Sudden moisture in tupperdor.

[f-bizzle]

Need your help, guys. I have a couple large (20x15x7) ziploc airtight storage containers that I've been using for months. 65% Boveda packs, Spanish cedar, air it out frequently, container is 80% full. (We can bypass those common answers)

For a couple of months, the rh has been locked at 65%, and the sticks were great. I opened them tonight, and every damn cigar has excess moisture in the filler. The hydro is still reading 65%, and there have been no temperature differences (I test my hygros often enough to confirm they are fine) but the cigars are suddenly 'wet' and unsmokable.

I didn't add any new sticks, so nothing overhumidified entered the fray... any ideas on why there was a sudden upswing in moisture?

 

[sofc]

How did you check the moisture in the cigar itself?

 

[f-bizzle]

the tobacco inside the foot actually looks damper than usual. I attempted to smoke one- and almost couldn't get a pre-light draw through it at all. Like I said, these cigars were smoking perfect a couple of days ago.

When that stick was an absolute failure, I ripped it open to see the guts... the filler definitely absorbed some extra moisture, I just can't figure out why... especially when my rh readings inside the bucket never shifted.

 

[Nacho Daddy]

according to your hydrometer there was no increase in moisture.
Is the foot spongy and compresses easily?
can you draw it or is it plugged?
did you try a different cigar?

 

[f-bizzle]

There is excessive resistance on the draw. I tried another one, lit it anyway, and what very little I could actually pull from it, tasted like flavorless steam.

The foot feel- the looser rolled cigars are really spongy... the tighter rolled cigars are like bricks (not dry hard, but swollen hard).

Basically, all of these sticks suddenly resemble overhumidified crap that you receive from some online retailers

 

[f-bizzle]

Oh, and as far as the hygrometers go, not only have I tested them numerous times through history... But there are a couple in each container, and none are showing a difference.

 

[Bruce T.]

Let me get this straight. A sealed Tupperware 80% full, multiple calibrated hygrometers, Bodeva packs, RH consistent up until now...... OK I have the answer.

You pissed off the cigar gods ! There's no other explanation. Sorry.

 

[Cigary43]

I've never experienced this and I've had tupperadors for 5 years and always use KL...never Bovedas. I'm at a loss for an explanation.

 

[Bondo 440]

Fizzy- You are talking about some pretty wet cigars here. So see below.
I am using 76%RH as a baseline because the conditions you are describing would obviously exceed this value.

Put one hygrometer OUTSIDE the tupperdor.
Observe the readings periodically throughout the day. A holiday would be a good day to do this. Like um. Today.

Results:

[ You see 76% RH or higher outside] External RH breach
Move the Tupperdor away from the window, heater vent, etc.
Consider failing or hastily closed seal
Replace Tupperdor, or control media ( Bodeva )

[ You never exceed 76% RH outside ] The ambient RH does not exist
You are the one who introduced the excessive humidity.
Stop adding wet cigars, wet Bodeva, damp boxes, trays, or whatever.
Suspect dog or cat. ( yep . Animal may be resting on the unit. ) That's your riddle...

Don't Care Anyway
Remove everything, add cigars, and sock full of silica based cat litter, in a new container and move on.
Good Luck !

 

[Nacho Daddy]

judging by the symptoms you are right,over moist conditions.
Is there anyone in your house who could have opened this?
is there a crack or break in the unit?
The one problem I see is that you are describing overmoist conditions ,yet your Hydrometers are reading 65%.What temp do you keep your house ?
I would question this first.........
Good news is you can dry them down and they will be fine.

 

[Bruce T.]

Hey f-bizzel, please let us know what you eventually find out. It would be helpful. This one is a real head scratcher. Many people complain about minor fluctuations but your problem seems more serious. For your cigars to feel spongy and not burn right makes them sound like they are REALLY wet. I'd love to find out why (as I'm sure you would too).

 

[herfdog]

I also vote for removing humidification and dry boxing with dry medium while monitoring. Maybe split the Tupperware in two less filled ones?

 

[Zmilin]

Need your help, guys. I have a couple large (20x15x7) ziploc airtight storage containers that I've been using for months. 65% Boveda packs, Spanish cedar, air it out frequently, container is 80% full. (We can bypass those common answers)

For a couple of months, the rh has been locked at 65%, and the sticks were great. I opened them tonight, and every damn cigar has excess moisture in the filler. The hydro is still reading 65%, and there have been no temperature differences (I test my hygros often enough to confirm they are fine) but the cigars are suddenly 'wet' and unsmokable.

I didn't add any new sticks, so nothing overhumidified entered the fray... any ideas on why there was a sudden upswing in moisture?

- Was anything added recently (in the last few weeks to couple months)?
- Are the cigars all stored in boxes or are they all in trays or is it a mix?
- Has there been a big temp fluctuation recently in the house (even for a couple hours)?

