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Possible answer to some humidity problems.

rick12string

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I’ve seen some threads and posts with people having humidity problems and this may be one possible answer.

Info discovered on some digital hygrometers.
I have a round Madelaine digital in a Boveda test kit as I’m writing this and have found out that when the temperature fluctuates between 67 and 68 degrees F, the humidity reading jumps 5% RH. At 68 degrees it reads 73% RH but when the temp drops to 67 degrees the RH reading jumps to 78%. If the temp goes up to 68 the RH drops right back to 73%. I found this previously with another digital hygro brand also. I got the exact same results. I stumbled across this by accident because I just happened to be looking at the readings right when it changed from 68 to 67 degrees. If the temp in the room hadn’t gotten that low or I did the test in the summer, I never would have caught this. I contacted the retailer of one of the hygros who in turn contacted the importer who contacted the manufacturer which you probably guessed is in China. It seems to be a problem with the chip and a lot of these digitals are made by the same manufacturer for different brands. From what I’ve been told, they are working on a new chip to eliminate this problem.

Point being;
When you check the calibration of your digital, be aware of the temp when checking the RH reading. If you’re at 67 degrees F or lower and the RH seems high, try just turning on a desk lamp above the test kit. You don’t need to put it real close to the kit. The radiant heat from the light shinning on it will raise the temp of the black hygro in a minute or two without heating up the bag rapidly which could effect the actual RH in the test kit (but not by that much if at all). If your temp is 68 or higher, put the kit in the frig for a minute or two to bring the temp down to 67 or below. Then take it out and watch it rise with the ambient temp, focusing on that 67-68 degree change. If the RH reading jumps you have an explanation for why your humidity jumps around in your humi if the ambient temp gets down around that range where you keep your humidor.
This is not however the case for all digitals. I found that the WD Cal III doesn’t have this problem and I’m sure others are probably fine as well.
Hope this helps some folks.
 

dpricenator

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Isn't that what Relative Humidity is? The humidity the air is able to sutain relative to the temperature? At colder temps air is able to hold less water. At 50 degrees, the air's maximum capability to hold water is less than a 70 degree environment. So even if you have a 70% RH in a 50 degree environment there are less grams of water per meter squared. Does this explain the problem you are having or did I go on about something different?
 

rick12string

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Isn't that what Relative Humidity is? The humidity the air is able to sutain relative to the temperature? At colder temps air is able to hold less water. At 50 degrees, the air's maximum capability to hold water is less than a 70 degree environment. So even if you have a 70% RH in a 50 degree environment there are less grams of water per meter squared. Does this explain the problem you are having or did I go on about something different?
You're correct but this is an electronics problem. If the temp reading is right on the edge between 67 and 68 and bounces back and forth the RH is not going to jump back and forth with it 5% in the bag. This is an instantaneous jump in the RH reading at the exact time the temp reading changes from 67-68. Not a gradual increase. They have already acknowledged the problem.
 

rick12string

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Just to clarify, it wasn’t Madelaine who acknowledged the problem. I just discovered the same problem with their hygro this morning. Also, I’m not saying it’s a problem with all their units. It’s possible that the problem was just a particular production run out of one factory or chip manufacturer (or it could be all of them). Don’t know; just have to wait and see.
 

Jwrussell

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OH no. I'm going to hope against hope you aren't going to post what I think you are going to post Daniyal...
 
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I don't know if that is what you were referring to but I guess it might be. I personally have never gone by that table but I did notice a variation between humidity during the day time when the temp is high and during the night when the temp is lower in my humidors. When I saw the chart above it made sense to me given my experience then again I'm no physicist in fact passing physics at all was a miracle so I really don't know how true it is.
 

dpricenator

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I was wondering if there was a chart like that. It won't help in Rick's case as that is a faulty Hygro. I will be using that chart though.
 
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This thread, and link, scare me...I've read it about ten times and am doing my best not to panic. I keep thinking I'm seeing something that says if my temp reading says 65 degrees, that my humidification reading should say 83% in order to ACTUALLY be 70%? I'm reading this wrong...right?
 
