Thermoelectric wineador RH issues

[edhunter]

Hello bsotl!

Im having some trouble with my wineador and i thought i would post here in hopes someoen might give some pointers..

So i recently bought a small wine fridge since there is no one selling ready wineadors locally. I made sure it was a thermoelectric unit.

Temperatures where i live climb up to 40-45 celsius in summer hence why i needed the unit.

I started with just throwing in my tupperdors and my cuddy which had their own 69% and one of them 72% bovedas inside. I quickly filled the unit all the way to the top and there was limited space for air to circulate inside. I was reading temperatures and RH throughout the procedure and i found that when everything settles, the front of the tupperdors was at 67%-69% and 69%-71% for the one with the 72% bovedas and at 18-20 celsius. The shock came when i decided to check the back of the tupperdors which was close to the fan. The RH was at 84%-87% and temp was at 15-16 degrees celsius!! The fan was blowing directly on the back of the tupperdors and had no place to circulate hence i think that was the issue.

I decided then to just throw the sticks in the unit with bovedas. Side note, im trying to find someone to make some customised cedar shelves and a drawer too.



I added 7 in total 72% Bovedas scattered in the unit, added my cigars and the readings are allover the place. See picture attached, top shelve is the worst with lowest RH, middle shelve where the fan hits i get 56-60something and i have a boveda butler too in there which is reading at 63% and the bottom is very low too. I placed a hygrometer at the very back on the bottom and that is the only one reading 67%..

What should i do? Is it a capacity issue and i need to buy more boveda? Buy beads? Im not sure but the cigar oasis might not even fit in there so i did not consider it yet.

Is there something i can too temporarily until i find a solution?

Thank you!

 

[Boudie]

Not sure what kind of time span you are talking about but:

Using the tupperdors did nothing to "season" the unit. When we use cedar shelves they act as humidity sinks helping to stabilize the humidity levels in your unit, plastic doesn't do that for you.

You removed the tupperdors and went with wrapped cigars which will act -kind of sorta- as a humidity stabilizer but very slowly.

So

My advice would be to start over, stabilizing and seasoning the unit. Track down a bunch of cedar, old cigar boxes come to mind and fill your unit with them. Wipe them down with distilled water and give the unit time to stabilize. Once your humidity levels are close to where you want them then put your cigars in the boxes.

Good luck, let us know how it works out.

 

[edhunter]

Not sure what kind of time span you are talking about but:

Using the tupperdors did nothing to "season" the unit. When we use cedar shelves they act as humidity sinks helping to stabilize the humidity levels in your unit, plastic doesn't do that for you.

You removed the tupperdors and went with wrapped cigars which will act -kind of sorta- as a humidity stabilizer but very slowly.

So

My advice would be to start over, stabilizing and seasoning the unit. Track down a bunch of cedar, old cigar boxes come to mind and fill your unit with them. Wipe them down with distilled water and give the unit time to stabilize. Once your humidity levels are close to where you want them then put your cigars in the boxes.

Good luck, let us know how it works out.

Thank you for the reply first of all!!

I don't have cedar other than the strips you can see in the photos but i do have some Perdomo, Rocky patel and Padron boxes. I could chop those up, since they dont fit the unit and season them. How long does the seasoning take? Im going to go crazy watching the tupperdors go up to 35 degrees.

And what should the procedure be, should i wipe the cedar boxes with distilled water, add them to the unit, add the bovedas and wait? Or add the seasoned boxes wait for a couple of days and then add bovedas and then add the cigars?

Thanks again!

 

[Boudie]

If you have extra Bovedas you can go ahead and add a couple with the boxes, they may overcharge or dry out depending on what the boxes are doing. Just save a couple so you can use them when you are ready to add your cigars. Patience is important. Put the boxes in and let temp and humidity stabilize. Once stable add the Bovedas and let stabilize again. You are keeping your cigars in the proper environment humidity wise so they shouldn't throw things off when you add them to the wineador. This process will take several days maybe a week just depending. Just get your stability problems resolved first then add your cigars. I normally remove the cellophane at the foot to open the cigar to the environment while still protecting the wrapper on the body of the cigar.

 

[aaron72]

I would recommend that you start slow by adding some cigars and monitoring the humidity in the different areas. The fuller it gets, the less air flow you get and you'll see more distinct pockets like you were initially getting.