 

[f-bizzle]

Just to cover everyone's points-

My first theory is, in fact, that i pissed off the cigar gods.

The room I keep my cigars in is always sitting at 67-68 degrees. No major fluctuations, and I've never seen the inside of my container show anything other than 66-67.

The wintertime humidity inside my house (I have a hygrometer sitting in the room) is usually in the 45-55% range. I've thought of a leak, but at this time, a leak would hurt me in a drying aspect.

Nothing new has been added in the last month, but I did throw 5 or 6 new cigars in there closer to 2 months ago. (other purchases are still in quarantine in other containers).

I am absolutely stuck in figuring out anything that could be DIFFERENT in the last few days.

 

[Cigary43]

Been thinking about this even more...as long as the outside is around what you said it was...then something else was introduced inside the tupperador and 5 cigars or even a few more won't raise it to that level. Remove the Bovedas. ...put in a container of dry KL...about 5 ounces and let it sit for at least 5 hours and the RH will fall. Check the next morning as it should fall into the low 60's as that will solve your problem. ..your next step will be to increase the RH....slowly by SPRAYING DW over the KL..2 sprays and check again in 3 hours. It should rise by at least 2%...that's your new formula until you get the results you want at the RH you're looking for. Keep us updated.

 

[f-bizzle]

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the temperature raised without my knowledge.

I asked the guys at the b&m, and I got a science lecture out of it. Apparently, there is relative humidity and absolute humidity. so my hygro could read 65% all day long, but at 60 degrees the air would contain less moisture than it would at 70 degrees. Therefore, higher temps would leave cigars wetter and they'd be drier at lower temps.

If that holds true... then I have to wonder if there was, in fact, a raise in temperature long enough to create this issue.

 

[nayslayer]

Think your on it bizzle

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Happy Idiot]

Put dome cedar splints in it to help obsorb the moisture.

 

[Cigary43]

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the temperature raised without my knowledge.

I asked the guys at the b&m, and I got a science lecture out of it. Apparently, there is relative humidity and absolute humidity. so my hygro could read 65% all day long, but at 60 degrees the air would contain less moisture than it would at 70 degrees. Therefore, higher temps would leave cigars wetter and they'd be drier at lower temps.

If that holds true... then I have to wonder if there was, in fact, a raise in temperature long enough to create this issue.

**Understand that there are also tupperadors ( tupperware ) that do not have advanced moisture protection and are cheaply made...gasp...so it behooves us to buy good named brand tupperware devices that are made better than others.
I think in order to achieve that you'd have to expose the tupperador to that outside environment for weeks, months, to such an extreme that it changes...and I've had tupperadors in such environments for months with minimal change...read the rest of my post.

The problem with that theory is that tupperware "seals"...( the hygro measures the RH in the sealed environment...not outside of it.) If you leave a tupperador in an environment where the outside temps are hot/cold then there is a change that can have an effect but I've left some of my tupperware in the garage or basement where the outside temps were in the 50's...( and the inside RH was still rock solid at 65% )...likewise I've had a tupperador in the garage where the outside temp was 85 ( and the inside was still 65%RH ) so as long as the tupperador shows no sign of a breech or that the cigars were so wet that it changed the chemistry then I suspect the Boveda. If the inside of the tupperador is that high....dry KL is going to bring the RH down in a matter of hours. If you have those little paks of silica that you get when you buy some shoes...those will bring RH down as well....that's their function.

I hate to get into the debate of KL, Boveda, Beads, gels, etc. but the proven method of a one way absorption is going to be KL. It does not give off as some think as that is a two way process like Breads, Boveda....they absorb and give off which is why they are so popular...but at times they can cause issues of which you are seeing. Yes, they are a good means of dealing with RH issues but still....I've read so much about differing types of humidification which is why I choose KL as my only means of dealing with RH because of its inherent mode of control. I've literally had tupperadors for a year where the RH has not changed by more than 2% plus or minus so adding DW at any given time was maybe once or twice a year.....if the RH shot up more than I wanted it to then I added an ounce or two of KL...if it went down by more than 3% I spritzed the litter twice and by a few hours it was right back where I wanted it.

 

[f-bizzle]

Cigary43, These days I'm thinking harder about alternatives. I initially grabbed Boveda, because they seemed simple and less likely for me to somehow fuck up.

One complaint I do have about them is that they TAKE moisture much slower than they release it... as in, I'm really starting to believe that cigars suck up moisture way faster than Boveda does. It might not usually be a problem, as most people have a decent amount of control in things, but if there's a shift of some sort... fuuuuuck.

In the past, if rh was a little high (new sticks or whatnot) I've depended on an extra peice of unseasoned Spanish cedar, to help reduce. Boveda isnt fast, and it has limits on how much it can actually take in due to space.