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For what it's worth... went back to the drawing board.

Jim D

Jim D

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Gdaddy said:
Here's my story...

My last purchase for both WLT and LO came in and I rolled up a few sticks. Waited a few weeks and... they SUCKED. One puff and I'd throw it in the storm drain. Unsmokable. Almost threw it all away. The worst ever.

What the heck? Jorge's tobacco had an amazing, delicious raisin odor that I absolutely loved but when it was smoked that flavor did NOT convey to the cigar smoke. Not so good.

With my last purchase being SOOO incredibly bad I stopped rolling. No need to produce such crap. The worst cigars ever. Really.

I began to wonder... was it me? Maybe I have a sinus infection or an even more serious condition that was affecting my palate. All of a sudden I was no longer smoking cigars. My wife even became concerned. So the most reasonable thing to do was go to Corona cigar and bought a nice 1964 Anniversary Padron. Sat down with a brandy and smoked it. Ahaaa, there's my old friend. Tasted fantastic.

Why then, have my cigars turned so acrid and horrible tasting? I walked away and stopped rolling.

A turning point...
Just recently, while visiting a friend, he invited me in and said..." stick your nose in my humidor and take a whiff. Isn't that ammonia odor fantastic?"
NO, it's terrible I replied. He said..."I thought ammonia was a good thing?" The fermentation process should have been over but it obviously wasn't and these were top name cigars!

It was interesting to find his commercial cigars had that much ammonia being released. It got me thinking.

As everyone knows, when new cigars are rolled the binder and the wrapper especially have added moisture to them. The filler also needs to have some moisture also. When the tobacco gets wound tightly in a cigar that moisture gets trapped inside and needs to 'Rest' for the moisture to slowly evaporate. However, it can cause a slight amount of fermentation to begin deep inside the cigar. The ammonia created slowly works it's way out over time. It's what's known as the cigars "sick period". It is recommended to open the humidor and allow fresh air into the humidor to help flush out the ammonia. It can take many months or years depending on moisture level.

I had thought that 2 months of drying/resting was enough but have since discovered that longer times may be needed. I thought it was just crappy, inferior quality tobacco but I was wrong.

My conclusion...

This is the secret I've mentioned before but now have even more evidence to support it.

Of what I've read the aging process is caused by ONE thing, OXIDATION. The fermentation process involves Oxidative enzymes that remove objectionable elements in tobacco and release ammonia in the process. The oxidation process may, no doubt, be brought about in different ways or at least at markedly different rates, depending upon the environmental conditions but oxidation is the key to unlock.

Every other day I would remove all internal gasses from the cigar by way of a vacuum chamber. Took about 30 seconds in a small jar. It would suck out everything and then replenish the cigar with fresh 70% rh air. Oxygen. In about three weeks when you stuck your nose in the jar it took on a pleasant grassy/ tobacco odor. (No raisin smell.) The tobacco smelled different and the cigars had transformed to a completely delightful smoke.

Here's where I was flabbergasted... I ran a blind taste test. Using two friends to evaluate I gave the same drinks to neutralize the palate and smoked ONE cigar a night for two nights in a row. First night one man was given a Padron 1964 maduro (label was removed) the other fellow was given my cigar. The next night I reversed it. In the end both smokers prefered my cigar and neither picked the Padron!!! I also smoked along with them and felt the same way. I couldn't believe it.

These cigars went from the worst, crappiest, acrid, unsmokable cigars to an absolute delight just by giving it oxygen and removing the internal gasses. This can be done by letting it sit passively (sometimes for many, many months or years) and s l o w l y letting the acrid gasses naturally escape or, as I found, you can accelerate the process and remove every bit of acrid gas and replenish with fresh oxygen by using a vacuum chamber. It gets new oxygen deep down in every cell of the tobacco and flushes out the bad stuff.

IMHO.. people starting out should worry less about rolling a pretty cigar and concentrate more on what improves the flavor but for many people it's all about the look. For example, spending $100 on a vacuum pump will do much more to help oxygenate the tobacco yet many people see a tuck cutter on the pros rolling table and will readily spend $225 to try to improve the appearance.



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Fantastic idea for getting through the sick period, thanks for sharing it.
Can I pester you for a little more info? What's the recipe from the blend you compared to the Padrons? I'm wondering if I have the leaf to roll some of those....:cigar:
 
TheFlask

TheFlask

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ras_oscar said:
interesting idea. Any info on how much vacuum would implode the glass jar?
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I'm sure if there is a flaw in the jar there would be a slim possibility but I doubt it. -30lb is considered to be a true vacuum. That's not much pressure. And if there is the tiniest hole in the system, in this case a jar, you won't be able to pull nor hold that pressure.
 
Gdaddy

Gdaddy

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jvd1230 said:
what if after vacuuming the jar you pumped in straight oxygen?
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Since aging is an oxygenation process, cigars sealed in pure oxygen may accelerate this action. An interesting thought.

My reasoning was to remove moisture from the deepest inside of the cigar and refill it with low humidity air for drying acceleration (shorten the rest period)
 
Jim D

Jim D

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jvd1230 said:
what if after vacuuming the jar you pumped in straight oxygen?
Click to expand...
I assume you'd let them air out or sit in a humidor prior to lighting one that was saturated with pure oxygen, right? They'd probably burn pretty fast otherwise...
 
Dominican56

Dominican56

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I can remove moisture using a microwave and the refrigerator.
Heat the gar, blow out the steam. A couple of rounds of that then into the freezer or refrigerator it goes until it's cool. Refrigerated air is dry in relative terms.
One can make then as crispy as one likes, if one likes a crispy cigar. :D
Gdaddy said:
Since aging is an oxygenation process, cigars sealed in pure oxygen may accelerate this action. An interesting thought.

My reasoning was to remove moisture from the deepest inside of the cigar and refill it with low humidity air for drying acceleration (shorten the rest period)
Click to expand...
Why do you think aging is an oxygenated process, not a molecular diffusion process?
 
Gdaddy

Gdaddy

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Dominican56 said:
I can remove moisture using a microwave and the refrigerator.
Heat the gar, blow out the steam. A couple of rounds of that then into the freezer or refrigerator it goes until it's cool. Refrigerated air is dry in relative terms.
One can make then as crispy as one likes, if one likes a crispy cigar. :D

Why do you think aging is an oxygenated process, not a molecular diffusion process?
Click to expand...
Oxygen is highly corrosive. Causes things to rust. It should have some reactive influence on the tobacco.
 
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