creating a smooth blend

[ras_oscar]

I have noticed that some of my blends have a harshness to them in the back of the throat, others are soft and smooth. I'm not taking about vitamin N, I have a reasonable tolerance to that. Is the harshness caused strictly by immature leaf that is still outgassing ammonia and creating the harshness? Is it caused by Ligero in the blend? Should I just set the leaf aside for a defined period of time? Reduce ligero content? something else?

FYI, my standard recipe is 1 leaf each of Ligero, Visio and Seco.

 

[Marc L]

Kind of all the above. That's the art of blending. developing the sense of prep to the leaf. blend ratios will also play the role and, FYI you don't have to use whole leaves.

 

[Dominican56]

Depends on the leaf you used and the age of the cigar.
Olor, Honduran and some Nicaraguan leaf has that profile for me.

 

[Dominican56]

I am strongly opposed to Leaf they “hits” the back of my throat.

It’s a personal preference thing.

 

[Dominican56]

As an example for me anyway, the only Honduran leaf I like is the ligero. I’ve not found any of the olor that does not do that.

Lots of Nicaraguan leaf isn’t to my liking, but some Nicaraguan leaf is pretty good For me that is.

 

[Jim D]

The crazy thing is after blending leaves and letting them sit, they will act differently with some rest. For example, I pulled a stick out that was just over a year old and it was suprisingly smooth. I still have the same leaves available so made another run of those and they,are not smooth right off the table even though the leaves have all been in their bags over a year, just like the stick was. Now the new ones are sitting in the bottom of the humidor slumbering into future smoothness.
There is another method people use to smooth out that roughness too. Look up mojo, there are threads here about this including recipes and anecdotal results.

 

[Dominican56]

The crazy thing is after blending leaves and letting them sit, they will act differently with some rest. For example, I pulled a stick out that was just over a year old and it was suprisingly smooth. I still have the same leaves available so made another run of those and they,are not smooth right off the table even though the leaves have all been in their bags over a year, just like the stick was. Now the new ones are sitting in the bottom of the humidor slumbering into future smoothness.
There is another method people use to smooth out that roughness too. Look up mojo, there are threads here about this including recipes and anecdotal results.

You are right about aging a cigar for smoothness.

I’m dubious about the mojo thing tho. I suppose because I haven’t had success with it yet.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

If you make and use your mojo right it will absolutely soften the rough edges on harsh leaf.

 

[Dominican56]

Hooligan, lots of folks use it. Actually I’ve only tried to make mojo once but it was a moldy mess.
I’ll try it again sometime
I’ve got Honduran viso that is awful for my tastes. If I could soften that I’d be happy

 

[Gdaddy]

You are right about aging a cigar for smoothness.

I’m dubious about the mojo thing tho. I suppose because I haven’t had success with it yet.

The bitter taste is what I detest the most and if it starts out bitter it usually remains bitter no matter how long it's aged. This problem should be addressed but it's not. The focus of the cigar in this forum seems to be solely on the appearance. There is little to no effort/research/experimentation to smooth out the problem. (pun intended)

It's not that hard to roll a decent looking, good burning stick. Then, when it tastes bad, everyone thinks it's the fault of the "blend" of tobacco. Need to figure out the "blend", buy more tobacco but... Oh, but how they look so pretty! (Most taste like crap.)

This is a backwards approach. This whole cigar rolling thing is NOT about how good the cigar looks. It's ALL about flavor and smoking enjoyment and that should be the main focal point of this whole deal. The Mojo IS the secret to a good cigar. All the big companies do it. They do it in Cuba. I have posted videos of them spraying tobacco in Cuba. Drew Estate is probably the king of mojo. Rocky Patel 'java' is made by them. Some are flavored a little and some a lot. I have periodicals dating back to the 1800's with recipes used by cigar makers of old.

It's more than just opening a couple of bags and putting together a so called 'blend' of stock, untreated leaves. If it was that easy anyone could roll a Padron in little time.

Mojo, known as 'Petuning' is the big secret used in the industry to smooth out the tobacco. Just look at the mojo, or casing, that is used extensively in the pipe tobacco trade. Big flavor changes there using stock tobacco! This IS the main focus in the tobacco trade and has been for 100's of years!

