

As many of us know: If you use a well known credit card and receive an item you did not order (such as Beetles or other vermin) and after notifying the seller “in writing” without getting a correction by the seller, the credit card company will reverse the charges and discipline the seller. Remember too, that you need to disinfect your storage that contained or was in proximity to the infestation before you restock it.
Now we have seen:
1. The explanation of the true difference between a repurposed domestic refrigerator and an engineered cigar cooler,
A. Why that difference effects the items inside,
B. How to compensate for the difference with an over the counter electronic controlled humidifier,
2. A review (with reference sources) by Smokeshopemag.com that shows the use of Mylar for remediation of desiccation and,
3. Three cited sources including a University and the United States Department of Agriculture report with over nineteen additional contributory sources that offer cigar storage ranging from 55 degrees down to 35 degrees Fahrenheit.​

The people here at B O T L are not confused! They are very intelligent and capable of doing the follow-up study for their own use.

In closing, no one here need “call one out” or, “eat crow” or, act like an adolescent emotional child. The wise reader will see that a simple apology and polite conduct will promote respect and further contribution for this very good “Brothers Of The Leaf” site. Thus, the apology from JCinPA is hereby accepted.

So . . . now we light up and puff on . . .
 
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Question for you guys. I've always tried to freeze my cigars before putting them in the humi. Is this overkill now that I have a wineador which I store in my basement? I've always done this for peace of mind, but it's a pain in the rear. Wny summers rarely go above 90, and my basement probably doesn't go above 70.
Just a follow-up on the thread . . .
Thank you again for the opportunity to offer reliable resource material to the readers here. Just so we are on the same page here; we are talking about converting a domestic refrigerator to cigar storage and, Tobacco Beetle infestation control.

To that end we start with the domestic refrigerator as it is a purpose engineered machine. The specific design of these domestic refrigerators uses moving air to wick heat from the content inside. Put another way the domestic refrigerators takes heat away they do not put cold in. They do this by moving conditioned air in and out of the structural box lining the inside. This is a controlled atmosphere within the noted box. The same thing happens within the compartment of a frost free freezer. Upon review, “The 2004, CORESTA Sub Group report” seems not to have considered these properties of a domestic refrigerator.

It is the moving air that desiccates (dries out) the items inside the refrigerator and freezer in question. Which is what happens in the grander scale to the snow that was noted in the past posting. (Many here have never seen the “NatGeo Show” that JCinPA referred to. We may only wish them well.) Simple put, the more wind generally the dryer more icy crystal type snow and, less wind wetter snow. To control this moisture effect the refrigerator, many people turn to some type of bagging use within our domestic refrigerators. Yet even the high density polyethylene bags (AKA heavy freezer bags) noted in my past response transpire or surrender moisture through their surface. The transpiration is true of polyethylene even in a “well sealed wineadore” as JcinPA has tried to redirect our attention to.

Consider the very good article for Smokeshope by: Dale Scott. Mr. Scott is also the author of: "How to Select and Enjoy Premium Cigars...and Save Money!" 1997 Available to tobacconists. Contact Coast Creative Services, P.O. Box 113, Julian, CA 92036.

The article for Smokeshope is viewable at: http://www.smokeshopmag.com/1298/primer.htm

There we see that the last few paragraphs point to the issue of minimizing the desiccating effect in a low temperature storage environment. Therein, Smokeshope, February, 1998, featured the profile on Inter-Continental Cigar Corporation. The reporter notes that Inter-Continental Cigar Corporation:

“. . . consolidate them into manageable-sized bundles and wrap them in vapor-barrier freezer wrap; the metallized Mylar kind that is absolutely air- and moisture-tight. Regular plastic won't cut it. Use a similar vapor-proof tape to seal them.”​

The regular plastic they are talking about folks is the high density polyethylene freezer bags noted herein and in my last report. Further they go on to say:

“. . . Be careful to remove the Mylar vapor seal from the cigars only when the humidity of the environment is low, so moisture from the atmosphere doesn't collect on their wrappers, which can mottle or pucker them. It can also warp the covers on the cigar boxes.”​

That is the same as ground condensation and yes, just what happens in the weather outside when you get dew on your car. So we move on to the information at website: www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar-pests.pdf

In the last portion of the article we see that Japanese tobacco firms have used a range of 49 to 59 degrees Fahrenheit for long term problem free storage. True the lower range number is within the range noted in my first response and upper number is higher than my memo. It is an overlapping range. This range may be narrowed by the use of aftermarket power humidifiers within the domestic refrigerator conversion we are discussing here. This “fine tunning process” is important because the volume, fixed speed, and velocity (change in speed) of air displacement varies between domestic refrigerator manufacturers. Should the reader need more information please contact the engineering department of the manufacture. They should be able to provide you a differential calculus formula that plots the relative humidity of their own design refrigerator. The solution here is: If an over the counter electronic computerized humidifier is used; the refrigerator conversion will be self regulating based upon the user settings.

