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Mitch

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Firearms for self defense

Here are some thoughts you may wish to consider. First off is where will the weapon be stored? Handguns can be easily stored in a small lunch box size safe that uses a code to open it and is mountable just about anywhere. Getting a cabinet for a rifle or shotgun is much more of a pain. If you don’t secure the weapon, you are risking having walking in on a burglar being changed into walking in on an armed burglar. Trust me that all the hiding spots you will think of are either impractical if you hear a bump in the night, or the first place they will look for valuables.

If you are going to pick either a handgun or a shotgun, I recommend the handgun. It’s not nearly as powerful, but easier to learn to shoot, better for weapons retention, easier to teach women and young adults with smaller bodies and hands and it can be concealed. Even if you never ever think you will need to carry a firearm in your car or on your person, keep the option open. Two common myths of the shotgun are also that they have this magic cone of death and you can’t miss with one. The cone or pattern is actually very tight and it’s easy to miss up close where the pattern is often only a couple of inches wide. Shotguns using OO Buck or #2 Buck will penetrate car doors, exterior doors, interior walls, plywood, windshields, etc. They are not low penetration rounds and even bird shot due to it’s tight pattern up close will go right through these things as typical home defense distances.

Suggestions on a handgun if you are going that route is first to take a hard look at a double action .357 revolver. They are to hell and back reliable, very easy to shoot accurately and very easy to learn to use. The .357 is one of the most effective handgun rounds used for defense today, with few that come even close in stopping power. Revolvers do not have magazines, external safety switches, issues with jams, miss feeds or magazines that can pop out on accident. A loaded revolver doesn’t have a single spring under tension and can be stored for decades and still be reliable to the last shot. Automatics have lots of springs that must be under tension while loaded and springs compressed over a long period experience “stacking” or basically they loose the ability to go back to their full length and have less power to push with. This can be very bad if you are relying on the magazine spring to get the second shot into the chamber. If your wife never goes to the range even once, ten years from now she will be able to take the revolver and make it go boom six times. Otherwise, she is worried about which button is the safety, is the safety on or off now, is a round chambered, is the magazine fully in, what if it jams etc.

If you must have an automatic, go with a good name like Glock, Sig Sauer, HK, Ruger, S&W etc. Stay away from single action guns like the Colt 1911- they are great weapons for skilled shooters, but I’m guessing you want the anyone who needs it can use it weapon for when you are not home.
Top priority is find a gun you shoot well, go find a range that rents handguns and tell them you are trying to pick a handgun for purchase and want to try several. Most ranges will let you pay one hourly or set fee and swap out as many times as you like within reason. Don’t discount the 9mm, the high performance ammo for it is easily on par with the .40 and has less recoil and faster follow up shots. Police got away from the 9mm mostly due to politics, they were getting beat up over +P+ ratings that made them look all Dirty Harry, but rounds like the 9mm +P+ Win Ranger 125gr has better stops than many of the standard issue .40 police rounds in use today. Also, remember it is where you hit that matters far more than what you hit them with, so find a gun with good instinctive sights, preferably with night sights. I’m a big fan of a weapon mounted light and laser for in the home as well, but that’s another essay and I’ve gone on long enough.

Don’t get hung up on large magazine capacities, average shoot out is less rounds than a revolver hold let alone any of the double stack automatics of today.

If you are going for a shotgun, the Rem 870 and Mossberg 500 are both good picks, but consider a light and laser so you can hit the target easily.
 
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bballbaby

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yes mitch, great advice.

I just got back in the house after a 45 minute round trip drive...got to do some thinking. And i'm thinking that i will probably get both, a remintgon 870 express riot gun and a semi-auto handgun. Hopefully i can get lucky witht eh 870 and get one with light and/or laser already attached, or at least one with the rails already in place for attachment.

Lucky for me, there's a good gun shop not far from here that takes police trade ins. At least that way i'll know it's most likely been well cared for and reliable. I know they get the 870 riot guns in frequently. They go for like $250, which seems to be about right. I should be able to get an HK .40 for around $400 or so.
 

Halon

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If you're going shotgun, I really prefer mossbergs over remingtons. I am a huge fan of the ambidextrous thumb safety on the mossberg. I've got the 535, which is like the 500 but chambered for 3.5" shells (for geese, not people). If you get the 500, you can get super-short 18.5" barrels and load a ton of shells, too. I have 3" #4 buck shot in mine.
Be sure you also have a source of illumination. Hard to hit shit you can't see. Surefire makes some great stuff.
Shotguns just seem like the more obvious choice to me. The only thing you're going to do with a home defense gun is kill people, and tons of BBs cutting a hole through a person just makes more sense to me.


