Possible answer to some humidity problems.

[rick12string]

I don't really follow it but it explains the natural variations I see in my humidor. I guess it is pretty misleading but in my case the fluctuation in humidity is natural.. the beads will be reading a steady 65% for a few days and then shoot up to 70 or something if the temperature goes down,

Forget the chart. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If my humidor is at 65% RH and the temp is 68 degrees or slightly higher then the temp drops to 67 degrees or below, the DIGITAL READING not the RH in the box jumps to 70%. It is a problem with the chip in the hygrometer. This happens right at the 67-68 degree change. The RH reading jumps up or down at the exact moment the temp changes from 67 to 68 or 68 to 67. Read my 1st post. It happend in a Boveda test kit and the RH in the bag isn't going to jump 5% with a 1 degree temp variation.

 

[Jwrussell]

I gotcha Rick, two different conversations going on at once. Any specifics on which hygros this affects?

 

[Jwrussell]

Rick, so are you saying the RH reading is off if the temp is below 67-ish, period? Or does it gradually adjust back to normal or what? This is really strange. I'm going back to read your first post again...

 

[rick12string]

It's like flipping a switch. When it hits 67 degrees it adds 5% to the RH reading and that's it. It doesn't gradually come back down. At 68 degrees it will drop back that 5%.

 

[rick12string]

I was wondering if there was a chart like that. It won't help in Rick's case as that is a faulty Hygro. I will be using that chart though.

Dave, if you're going to be using that chart then just send me your sticks so I can smoke them instead of you destroying them.
If you like your smokes at 65% then that's the RH you have to shoot in your humidor. 65% RH is 65% RH no matter what temp it is. The lower the temp the harder is is for water vapor to stay suspended in the atmosphere so you have to compensate to maintain your 65% but if you crank it up to 80 or 90% then that's what the RH will be in your humidor and you smokes are gonna suck that up. Pop goes your wrappers!

 

[Greg]

DO NOT FOLLOW THAT DAMN CHART! That fricking thing is the bane of the cigar-owner's existence.

Dave, if you're going to be using that chart then just send me your sticks so I can smoke them instead of you destroying them.
If you like your smokes at 65% then that's the RH you have to shoot in your humidor. 65% RH is 65% RH no matter what temp it is.

Stay away from that blasted chart!! :nono:

 

[rick12string]

Dont get to worried when you see charts like that, read this

http://www.cigargroup.com/faq/#5.0a

Bottom line is

"The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature."

but I would argue they are better at 65%

Good link Tegu. Missed it as I was scrolling through. That's the point I was trying to make.

BTW. Dave, you can still send me your smokes if you want.:stretchgr

 

[dpricenator]

Good link Tegu. Missed it as I was scrolling through. That's the point I was trying to make.

BTW. Dave, you can still send me your smokes if you want.:stretchgr

The only ones I have that are worth sending are the ones you guys gave me. Soon enough, I'll be back on top and random bombing the A-Holes here, who keep blowing up my mail box.

 

[rick12string]

The only ones I have that are worth sending are the ones you guys gave me.

I hear ya. I've got the same problem. Besides if you sent those out, wouldn't that be re-gifting?

 

[N2Advnture]

Interesting...I have done tons of testing on the HygroSet IIs and never experience this phenomenon.

Try also doing a standard salt test to see if you get the same results. (This is what I have always done to calibrate)

According to a post RonC made once, Humidipak told him that the further you get away from 70 degrees the more inaccurate the Boveda packs become.

But I may be wrong in remembering that (Ron?)

What was the mfg that you talked to?

~M

 

[Jwrussell]

Mark, I can't speak for Rick, but I'm not talking about during calibration. I just calibrated all of my hygrosets within the past three weeks or so at room temp (70-75 degreres).

I experienced this when I got home today. I pulled one of they hygro's out of the wine cooler and it read 71% and 66 degrees. I watched it climb to 67 degrees at which point it read 69%. A few seconds later it hit 68 degrees and immediately it dropped to 64%. Doing it again while I type. 70% and 66 degrees....69%, 67 degrees........................................................................................................damn. 68 degrees and 64%, instantaneously.

I just swapped places with my other hygro (higher temp at the top of the winecooler so I'm waiting for it to drop below 68 degrees.
(OK, so I'm going to have to come back to this one, I can't sit around waiting for it to drop to 67 degrees, I've got to head out soon)...

Just pulled out my circular version, same thing. 67 degrees and 66%, as soon as it went to 68 degrees it jumped down to 61%.

 

[N2Advnture]

Thanks Jason,

I have contacted the MFG and will send along your info as well. I'll let you know asap what they say.

Thanks again,
Mark

 

[RonC]

Interesting...I have done tons of testing on the HygroSet IIs and never experience this phenomenon.

Try also doing a standard salt test to see if you get the same results. (This is what I have always done to calibrate)

According to a post RonC made once, Humidipak told him that the further you get away from 70 degrees the more inaccurate the Boveda packs become.

But I may be wrong in remembering that (Ron?)

What was the mfg that you talked to?

