Wino Humidity Observation

[marshall9779]

Many have commented about how the RH drops when there wino cooling unit turns on. While part of this may be due to the cooler air I believe there is another reason.
I have a Newair CC100. It had not been plugged in as I keep it in my basement. It was reading 65% up top and 66-67% on the bottom. I plugged the unit in yesterday as temps in the basement was getting up to 68. I plugged in and set to 70. Now the CC models from Newair, the circulation fan runs constantly at a low speed. Within a couple minutes my hygrometers both dropped a point. The cooling unit itself was not on as it was below the set point. I believe that the moving air has an affect on the RH reading of hygrometers.
Most digital hygrometers work by having a material that absorbs some moisture and as current is passed through it changes the amount of voltage based on the moisture content therefore changing the RH reading. I believe the moving air has an evaporative effect on that material reducing the moisture content and lowering the RH reading. The moisture content of the air itself hasn't changed though.
This morning the top hygrometer that by the way its mounted would probably see the most air movement was down a total of 2 points from where it was before. So depending on the amount of airflow and the orientation of the hygrometer I think a 1-2% drop just from having the fan moving air is typical. Anything more than that if the cooling unit was on could be attributed to that. I may have to test that and see if there is an additional drop when the cooling unit is on.

 

[keithww]

Would it be possible to place a hygrometer in a cheap disposable food storage container with some holes cut in it, to restrict the air flow, but allow some movement and place the other hygrometer next to it to see it they read off by 1 or 2%?

 

[Mossome]

Or maybe it might be possible to not stress out over a percentage or two of humidity. I've got boveda packs in my wino. I trust them. I trust the seal on my door. I sleep like a baby at night.

 

[marshall9779]

The hygro on the bottom is mounted on the front of a tray and is right up against the glass so prob not as much air movement as the one up top that is a through mount in the drawer so it sees the air flow inside the drawer. I'm not stressing, I'm just trying to understand what is going on. I'm using Boveda's as well and they were reading spot on before I pugged the unit in and got the air moving.

 

[Riyadh Habanos]

First post
I have also noticed this with 4 hygrometers in my Whynter 120s and expect the same for my new Newair CC300.
It does drop by 2-3pts when fan is on and cooler off, The only difference when the cooler kicks in, is condensation start to play havoc
with humidity anywhere from 2-6pts.

I have tried placing my Whynter on a timer, that has failed miserably for me, it just won't get the temperature right
nor humidity and there is just too much variations/variables of things to go wrong with the timer so I stopped using it.

What has worked for my small Whynter 120s is this temperature controller by Inkbird
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011296704/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
My settings are set to turn on if and when temp reach 70F, unit will be on to reach 67F and shut down completely (Delay of 3F).
This unit has a feature for (Compressor Delay) I set it to 10 Minutes to avoid consistent on and off scenario and possibly damage the board.
I have 2 circulation fans at the bottom to assist air flow set to 15 seconds every 15 minutes.

As far as I am concerned this has worked great for me with only a drop of 2-3pts max when the unit is on
and these 2-3pts seem to get to 1-2pts as I leave the door closed for a day or two.

I don't know if this method will work for my new Newair CC-300 (This unit reach 74F) so the cooling feature is more manageable
than the 66F for the Whynter 120s. But still the circulation fan issue will still exist.

I would also like more clear explanation if it exist or possible solution.
So far this what has worked for me.

Edit: My custom circulation fans on a timer are not missing up internal humidity like the circulation
fan of the unit itself does!!!

 

[marshall9779]

Not really concerned about the temp. If I just put my unit on a timer and the unit turns on and off, it will reset to the factory temp setting of 64 and try to cool every time it turns back on. I don't see the need to added separate circulation fans as I only have a 1-2 percent diff top to bottom. Probably just going to note that I will have a 2 point difference on the top to what the actual RH is when I have it plugged in.

 

[herfdog]

I have 2 fans running in my wino all the time, cooling or not. Makes for better RH dispersion (I was getting a good 5% difference top to bottom.....)

Well, my RH has been stable for the last year. Even when the cooling started.

You just need enough humidification in there and you're all set.

Once your setup is well tuned, dont stress about it.

 

[Riyadh Habanos]

That why you need internal temperature monitor to manage the unit like I did.
regardless of what the unit turns on too. mine also turns on to 64F.

What if it is cold inside the house, and the timer keeps kicking in? eventually it will thru-off the humidity,
and/or you will come back to a find a nice pool of water. (I almost had a heart attack on the sight).
just a though

 

[Riyadh Habanos]

I have 2 fans running in my wino all the time, cooling or not. Makes for better RH dispersion (I was getting a good 5% difference top to bottom.....)