The B O T L reader may care to review this report and site from the University of Florida at:

It is informative as it offers an option of both cold and hot storage infestation control.

“Items can be placed in the refrigerator or freezer (16 days at 36°F, seven days at 25°F or 32°F for four to seven days) to kill all stages.”​

Or how about this heat method from the same University of Florida report:

“Heating small quantities of infested material in an oven (190°F for one hour, 120°F for 16 to 24 hours) also is effective.”​

Moving on the reader will find a full study provided by (hold your breath now) the United States Department of Agriculture, the Agricultural Marketing Service Unit that can be down loaded in P.D.F. from this address:


If we turn to page 35 of this USDA report it notes that:

“Cool storage is also widely used in the cigar industry to prevent cigarette beetle infestation. Valuable sweated tobaccos and finished cigars are stored in rooms at 34° to 55° F. No infestation can occur at these temperatures, since the beetle is inactivated.”​

Thus we see an industry used temperature spread with an even lower end than what was stated in my first memo. The above used USDA report contains a list of 19 contributory cited literature sources. I invite the reader to study this report. The report is very good and is currently used by the United States Tobacco farmers and processors as one of the “go-to study sources.”

As stated in my past report: A fair reputable tobacco vender will work with you if there is a problem with the product they sell you. They will do it because they want your repeat business and good public relations. Personally I encountered wrappers that were too thin, excessive stem pieces in a cigar body and, cutters that were not sharp; the replacement and feedback were all handled very well by the venders.

As many of us know: If you use a well known credit card and receive an item you did not order (such as Beetles or other vermin) and after notifying the seller “in writing” without getting a correction by the seller, the credit card company will reverse the charges and discipline the seller. Remember too, that you need to disinfect your storage that contained or was in proximity to the infestation before you restock it.
Now we have seen:
1. The explanation of the true difference between a repurposed domestic refrigerator and an engineered cigar cooler,
A. Why that difference effects the items inside,
B. How to compensate for the difference with an over the counter electronic controlled humidifier,
2. A review (with reference sources) by Smokeshopemag.com that shows the use of Mylar for remediation of desiccation and,
3. Three cited sources including a University and the United States Department of Agriculture report with over nineteen additional contributory sources that offer cigar storage ranging from 55 degrees down to 35 degrees Fahrenheit.​

The people here at B O T L are not confused! They are very intelligent and capable of doing the follow-up study for their own use.

In closing, no one here need “call one out” or, “eat crow” or, act like an adolescent emotional child. The wise reader will see that a simple apology and polite conduct will promote respect and further contribution for this very good “Brothers Of The Leaf” site. Thus, the apology from JCinPA is hereby accepted.

So . . . now we light up and puff on . . .
 
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There was no apology from JCinPA to accept.

Your articles are interesting. But they support the short-term freezing method for killing the beetle, larvae and eggs, and in your original post here, you were arguing that was dangerous. Your material refutes that.

Your article from the USDA talks about storing cigars at refrigerator temperatures for up to 90 days, but also supports my thesis that shorter storage at lower temperatures will kill the bugs. Nobody is going to age cigars at refrigerator temperatures for years, and it is ill-advised.

Long-term aging of cigars should be done at 60-70 degrees (I'm talking years), in a humidity-controlled environment like the wineador (or coolidor). I'm glad you are having fun researching this, and I appreciate your research material that supports my recommendation of freezing cigars as having no deleterious effects! Thank you! :D
 
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Fight fight fight fight (Said like an elementary school kid).
Just kidding. I got through about half of your guy's posts' so far. Very interesting reads to the both of you!
 
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Fight fight fight fight (Said like an elementary school kid).
Just kidding. I got through about half of your guy's posts' so far. Very interesting reads to the both of you!
Thanks, good to see there are people here adult enough to act like real humans. This JCinPA has and agenda of promoting the "The 2004, CORESTA Sub Group report" even when it is off point. Looks like He is the author. Shades of William Shakespeare ie: “Methinks thou dost protest too much!”
 
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There was no apology from JCinPA to accept.

Your articles are interesting. But they support the short-term freezing method for killing the beetle, larvae and eggs, and in your original post here, you were arguing that was dangerous. Your material refutes that.

Your article from the USDA talks about storing cigars at refrigerator temperatures for up to 90 days, but also supports my thesis that shorter storage at lower temperatures will kill the bugs. Nobody is going to age cigars at refrigerator temperatures for years, and it is ill-advised.

Long-term aging of cigars should be done at 60-70 degrees (I'm talking years), in a humidity-controlled environment like the wineador (or coolidor). I'm glad you are having fun researching this, and I appreciate your research material that supports my recommendation of freezing cigars as having no deleterious effects! Thank you! :D
Glad to help the BOTL members here see the full story. Glad we agree about the return of infested product using credit cards and reputable dealers. Glad to see we agree that the Mylar is better than polyethylene freezer bags because of condensation issue. Glad to get you the sources you requested. Glad to have the University of Florida report and USDA report you requested. Glad to see you and the BOTL members read the USDA report (depending on the setting in Adobe the quote can show up on screen at page 35 or in print at page 37).