Couple of additional things:
Make sure the drain hole in the bottom back is sealed
These hold quite a seal and unless you really like your cigars wet, I wouldn't be using Boveda's higher than 69 and definitely not mixing percentages

 

[edhunter]

So i went ahead and removed everything, snapped some boxes up so that i can use them later as holders, wiped them with distilled water, wiped the boveda holder with distilled water and throwed everything in.



we started with ~70% and 4-5 hours later,now, its at 58-59 in the front and 60-64 in the back.. Is that normal? Shouldnt the RH stay at ~70+ for at least several hours? I added 2 boveda at the bottom as well.

 

[edhunter]

I would recommend that you start slow by adding some cigars and monitoring the humidity in the different areas. The fuller it gets, the less air flow you get and you'll see more distinct pockets like you were initially getting.

Couple of additional things:
Make sure the drain hole in the bottom back is sealed
These hold quite a seal and unless you really like your cigars wet, I wouldn't be using Boveda's higher than 69 and definitely not mixing percentages

Yes i never mix percentages. The drain hole you mention is the one inside the unit at the bottom back right? Why should i seal that?
And judging from the 72% bovedas not being able to get up to 65% in some areas, im mot sure that 69% would do any better of a job? Maybe im thinking it completely wrong.

 

[Boudie]

You missed part of my initial response patience, give it some time - days

 

[edhunter]

You missed part of my initial response patience, give it some time - days

i didn’t miss it! Just confirming that everything is normal! I guess i also never thought it would take that long to season any humidor. Guess it does!!

ill patiently wait then. Thanks!

 

[StogieNinja]

I think the larger issue is that you've got too much of a temperature differential between the inside and the outside of the wine cooler. That fan is blowing a lot of cold air to get the cooler down to the set temp. This is going to wreak havoc on your rh.

I would recommend you separate the humidity control from the temp control. In other words, put your cigars in an airtight storage container with a couple bovedas, and put that enclosed, sealed container in the wine fridge. You'll have solid rh inside the container, and the containers will be in a temp controlled environment.

 

[edhunter]

I think the larger issue is that you've got too much of a temperature differential between the inside and the outside of the wine cooler. That fan is blowing a lot of cold air to get the cooler down to the set temp. This is going to wreak havoc on your rh.

I would recommend you separate the humidity control from the temp control. In other words, put your cigars in an airtight storage container with a couple bovedas, and put that enclosed, sealed container in the wine fridge. You'll have solid rh inside the container, and the containers will be in a temp controlled environment.

I agree but if you check my first post, thats exactly what i did first. And the issue was worse because the tupperdors were blocking circulation and the back of them was getting hit with the cold air from the fan directly, which caused the back of the tupperdor to get down to 14 degrees and 85% humidity.

At least without the tupperdors there is circulation inside and while what you describe is and will be true, it wont be as bad? I guess? Im not an expert but thats what i understand. From the readings i am getting now that i removed the tupperdors and added some half boxes it seems that, yes, the air where the fan hits is colder and the RH is higher but only by 1-2 degrees and 4-5% RH difference whereas when the tupperdors where in, the difference in the back was -5-6 degrees and +20% RH...

 

[StogieNinja]

Sorry. Was on my phone and somehow missed that. Reading... who knew!

It's almost like you need some sort of shield to deflect the cold air and spread it around inside the cooler so that the cold air isn't just blowing on and chilling the tupperware, or just a larger space. That thermoelectric cooler I think is probably the same as what they put in larger 28 bottle wine coolers.

If you're going to combine rh and temp control like that, I think you'll find you have long-term problems with condensation and rH swings when the unit is running, especially when you're talking about the temp differentials you have.

 

[edhunter]

Sorry. Was on my phone and somehow missed that. Reading... who knew!

It's almost like you need some sort of shield to deflect the cold air and spread it around inside the cooler so that the cold air isn't just blowing on and chilling the tupperware, or just a larger space. That thermoelectric cooler I think is probably the same as what they put in larger 28 bottle wine coolers.

If you're going to combine rh and temp control like that, I think you'll find you have long-term problems with condensation and rH swings when the unit is running, especially when you're talking about the temp differentials you have.

That makes sense. I didn't know that when i was buying it, hell, i didn't know i would have more than 50 sticks when i was buying it either! I have hundreds of loose sticks and i might be needing a bigger one eventually anyway. Just no budget right now for another one.