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This thread, and link, scare me...I've read it about ten times and am doing my best not to panic. I keep thinking I'm seeing something that says if my temp reading says 65 degrees, that my humidification reading should say 83% in order to ACTUALLY be 70%? I'm reading this wrong...right?
Dont get to worried when you see charts like that, read this

http://www.cigargroup.com/faq/#5.0a

Bottom line is

"The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature."

but I would argue they are better at 65%
 
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I was wondering if there was a chart like that. It won't help in Rick's case as that is a faulty Hygro. I will be using that chart though.
Make sure you read that link I posted and make an informed choice before following that chart.
 

Jwrussell

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LOL I bet he did...
Yeah. He did. I'm sorry Daniyal, but that damn link is about the worst thing to happen to cigar lovers ever.

DO NOT FOLLOW THAT DAMN CHART! That fricking thing is the bane of the cigar-owner's existence. Relative freaking humidity is relative freaking humdity. That chart explains why you might see some sudden jumps with changes in temperature, but given time and a good humidification media (Boveda, Beads, etc.) the RH will return to where it needs to be regardless of the humdity.
This damn chart is like a cockroach, it never dies!

Further, their seasoning instructions are horrible. There is no damn reason to wipe a humidor down.
 
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Thanks Tegu! I figured it couldn't be true (how could I have missed such an important piece of the storage puzzle...I would have read or heard about it before!?)...but wanted to see that confirmation from a brother or two here.

Back to your regularly schedule programming.
 

dpricenator

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Great link Tegu, I panicked a few months back when I had my Fridge ador in the garage. It was getting down to 40 degrees at night and at the temp there is much less water in the air. I have since moved it inside and am more than happy with the results.
 
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Yeah. He did. I'm sorry Daniyal, but that damn link is about the worst thing to happen to cigar lovers ever.

DO NOT FOLLOW THAT DAMN CHART! That fricking thing is the bane of the cigar-owner's existence. Relative freaking humidity is relative freaking humdity. That chart explains why you might see some sudden jumps with changes in temperature, but given time and a good humidification media (Boveda, Beads, etc.) the RH will return to where it needs to be regardless of the humdity.
This damn chart is like a cockroach, it never dies!

Further, their seasoning instructions are horrible. There is no damn reason to wipe a humidor down.
I don't know if that is what you were referring to but I guess it might be. I personally have never gone by that table but I did notice a variation between humidity during the day time when the temp is high and during the night when the temp is lower in my humidors. When I saw the chart above it made sense to me given my experience then again I'm no physicist in fact passing physics at all was a miracle so I really don't know how true it is.
I don't really follow it but it explains the natural variations I see in my humidor. I guess it is pretty misleading but in my case the fluctuation in humidity is natural.. the beads will be reading a steady 65% for a few days and then shoot up to 70 or something if the temperature goes down, they're fairly frequent so when I looked at that chart for the first time, the fluctuations fit in the range so I thought what a useful tool.

Under no circumstances would I try and increase the humidity because of that chart my humidity fluctuations are natural they occur as the temperature changes it was freaky the first time it happened and finding the chart probably kept me from pulling out my hair.
 

Jwrussell

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You nailed it Daniyal. It's good information so long as you understand the actual concept. It helps to explain why those shifts in RH happen. It's just unfortunate that they basically lead people to believe that they should be matching the RH with the temperature based on that chart.

Going by their charg, most uf us would have our RH reading 83%! We'd also probably be trying to tell people that all the fuzzy stuff on our cigars was plume. :stretchgr

No offense meant by my previous post, I just hate that damn chart.
 
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You nailed it Daniyal. It's good information so long as you understand the actual concept. It helps to explain why those shifts in RH happen. It's just unfortunate that they basically lead people to believe that they should be matching the RH with the temperature based on that chart.

Going by their charg, most uf us would have our RH reading 83%! We'd also probably be trying to tell people that all the fuzzy stuff on our cigars was plume. :stretchgr

No offense meant by my previous post, I just hate that damn chart.
None taken bro quite a few people share your sentiment on that chart but if you are having odd fluctuations in your humi that you can't explain the chart is for you.
 
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