The bad news is... a dog rocket aged for 3 years is still a dog rocket. Time will NOT turn a bunch of 'stock' leaves into anything great. Maybe slightly improved at best.

I would encourage all non-believers of petuning to do one simple experiment. Take the harsh/bitter cigar that you have many of, and simply add a few drops of vanilla extract directly into the foot of the cigar. Let it dry out for a few days and taste the difference of the first 1/2" of the cigar. I have a turkey baster, looks like a large hypodermic needle, to inject even deeper. This is a last ditch effort BUT I've had some amazingly good results.

The proper way to add these sauces is before rolling by misting the leaves with a solution, let them rest in a bag a few day to absorb the solution and then dry them to proper case for rolling. Now you'll have some smoothing tobacco to really 'blend' to your liking. Done properly, you shouldn't detect an aroma but rather a welcome smoothness. It will act like putting sugar in a bitter cup of coffee. Smooths it out. The 'blending' comes from learning how much is too much. However, I do suggest taking it too far and then back it up to your liking by blending tobaccos together.

Petuning...it really is the secret. I hope this helps!

 

[Gdaddy]

Hooligan, lots of folks use it. Actually I’ve only tried to make mojo once but it was a moldy mess.
I’ll try it again sometime
I’ve got Honduran viso that is awful for my tastes. If I could soften that I’d be happy

Please don't take offense but... you did it wrong.

The mold occured because it was too moist/wet. The water acts as a vehicle to lay on the flavor. Don't use any water!

Try this on some of the Honduran. Take a small fine spray mister (2 oz.)

In that bottle mix a full 1 oz bottle of vanilla extract and then fill the other oz with vodka. NO WATER. This will not get moldy even if you let it sit for weeks and alcohol drys out a lot faster.

Spray down some leaves and place them in a sealed plastic bag for at least 3 days. After 3 days take them out and let them dry to proper case for rolling.

The vanilla will be the only simple smoothing flavor when mixed with vodka. Letting it sit will loose the aroma of vanilla so it should be pretty much undetected.

If you want a sweeter experiment... same 1 oz vanilla and add Jim Beam Bourbon honey in place of the vodka. The alcohol will prevent mold.

The sweetest I've tried is 1oz vanilla with Jim Beam 'maple'. Used in a puro it was like smoking pancakes. Don't laugh!! It was a lot more pleasant than the dog turd crap taste it had before!

Any of these can be 'blended' with untreated tobacco to suit your taste.

This is a really easy and foolproof method. The vanilla is an excellent smoothing agent.

 

[Jim D]

So many experiments, so little time!

 

[Dominican56]

Please don't take offense but... you did it wrong.

The mold occured because it was too moist/wet. The water acts as a vehicle to lay on the flavor. Don't use any water!

Try this on some of the Honduran. Take a small fine spray mister (2 oz.)

In that bottle mix a full 1 oz bottle of vanilla extract and then fill the other oz with vodka. NO WATER. This will not get moldy even if you let it sit for weeks and alcohol drys out a lot faster.

Spray down some leaves and place them in a sealed plastic bag for at least 3 days. After 3 days take them out and let them dry to proper case for rolling.

The vanilla will be the only simple smoothing flavor when mixed with vodka. Letting it sit will loose the aroma of vanilla so it should be pretty much undetected.

If you want a sweeter experiment... same 1 oz vanilla and add Jim Beam Bourbon honey in place of the vodka. The alcohol will prevent mold.

The sweetest I've tried is 1oz vanilla with Jim Beam 'maple'. Used in a puro it was like smoking pancakes. Don't laugh!! It was a lot more pleasant than the dog turd crap taste it had before!

Any of these can be 'blended' with untreated tobacco to suit your taste.

This is a really easy and foolproof method. The vanilla is an excellent smoothing agent.

No offense taken. The smart Alec in me wants to say “no shit” on doing the mojo wrong. . It was a disaster. There are pictures in the mojo thread

I’ll try your trick on some of the leaf I don’t like.

To your point about blending verses aesthetics, flavor is my goal. Most of my cigars are pretty rustic as compared to the well rolled ones.