~M

the humidipak/boveda technology is same as the technology behind the salt test.
do your calibrations as close as you can to 70 degrees because higher/lower temps will cause different readings.
the Bovedas do have the ability to adjust relative humidity regardless of temp, but this is a slow process. a temp change will cause a change in readings much faster than the Boveda can react too.

 

[rick12string]

Interesting...I have done tons of testing on the HygroSet IIs and never experience this phenomenon.

Try also doing a standard salt test to see if you get the same results. (This is what I have always done to calibrate)

According to a post RonC made once, Humidipak told him that the further you get away from 70 degrees the more inaccurate the Boveda packs become.

But I may be wrong in remembering that (Ron?)

What was the mfg that you talked to?

~M

Yes very interesting. On the Boveda test kits it states to test between 65 degrees and 75 degrees for accurate readings. That means to me that between 65 and 75 degrees the kit should be at 75.5% RH (+/-0.5%) according to their info. At one time I was calibrating four hygros (2 digital and 2 analog). BTW the digitals were WD Cal III’s which do not have the electronic problem discussed in this thread. I used 2 different Boveda test kits and got different readings from each kit although the hygrometers concurred with each other as far as the variation from one test kit to the next. I contacted Humidipak and they were very adamant about the accuracy of their test kits stating that it’s physics (the salt test basically) and very accurate. That doesn’t explain why different digitals and analogs all read 3% higher in one test kit than the other and they were both newly purchased kits.

When I checked my readings in these tests I always made sure the temp was right in the 70 degree range because that is right in the middle of the temp range they recommend.
I sent them the test kits per their request and they told me they tested them and they were OK. I beg to differ. I had 4 hygrometers, 2 digital and 2 analog and they all varied exactly 3% from kit to kit. I find that a very unlikely coincidence.
Humidipak insisted it was the hygrometers and not the test kits.
Now they tell RonC that the further from 70 degrees you get, the less accurate they are. (if recalled correctly)

Even though I’m not sold on the ultra consistency of the test kits, getting back to the digital hygros with the RH reading problem, it is an electronic problem supposedly with the chip and I was told the manufacturer has confirmed this. For more info this, please read my previous posts.

P.S. As long as your temp didn’t go down the 67 degrees while testing you would not have experienced this problem.

 

[Jwrussell]

That is very strange Rick. And I would have been fairly irritated about that as well! I assume that you were showing these differences after 48 hours?
I always get two test kits and test my hygros in one kit and then the next (yes, I know I'm anal :grinFU. Never ran into this problem, but it wouldn't surprise me to find that there was an issue at some point. Pump enough of anything out and you will end up with a problem here and there.

 

[N2Advnture]

...Relative freaking humidity is relative freaking humdity. That chart explains why you might see some sudden jumps with changes in temperature, but given time and a good humidification media (Boveda, Beads, etc.) the RH will return to where it needs to be regardless of the humdity.
This damn chart is like a cockroach, it never dies!

Further, their seasoning instructions are horrible. There is no damn reason to wipe a humidor down.

I agree, the chart is confusing for cigar smokers but I now wonder if pulling the hygrometer out of a relative humidity enclosure into the ambient humidity environment if that is what we are seeing on the hygrometers with the change in humidity readings coinciding with temp changes.

Any thoughts?

 

[rick12string]

I agree, the chart is confusing for cigar smokers but I now wonder if pulling the hygrometer out of a relative humidity enclosure into the ambient humidity environment if that is what we are seeing on the hygrometers with the change in humidity readings coinciding with temp changes.

Any thoughts?

No, this is keeping them in the same envireoment during a 48 hour test. I made sure to eliminate all variables. I did the 48 hour tests multiple times to check and make sure it was not just an anomaly.

 

[Jwrussell]

In my most humble and non-scientific opinion, not a chance in hell Mark. I checked this multiple times last night with all of my hygros. All three of them did the exact same thing at the exact same temperature. Further, I watched one go from 67-68 in my wine cooler and it did the same thing. I hadn't been in the winecooler messing with anything for over an hour at that point. It never varies. It's always exactly 5% and it's always at the change from 67-68 (or vice versa).

Combine that with this: Since yesterday afternoon I've been checking my hygros quite a bit (through the glass, without opening the door) and if I take this discrepency into account, those hygros that are at 67 or below match up, once I've subtracted 5% from them, with the ones at 68 or above.

 

[N2Advnture]

No, this is keeping them in the same envireoment during a 48 hour test. I made sure to eliminate all variables. I did the 48 hour tests multiple times to check and make sure it was not just an anomaly.

Thanks for the clarification, it sounded as if JW was pulling them out of the humidor to check this anomaly and wanted to make sure we were all trying to get to the bottom using the same test.

What hygrometers have you tested this on so far?

Madelaine
Western Caliber III

Thanks again,
Mark

 

[Jwrussell]

I did indeed do that Mark, but I also watched the phenomenon (heheh, sorry, that sounds funny) occur while it was in the wine cooler.

All three of mine are HygroSet. One circular (with the red button) and two rectangular.