Hey you have fun here trying to censor the truth or not. Never bet you would “eat crow” when faced with the truth you asked for. Now we all know (by your affirmation ) you are the source of very bad science called the “The 2004, CORESTA Sub Group report” report.

Hey William Shakespeare said it: “Methinks thou dost protest too much!” Well John JCin PA we are happy to correct you more often in the fullness of time. Real good to see you are such a great sport about it. Good for you!
 
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Very true lol. I read it all and can sum it up in just a couple sentences:

Freezing cigars will kill your beetles and is safe.
When you freeze, make sure the bag is sealed tight and doesn't let moisture in or out.
Store your stogies between 60 and 70 degrees. A few degrees colder won't hurt anything.
Fin
Thank you. :)

Fellas, this isn't even close to a fight, this is simply a disagreement. Mr. Bradley, I don't know what your issue is, frankly, I'm having trouble following you now. This thread is about wineadors, specifically for their use in long-term storage of a large number of cigars.

Here's the deal--your first post said freezing cigars was dangerous and would start a "rotting process". some of your sources you've posted actually support the freezing of cigars to eradicate potential beetle problems. That is flat out wrong (short-term freezing creates problems), that's not my opinion, that's a fact, and the freezing process is recommended by many professional tobacco sources, and by the experience of many tobacco sources is not damaging at all. I can understand some folks worrying about it, but when the information gets out, they should be OK with it.

Then you flat out recommended storing cigars long-term like we are contemplating with wineadors, at refrigerator temperatures! That is also just flat out wrong, despite the fact that some industrial storage facilities can force enough moisture in the air with special humidification equipment not available to us retail consumers in our homes. Storing cigars long-term at refrigerator temperatures without highly specialized equipment will dry them out, and that's also not an opinion, it's a fact, well borne out by experience.

The thing about mylar versus plastic is beyond ridiculous, IMO. While there is no doubt mylar is a better vapor barrier than plastic (on that we agree), the heavy duty ziplock freezer bag is perfectly suited for the task I'm recommending, namely 48 hours in a freezer followed by 12 hours in a frig. The freezer bag is perfectly fine for that purpose and there is no need to look for mylar bags, but if you like them, go ahead. Trying to paint the freezer bag as inadequate for that task ... well, as you say, BOTL members are thoughtful, I am confident they'll figure that out for themselves.

Finally, in your first post, you suggest that dealing with "reputable" cigar dealers would eliminate the need to worry about the cigar beetle. You did not say this, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the implication there was that cigars from reputable dealers would not have beetles. Later you clarified that if you bought cigars from reputable dealers with a credit card you could get your money back if they had beetles. This is also beyond ridiculous! So I have 400+ cigars in my wineador from maybe 4-6 different online sources and several B&M shops, collected over an extended period of time, and two or three years from now if I have a beetle problem, I'm going to identify the source and get my money back? Then deal with the issue, which means freezing the remaining cigars anyway? Which is what I should have done in the first place? And risk damage to many expensive and perhaps impossible to replace cigars?? Please!

Mr. Bradley, you are a very nice guy, we can all tell that from your posts. I've got nothing against you personally, and I'm not in this to "win" any fight, really I'm not. This isn't even about us, you and me. My issue with your first post is that many people come here to learn about cigars and while there is a wealth of good information here, noobs cannot distinguish between good and bad information, and they need to be protected from bad information. Your original post in this thread was so full of bad information, it simply needed to be pointed out. And this is not a discussion for "exploring differences" and going on about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's a discussion of practical import and people come to this forum to learn how to properly care for expensive cigars and store them long-term. Your meanderings here are both waaaay out of the mainstream of established cigar storage practice, and contradictory, and I felt a duty to point them out. I'm not "going after you" personally, at least that is not my intent. And I have no idea what the CORESTA sub-group report is, and I'm not part of any mysterious conspiracy surrounding whatever it is they said. Why not post a link to that so we can read it and find out what's so nefarious?

Look, you are a nice guy, the folks here are wonderful, and it's a great forum! Please post all over the place and get to know us, we're very nice (including me :) ). But please stop this stuff in this thread, will you? It's wasting a lot of bandwidth and has the potential to confuse some folks looking for mainstream cigar storage information. I'm sorry if my tone sounds confrontational, but I'm simply not willing to concede any of your points as having merit, and your "at least we can all agree" tactic is, well, it requires a firm response, as in, "No, we don't all agree on..."

And thanks again to CigaRamento!

Freezing cigars will kill your beetles and is safe.
When you freeze, make sure the bag is sealed tight and doesn't let moisture in or out.
Store your stogies between 60 and 70 degrees. A few degrees colder won't hurt anything.
 
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I'll freeze ten to kill beetles then never store them in a refrigerator.
 
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