TYLER
 
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Gale if you're up for making a trip to the Hershey Area you can use and abuse both my glock 23 and my Mossburg 500. Not that you'll make a probably 6ish hour drive just to play with guns. :dunno:
 

Mitch

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Shotguns are great in the hands of a well trained and fairly strong person, but they are not without some cons. I have two shotguns at home, and neither is for hunting. I have a FN Police Automatic with a laser/light on pad switches and a small red dot optic and back up tactical sights. This is my favorite shotgun; I also have a Remington 870 folding stock with eight shot tube and light as well. The Remington has one of those plastic bright-light front beads, but in general most shotguns have sights worse than you’d find on a good pellet rifle. In my home the shotguns are for the person behind the person with the handgun when clearing the house, they don’t take the lead. In my house I’m up front with a Para-Ordnance P-14 Limited or tricked out Glock 34 with the wife with her Sig Sauer 239 and/or FN Shotgun behind. Basically with the type of two person house clearing I utilize the person up front checks out areas and the person behind makes sure the person up front can trust that their back is covered.

Shotguns are harder to do weapons retention with by the nature of their longer barrel and being front heavy, they are much harder to hang onto if grabbed in a struggle. Shotguns are more difficult to navigate corners with, stairs with, under and around cars, etc. With any long gun where you place your feet is more important, you can lead with either foot with a pistol, but with a long gun you have to pay attention around corners, on stairs, stepping over things etc. You can’t holster your shotgun for weapons retention, shotguns are forward heavy and lights, extended mags and lasers make it worse for handling and exhausting for smaller frame people to hold in position. You need to keep a greater distance between you and possible trouble with a shotgun because swinging the barrel is slower than with a handgun. Because handguns can be shot with little worry of the recoil, you can tip them around corners, over furniture, under cars or anywhere else you need to cover and still be able to shoot rapidly and fairly accurately. A handgun held close to your side doesn’t protrude around corners, isn’t easy to grab and still point shoots where you are facing. Shotguns hold a fairly small number of shells compared to most modern automatics and reloading takes more training and more time. Shotgun ammo is both heavy and bulky, although the option of being able to use specialty ammo is a big plus, several types of slugs will penetrate very well, even a vest if needed.

Don’t think I’m trashing the Shotgun, they are the wizards of one shot stopping, great for vehicle encounters, emergency lock removal and the kings of intimidation. A good automatic like the one I have is on par with the very best submachine guns like the MP-5 for entry teams and civilian legal without hassle. However, mastering weapons retention, house clearing, and the tactical skills associated with using a shotgun is much harder than with a handgun.

And yes, I have a lot of free time today to write very long posts.
 

rabbgp

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Shotguns are great in the hands of a well trained and fairly strong person, but they are not without some cons. I have two shotguns at home, and neither is for hunting. I have a FN Police Automatic with a laser/light on pad switches and a small red dot optic and back up tactical sights. This is my favorite shotgun; I also have a Remington 870 folding stock with eight shot tube and light as well. The Remington has one of those plastic bright-light front beads, but in general most shotguns have sights worse than you’d find on a good pellet rifle. In my home the shotguns are for the person behind the person with the handgun when clearing the house, they don’t take the lead. In my house I’m up front with a Para-Ordnance P-14 Limited or tricked out Glock 34 with the wife with her Sig Sauer 239 and/or FN Shotgun behind. Basically with the type of two person house clearing I utilize the person up front checks out areas and the person behind makes sure the person up front can trust that their back is covered.

Shotguns are harder to do weapons retention with by the nature of their longer barrel and being front heavy, they are much harder to hang onto if grabbed in a struggle. Shotguns are more difficult to navigate corners with, stairs with, under and around cars, etc. With any long gun where you place your feet is more important, you can lead with either foot with a pistol, but with a long gun you have to pay attention around corners, on stairs, stepping over things etc. You can’t holster your shotgun for weapons retention, shotguns are forward heavy and lights, extended mags and lasers make it worse for handling and exhausting for smaller frame people to hold in position. You need to keep a greater distance between you and possible trouble with a shotgun because swinging the barrel is slower than with a handgun. Because handguns can be shot with little worry of the recoil, you can tip them around corners, over furniture, under cars or anywhere else you need to cover and still be able to shoot rapidly and fairly accurately. A handgun held close to your side doesn’t protrude around corners, isn’t easy to grab and still point shoots where you are facing. Shotguns hold a fairly small number of shells compared to most modern automatics and reloading takes more training and more time. Shotgun ammo is both heavy and bulky, although the option of being able to use specialty ammo is a big plus, several types of slugs will penetrate very well, even a vest if needed.

