New Winedaor - humidity fluctuation help

[Pailong]

The seal on the door is fine - if I turn the wine cooler off and unplug it, the humidity stays at a rock solid 69% with no RH swings. It's only when the fan turns on - as I mentioned in my original post, I've read that due to the laws of science, cold air cannot hold as much humidity as warm air so when the fan kicks in, it is cooling the air down thus removing humidity - either that or the fan at the back is drawing air in/sucking air out to cool the wine cooler, thus my humidity drops about 10-15% but bounces back straight away as soon as the cooler fan stops. Again, some people mention that it's just the cold air swirling around when the fan kicks in so my hygrometer is just reading the cool air moving around and that I shouldn't be worried about this as my beads and boveda are keeping everything in order (plus everything is in cigar boxes).

The room ambient temp is around 20C right now. So I shouldn't really need to plug it in but I want a cooler wineador for my cigars to age slower (17-18C) - I also want to experiment bringing the temperature down to 12C and 62-56% humidity to really slow it down (but this would require at least 5-10 years of aging).

I just wanted to see how everyone else's wineador works and if anyone who has similar experiences can share their knowledge?

 

[boltman]

Before installing fans my wineador would typically read 5% lower at the top as compared to the bottom.
63% top
68% bottom

 

[Bruce T.]

So I plugged my drain hole by taping it with black electrical tape - this seems to have somewhat made things a tiny bit more stable but my RH still drops down to 53-55% humidity when the fan turns on but bounces back to 65-69% when the fan turns off. The drain hole being plugged seems to have slowed the RH swings down but it still happens.

The RH of the air may fluctuate every time the fans turn on but your cigars are not affected. The moisture in cigars is very slow to change so a few minutes of change in the air will not affect the cigars.
Also, the reason people plug the drain hole is to create a closed system so the the RH doesn't change. The moisture in the winador stays in the winador and does not drain out, therefore creating a more stable environment.

 

[Pailong]

The RH of the air may fluctuate every time the fans turn on but your cigars are not affected. The moisture in cigars is very slow to change so a few minutes of change in the air will not affect the cigars.
Also, the reason people plug the drain hole is to create a closed system so the the RH doesn't change. The moisture in the winador stays in the winador and does not drain out, therefore creating a more stable environment.

What you said about the RH of the air fluctuating is not affecting the cigars sounds logical. But what do you think about the accumulation of RH swinging over 5-10 year period when aging the cigars? That's several hundred (or thousands) times the RH will swing (considering it swings several times a day from what I'm seeing). Food for thought I guess.

 

[JG358]

Hmm wonder if my new air 281 has a drain hole. Lol

I would think so... my New Air 180E has one.

 

[Bruce T.]

What you said about the RH of the air fluctuating is not affecting the cigars sounds logical. But what do you think about the accumulation of RH swinging over 5-10 year period when aging the cigars? That's several hundred (or thousands) times the RH will swing (considering it swings several times a day from what I'm seeing). Food for thought I guess.

Remember that the cigars aren't fluctuating several times per day, only the air is. The cigars don't have time to change. If the drain hole is plugged then the moisture that condenses out does not escape and will go back into the air as it warms up and everything stays solid.

If there are changes in RH that affect the cigars you would see it in the wrappers. If the cigars swell and shrink the wrapper may eventually crack. I can't see it happening in your case.

My winador has no cooling so this is not an issue for me but I haven't heard this concern from others so I curious if others see this type of fluctuation in Rh when the cooler kicks on.

 

[Pailong]

Remember that the cigars aren't fluctuating several times per day, only the air is. The cigars don't have time to change. If the drain hole is plugged then the moisture that condenses out does not escape and will go back into the air as it warms up and everything stays solid.

If there are changes in RH that affect the cigars you would see it in the wrappers. If the cigars swell and shrink the wrapper may eventually crack. I can't see it happening in your case.

My winador has no cooling so this is not an issue for me but I haven't heard this concern from others so I curious if others see this type of fluctuation in Rh when the cooler kicks on.

Thanks. Sounds about right with regards to the cigars aren't fluctuating (I hope not anyway!). I unplugged my drain hole because the extra moisture that condenses was raising my RH levels up to 75%. Even with the drain hole plugged the RH swinging was still happening anyway so it didn't make a difference to me to plug the hole.

If your wineador has no cooling then you wouldn't see the RH swings that's right. But as far as I know, cooler kicking in = RH swing fluctuation. Cold air can't hold as much humidity.