Well, my RH has been stable for the last year. Even when the cooling started.

You just need enough humidification in there and you're all set.

Once your setup is well tuned, dont stress about it.

I agree, I will add more HF %65 eventually, but I will be doing this and comfortable with it because I have
internal temperature control. Adding more humidity with a timer or always on status has proven disastrous for me.

 

[marshall9779]

It's not the Humidification. It was steady at 65. It can't drop below that cuz my basement is right at 65 as well. I literally measured right before plugging the unit in.


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[herfdog]

It's not the Humidification. It was steady at 65. It can't drop below that cuz my basement is right at 65 as well. I literally measured right before plugging the unit in.


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Is your basement at the same temperature as your wino while the cooling system cools down the wino?

If the answer is no then your statement doesnt hold.

If the temps are different, then RH will vary. That is how RH works.

If cooling pulls RH down, then you need more control on your humidity.

My conclusion is that you need more humidification.

And by my observations of tweaking my own wino, it works.

So, yeah. Don't trust me if you don't want to, give it a try and see.

 

[marshall9779]

Cooling is not running as it is set above the basement temp. The fan just circulates air until the cooking kicks in. Temp has remained the same according to my hygros.


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[Jesse]

If your basement is at 68*, then why even plug in the cooler? If it's just for the fans, then just get some cheap computer fans and wire them up on there own. When the cooler is plugged in it still will let off cold air to maintain it's inside temp, it's not like a condenser that turns off and on. The peltier is always cooling and the fan is what moves that cold air around.

 

[Riyadh Habanos]

It sounds like he has a leak on the rubber seal if he can't keep RH near where he wants
or he drilled for exterior cabling and did not seal it well.
This is the only reason I can think of if he's wineador is turned off as stated and has enough humidification.

Always check the rubber seal, Use hear drier on the seal evenly or little Vaseline (very little).

 

[marshall9779]

I just plugged it in, in case the temp came up another couple degrees. The CC models fan runs all the time even when the unit isn't cooling. It was holding and maintaining RH fine before plugging in and the fan running. I can tell when the unit is cooling if I turn down the the temp as here is a noticeable difference in sound. I did have a leak in the seal but I have a piece of weather stripping along the outside of the seal to fix and has been holding RH rock solid.
Unplugged the unit again and RH reading came back up not long after.


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[marshall9779]

Just posting an observation that makes sense to me. Take it as you will.


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[Bruce T.]

This topic keeps coming up in different formats. The effects of temperature changes on RH is very difficult to get our head around. The attached chart is interesting. It shows the effects of temperature change on a "closed" environment, meaning there is no new moisture added or removed by media.

 

[Riyadh Habanos]

This topic keeps coming up in different formats. The effects of temperature changes on RH is very difficult to get our head around. The attached chart is interesting. It shows the effects of temperature change on a "closed" environment, meaning there is no new moisture added or removed by media.

View attachment 83112

Nice chart however is this chart showing condensation points for every temperature?
I have my Wineador set to 67F and 65%RH.
According to your chart 67F = 78%RH where is that 13pts of RH went?
1- is it condensing on the cool side of the unit each time it turns on?
2- or is it leaking from the drain hole that I have not plugged?

No way I am plugging that drain hole in a tight plastic space full of second hand chinese liqueur paint over the plastic

 

[Bruce T.]

Nice chart however is this chart showing condensation points for every temperature?
I have my Wineador set to 67F and 65%RH.
According to your chart 67F = 78%RH where is that 13pts of RH went?
1- is it condensing on the cool side of the unit each time it turns on?
2- or is it leaking from the drain hole that I have not plugged?

No way I am plugging that drain hole in a tight plastic space full of second hand chinese liqueur paint over the plastic

As I understand it, the chart shows that if in a closed environment (no drain hole, no Boveda) you set the RH to 70% at 70 F and then you change the temperature, the RH would also change. Let's say the temperature dropped to 65 F. Then the RH would read 83% but the actual moisture in the cigars would not change because no moisture was removed or added. Of course if you have media such as Boveda packs then moisture will be added or removed.

Here is another chart that shows the same thing in a different way. It shows what readings you should have to end up with the same amount of moisture in your cigars. Assuming that the moisture in the cigar is what affects its smoking characteristics, then a cigar stored at 70F and 70% will smoke the same as a cigar stored at 68F and 75%. Your humi at 67F and 65% is not on these charts but if you are happy with the smoke then that is all that matters.

I'd love to get other people's opinion on these charts. This is how I understand them but I could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time).

 

[Erock33]

I have the opposite, Rh keeps going up to 72-73 and Temp is at 68 deg. I have two lrge Bovida packs 320mg. 69 RH inside my newair cc100. Any odea what could be happening?