Don’t think I’m trashing the Shotgun, they are the wizards of one shot stopping, great for vehicle encounters, emergency lock removal and the kings of intimidation. A good automatic like the one I have is on par with the very best submachine guns like the MP-5 for entry teams and civilian legal without hassle. However, mastering weapons retention, house clearing, and the tactical skills associated with using a shotgun is much harder than with a handgun.

And yes, I have a lot of free time today to write very long posts.
Remind me to never break in your house!!
 

jwintosh

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Shotguns are great in the hands of a well trained and fairly strong person, but they are not without some cons. I have two shotguns at home, and neither is for hunting. I have a FN Police Automatic with a laser/light on pad switches and a small red dot optic and back up tactical sights. This is my favorite shotgun; I also have a Remington 870 folding stock with eight shot tube and light as well. The Remington has one of those plastic bright-light front beads, but in general most shotguns have sights worse than you’d find on a good pellet rifle. In my home the shotguns are for the person behind the person with the handgun when clearing the house, they don’t take the lead. In my house I’m up front with a Para-Ordnance P-14 Limited or tricked out Glock 34 with the wife with her Sig Sauer 239 and/or FN Shotgun behind. Basically with the type of two person house clearing I utilize the person up front checks out areas and the person behind makes sure the person up front can trust that their back is covered.

Shotguns are harder to do weapons retention with by the nature of their longer barrel and being front heavy, they are much harder to hang onto if grabbed in a struggle. Shotguns are more difficult to navigate corners with, stairs with, under and around cars, etc. With any long gun where you place your feet is more important, you can lead with either foot with a pistol, but with a long gun you have to pay attention around corners, on stairs, stepping over things etc. You can’t holster your shotgun for weapons retention, shotguns are forward heavy and lights, extended mags and lasers make it worse for handling and exhausting for smaller frame people to hold in position. You need to keep a greater distance between you and possible trouble with a shotgun because swinging the barrel is slower than with a handgun. Because handguns can be shot with little worry of the recoil, you can tip them around corners, over furniture, under cars or anywhere else you need to cover and still be able to shoot rapidly and fairly accurately. A handgun held close to your side doesn’t protrude around corners, isn’t easy to grab and still point shoots where you are facing. Shotguns hold a fairly small number of shells compared to most modern automatics and reloading takes more training and more time. Shotgun ammo is both heavy and bulky, although the option of being able to use specialty ammo is a big plus, several types of slugs will penetrate very well, even a vest if needed.

Don’t think I’m trashing the Shotgun, they are the wizards of one shot stopping, great for vehicle encounters, emergency lock removal and the kings of intimidation. A good automatic like the one I have is on par with the very best submachine guns like the MP-5 for entry teams and civilian legal without hassle. However, mastering weapons retention, house clearing, and the tactical skills associated with using a shotgun is much harder than with a handgun.

And yes, I have a lot of free time today to write very long posts.

the new reality show: House Clearing with Mitch!!
 

CWS

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I let the wife try all my weapons from the 357 mag to the Browning pumps. Once she shot the 12 gauge browning she said, "put away those little hand guns, I found what I want. Always call ahead boys.
 

bballbaby

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mitch, i knew you'd be a wealth of info.

So it's settled. Handgun is priority #1. depending upon how much i drop on that will depent upon whether a shotgun is still in the immediate plans.

I will certainly get one in the very near future if not within the next couple of weeks. I have convinced the wife the need and she is totally on board with performing tactical pracitce and workouts and learning what she needs to know to protect our family and herself.
 
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mitch, i knew you'd be a wealth of info.

So it's settled. Handgun is priority #1. depending upon how much i drop on that will depent upon whether a shotgun is still in the immediate plans.

I will certainly get one in the very near future if not within the next couple of weeks. I have convinced the wife the need and she is totally on board with performing tactical pracitce and workouts and learning what she needs to know to protect our family and herself.
Awesome Gale! You won't regret your decision!
 

Mitch

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I let the wife try all my weapons from the 357 mag to the Browning pumps. Once she shot the 12 gauge browning she said, "put away those little hand guns, I found what I want. Always call ahead boys.
That's great, my wife is a riot to take to the range, she can out shoot most people and has a simular outlook on life. Her motto is "Eat it all, Use it up, Wear it out!"
 
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