I might try adding a couple fans inside.. But i have no idea how i'm going to give them power. And i guess they should not be spinning all the time. Something like the Cigar oasis might have worked in my case since i need circulation. Ill try to find alternatives since the oasis is quite expensive.. Any ideas?

 

[edhunter]

I would recommend that you start slow by adding some cigars and monitoring the humidity in the different areas. The fuller it gets, the less air flow you get and you'll see more distinct pockets like you were initially getting.

Couple of additional things:
Make sure the drain hole in the bottom back is sealed
These hold quite a seal and unless you really like your cigars wet, I wouldn't be using Boveda's higher than 69 and definitely not mixing percentages

You must have missed my reply, just wanted to know why i should block the drain hole? And by blocking you mean tape it over?

 

[edhunter]

So humidity and temperature stabilized after seasoning the boxes, there is still a big difference from shelve to shelve and i am suspecting circulation to be the issue here. I started adding cigars and bovedas in batches now and letting the rh stabilize after each batch. I have in total around 50+ cigars and 6 boveda 72%. The back of the unit is more humid while the front is not so much. I get readings of 55%-58% in the front and 62%-66% in the back except the top shelf. The top shelf is at 53%-55% front and back.

Im guessing im going to need some kind of a fan for circulation? Is there anything that i can easily power with batteries or a guide for a custom one out of laptop/pc fans maybe?

Oh, i also blocked/sealed the drain hole. I guessed that would help with RH and temp.

 

[JG358]

Some good info in this thread about controls and fan set up

stin187's "Smart" Wineador Build

I've seen a lot of wineador questions being asked recently so I figured I'd show the build I did for my second wineador. I'm pretty happy with this one but I'm always tweaking things. It has wireless hygros throughout and an internet connected temp and humidity monitor as well (I travel a...

www.botl.org

 

[BasicTek]

With my coolers I found that I needed to go with lower humidity boveda's, and the solution to the circulation problems ( caused more by me cram packing it to the max) were solved by adding more boveda's (probably around 20 now).


My cooler is filled to about 90% capacity at any given time, and while my hydrometers still indicate as much as 5% swing in humidity from top to bottom, my cigars are always properly humidified and smoking very consistent (with 3 -4 boveda's per shelf) The boveda's seem to always remain charged as well with that many.

My motto is humidity issues.... throw more boveda's at it.

.02

 

[edhunter]

Some good info in this thread about controls and fan set up

stin187's "Smart" Wineador Build

I've seen a lot of wineador questions being asked recently so I figured I'd show the build I did for my second wineador. I'm pretty happy with this one but I'm always tweaking things. It has wireless hygros throughout and an internet connected temp and humidity monitor as well (I travel a...

www.botl.org

WOW. Thanks for that. That is some good bed reading material for tonight!

 

[edhunter]

With my coolers I found that I needed to go with lower humidity boveda's, and the solution to the circulation problems ( caused more by me cram packing it to the max) were solved by adding more boveda's (probably around 20 now).


My cooler is filled to about 90% capacity at any given time, and while my hydrometers still indicate as much as 5% swing in humidity from top to bottom, my cigars are always properly humidified and smoking very consistent (with 3 -4 boveda's per shelf) The boveda's seem to always remain charged as well with that many.

My motto is humidity issues.... throw more boveda's at it.

.02

I suspected that. I am now at 12 boveda packs. My wineador is a small one, 8 bottle lean tall one. These are all i had, ill order another 5 and see if that makes a difference. I might even order 20x 69% packs and replace the 72% alltogether since if the issue is with the number of packs i currently have in there i wouldnt want to take rh up to the 72% that it should be. Only reason i kept throwing 72% packs in was that i couldnt get the rh to get to 69% and i thought that with higher % packs i would get more rh.

 

[BasicTek]

I suspected that. I am now at 12 boveda packs. My wineador is a small one, 8 bottle lean tall one. These are all i had, ill order another 5 and see if that makes a difference. I might even order 20x 69% packs and replace the 72% alltogether since if the issue is with the number of packs i currently have in there i wouldnt want to take rh up to the 72% that it should be. Only reason i kept throwing 72% packs in was that i couldnt get the rh to get to 69% and i thought that with higher % packs i would get more rh.

To note When I 1st started I bought 72% because I thought more humid cigars was better/safer. I have since stitched to 69% (which I still use in my old wood humi's) and 65% which I use in any air tight humi's including my wino's. 65% reduces the chances of mold and cigars at this humidification smoke really well. I have even dropped to 62% for CC's