Thanks, yea i did watch @webmost rolling one of his upperwock's, he had a neat way of rolling the point, i dont have a mold for a torpedo, im going to give a few a try and just put then in my regular mold and keep away from the head, i do have a perfecto mold but thats not what im aiming for.If you don't have a mold, leave some out of the shoulder/head and, if the case is high enough, it could be brought together with the binder or, wrapper if you don't want to mess with paper molding. it will firm up when dried. Do it to the foot and you have a Salomone.