I'm going to place a hygrometer inside a cigar box to see what the readings are when the RH fluctuates. But I think you're right - it shouldn't affect my cigars inside the boxes, only the air temporarily when the cooler turns on. I hope...

 

[JZBdano]

I don't think a slight change in temperature drastically changes the RH of the air in a sealed thermoelectric winador. I am taking a WAG here but I think most hygrometers use an internal calculation from their moisture sensor and temperature sensor to put out an estimated RH. It is possible that the temp sensor responds to change quicker than the moisture sensor throwing off the calculation temporarily. To me it does not seem possible for your beads to recover that much lost humidity shortly after the cooling and fan turns off. Without air exchange I don't think that the RH would fluctuate very much on a thermoelectric. I would not recommend plugging the drain, very little air exchange happens through that small tube and you don't want a puddle in you winador.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. You are doing an excellent job storing your beloved cigars.

***Diclaimer***I have no experience and am not educated in this matter so all this could have just wasted your time.

 

[knw247]

I was lol just reiterate a few points. If your seeing these wild swings in Th when your unit turns on.... Something is wrong. Your experience is unique. Either the unit is pulling air in from outside while the unit is running or the hydrometer itself is over reacting to the air flow. These unites do not cool that fast. We th that said as long as it is recovering like you indicate... It's not a problem. It takes days of increased RH before your sticks respond and stabilize. If your really concerned toss a small Boveda pack in each box. Thes will help keep the sticks stabilizes inside each closed box. It's not necessary but it is peace of mind.

Finally if your unit is pulling in air from outside you will find yourself needing recharge your media at a faster intervals. Good luck

 

[herfdog]

My unit would cool super fast, up to making condensation, if I let it be. It was trying to reach 55 degrees F at the most. I tweaked the sensor do it stops at 70. Even then, when there is super high temp outside (think 90+degF) the fan runs enough to create condensation.
Slowing the fans just made it worst, as it would cool more for the same effect, and get more condensation.

When condensation occurs, if no drain hole, RH would raise. Sometimes the drain hole wasn't enough last summer and I still had accumulation at the bottom. That's why I suggest to not plug the drain hole.

Condensation forms on the fins of the heatsink when it gets too cold...


My unit is a king Kong of wino, having a thermoelectric so strong there's a water-cooled system on it. No jokes. And, unless there's condensation, I never noticed RH swings no matter the temp since I tweaked it to 70F. If yours us doing that, it's likely thing to get too cold, like in the high 50s. I'd put a thermometer and monitor mins and maxs.

 

[Pailong]

My unit does indeed cool quite fast - I have my temperature set to 16c and as soon as the sensor is reading 15 or 17c, the unit fan turns on and starts to work to cool the wineador down, thus my humidity drops. But I think I am worrying too much about nothing, as my beads and boveda packs help recover the RH quickly (or at least keep it stabilised and maybe the hygrometer is just reading the cool air moving around) - again, I'm not sure if the unit is sucking air out or pulling air in from the outside to cool it but humidity definitely does drop slightly, that's why there is a drain hole and tiny amount of condensation - the water is coming from the moisture in the air and condensing on the cooling plate, thus humidity is definitely being taken away somehow.

But like you guys said, I'm probably over worrying as it recovers almost instantly. Thanks!

 

[Bruce T.]

When condensation occurs, if no drain hole, RH would raise. Sometimes the drain hole wasn't enough last summer and I still had accumulation at the bottom. That's why I suggest to not plug the drain hole.

What I can't figure out is, if moisture condenses out and then leaves via the drain hole, then moisture has been removed from the environment and the total RH must be less. Every time moisture is removed from the winador then it would affect the cigars unless the beads, KL or Boveda are putting it back in. That's why it made sense to me to plug the drain and make a closed system so the moisture that condenses would eventually go back into the air.

 

[herfdog]

What I can't figure out is, if moisture condenses out and then leaves via the drain hole, then moisture has been removed from the environment and the total RH must be less. Every time moisture is removed from the winador then it would affect the cigars unless the beads, KL or Boveda are putting it back in. That's why it made sense to me to plug the drain and make a closed system so the moisture that condenses would eventually go back into the air.

That makes a lot of sense. My memory might be off, but I am certain that when condensation occurred, RH did vary greatly, we're talking an easy 10%

Bottom line: don't let your system go into condensation, no matter how.

 

[BenS]

How are you measuring rh and temp?

 

[herfdog]

With hygrometers and thermometers...?