Perhaps blending is such a personal thing so it’s not discussed so much. I’ve seen some blends posted here that I’d toss as a yard gar but as long as the roller likes it, it’s ok with me.

My blending goal is to make a full body complex, flavor changing as it burns, cigar.
Which is why I don’t usually bunch the entubado method. I stack the leaf in such a way that different parts of the leaf are experienced as the stick burns.

Some leaf I’ll never like and without mojo, I’ll never use it. (See, I’m not ruling out using mojo).

 

[Gdaddy]

So many experiments, so little time!

The funny thing is, these experiments take very little time. I can spray down enough leaf for 10 cigars in a matter of minutes.

I don't even think about rolling/construction anymore. All my current enjoyment comes from developing new recipes.

 

[Gdaddy]

No offense taken. The smart Alec in me wants to say “no shit” on doing the mojo wrong. . It was a disaster. There are pictures in the mojo thread

I’ll try your trick on some of the leaf I don’t like.

To your point about blending verses aesthetics, flavor is my goal. Most of my cigars are pretty rustic as compared to the well rolled ones.

Perhaps blending is such a personal thing so it’s not discussed so much. I’ve seen some blends posted here that I’d toss as a yard gar but as long as the roller likes it, it’s ok with me.

My blending goal is to make a full body complex, flavor changing as it burns, cigar.
Which is why I don’t usually bunch the entubado method. I stack the leaf in such a way that different parts of the leaf are experienced as the stick burns.

Some leaf I’ll never like and without mojo, I’ll never use it. (See, I’m not ruling out using mojo).

Lol... that's exactly the response I had in mind!

I think the concept of rolling your own cigars is too simple in it's basic form. That is... buy some tobacco, get all the tools, learn to roll and start rolling great cigars for super cheap. Nope. The missing link is thinking you can make great, rich tasting cigars just by pulling leaf from a bag and you can't. I've seen the question asked many times..." what blend of tobacco do I buy to make a Padron?" Do they really think it's that simple???

 

[Dominican56]

Lol... that's exactly the response I had in mind!

I think the concept of rolling your own cigars is too simple in it's basic form. That is... buy some tobacco, get all the tools, learn to roll and start rolling great cigars for super cheap. Nope. The missing link is thinking you can make great, rich tasting cigars just by pulling leaf from a bag and you can't. I've seen the question asked many times..." what blend of tobacco do I buy to make a Padron?" Do they really think it's that simple???

Ha! Only Padron can make a Padron. Only Oliva can make a serie V, only Drew Estate can make a Liga 9. They own the farm, the processing.


We have limited leaf variety. But one can indeed make a premium cigar with what’s available. Home rolls are as different as a Liga 9 is from a Padron 64 and do on.

It takes patience and thought to develop a blend that is good. I’ve tossed more than I’ve kept trying to find what I like. I’ve only got a few blends I like after trying many.

Even so the chase is fun.

 

[Dominican56]

Another thing, tastes evolve. Cigars I liked 3-4 years ago aren’t the ones I like today, with a few exceptions that is

When I first started with cigars I tried a Padron 64. I tossed it. Now they are pretty dang good.

Connecticut wrapped cigars, to me, are awful.

Leaf that hits the back of my throat are, to me, pretty awful.

I see blends posted here using Honduran viso and olor, double, triple ligero, to me they are yard gars. But some people like them. I’m sure the blends I like would be awful to them.

 

[Jan Bynens]

Well, each his own... but I'm sure I can make fine cigars without mojo, vanilla or salpeter !

 

[Dominican56]

Well, each his own... but I'm sure I can make fine cigars without mojo, vanilla or salpeter !

If you like ‘em that’s all that counts.
The more you roll the more developed your pallet becomes.

I’ll bet ten bucks the blends you make next year will be more refined and more to your liking of the day.
It’s progress. .

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Well, each his own... but I'm sure I can make fine cigars without mojo, vanilla or salpeter !

I make plenty of fine cigars without mojo, but as a home roller sometimes we are subject to using leaf that has a harshness that won't go away without the use of mojo. If you have a leaf that isn't performing to your standard on its own a little mojo to get it up to standard is better than tossing it out.