FIGHT FOCA (Freedom Of Choice Act)

[Hardcore]

Hey Everyone! I came across some information today regarding the FOCA Bill that our government will consider passing. Quite honestly it scares me that something like this may pass and become a law in the United States. Here is a link for a petition against this bill: http://www.fightfoca.com/ Also, here are a few of the sites that I read: http://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/Freedom_of_Choice_Act http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/FOCA/FOCA_FactSheet08.pdf http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/choice-action-center/us-gov/foca.html If this thing passes, the government will force ANY facility that participates in child delivery to ALSO provide abortions regardless of personal moral issues with the procedure. It will also use OUR TAX DOLLARS to fund abortions. I strongly urge everyone reading this to at the VERY LEAST be informed of what is going on. Even people that I know that are pro-choice believe this bill is outragious because it forces ALL Americans to fund or participate in something they may not believe in. Open your eyes & stay informed!!! There are a lot of major changes happening in this country and as Americans it is our right and our responsibility to stand up for what we believe in!

 

[cigarguy71]

And to believe i thought we lived in a free country.

 

[sportsmedjosh]

Well to be honest an abortion costs what $300 - $500. Lets say that someone is preggors and has to have the kid because they cannot afford to get an abortion or can't travel to a place which provides it, so they give birth. Lets say this kid now comes from a broken home and goes down a life or crime and gets all sort of problems, behavior, health, criminal. Which the state has to pick up, this is going to be a lot more expensive than just aborting a baby.

I'm playing devil's advocate here because well this isn't just about saving money. But think about it. The same can be said regarding Fire and Police, why should every american have to pay for these services in their cities when they do not use it. Should police and fire be on a incident by incident basis?

 

[smokinghole]

You better quiet down there Josh they might start taxing your ability to provoke thought and your freedom of speech!

 

[Soundwave13]

Interesting point Josh.

 

[sportsmedjosh]

There are so many things that we pay for that we might not always use. While I agree that people need to be more responsible for their actions I see nothing wrong with this, call me a liberal paternalist if you want.

 

[coppereagl]

I did an essay not too long ago about the distinct differences in cultures that embraced abortion and those that did not, guess which one was plagued with violence, lower education and decline in overall economy....

However, I know most cities have plenty of pro choice places, there shouldnt be any reason to force facilities that dont want to participate to do so.

As far as the funding goes, like josh said its not that expensive and its no different than all the junkies that live on welfare, or the immigrants taking advatage of a health system they did not pay to fund.

LOL I guess if we really look hard at it, were fucked in all kinds of ways. Well Im gonna go back to telling Iraqi's how to govern themselves, take care guys

 

[Hardcore]

But is it right to cut the funding to a hospital that won't perform an abortion? That is what this will do. Think of all of the catholic hospitals there are. They will all end up closing down. This is a clear violation of our rights as Americans.

 

[Soundwave13]

I'm not entirely sure the goverment should be funding a 'religious' hospital anyway...

Also - 'America' has been violating peoples rights for a loooooong time...

 

[Hardcore]

So it is ok for them to keep on violating them? Where will it stop!?
As for funding a religious hospital, why not. The hospital doesn't push it's religious views on it's patrons. We need to take measures to keep them open not to close them down.

 

[sportsmedjosh]

But is it right to cut the funding to a hospital that won't perform an abortion? That is what this will do. Think of all of the catholic hospitals there are. They will all end up closing down. This is a clear violation of our rights as Americans.

Here is my question why should a hospital which is for profit receive funding from tax payers who might not uses the services at that hospital or have their own private insurance. Also lets not forget that even people who are covered under insurance sometimes don't cover procedures such as those. Hell some insurance companies don't cover birth control.

Here is another thing to think about what about abortions in which rape or incest plays a part, should the person not have the option to get an abortion at that time. Think of the psychological damage that could occur if a person was force to find a location which did provide this service.

 

[sportsmedjosh]

So it is ok for them to keep on violating them? Where will it stop!?
As for funding a religious hospital, why not. The hospital doesn't push it's religious views on it's patrons. We need to take measures to keep them open not to close them down.

If we want to keep them open lets go to a universal health coverage, which makes sure the hospital receive funding for everything they do.

 

[Hardcore]

Sure let's just become a socialist nation. Just one step away from communism.

 

[cba191]

So it is ok for them to keep on violating them? Where will it stop!?
As for funding a religious hospital, why not. The hospital doesn't push it's religious views on it's patrons. We need to take measures to keep them open not to close them down.

Wouldn't not providing for an abortion be the same as pushing a religious view? :dunno:

 

[Hardcore]

Not at all. It's the freedom of choice.

 

[sportsmedjosh]

Not at all. It's the freedom of choice.

You can't have freedom on choice if you're only allowed one option. A true freedom of choice would be to provide two options and allow someone to choose from them.

 

[Hardcore]

Please take this to the debate room.

 

[flathead59]

If we want to keep them open lets go to a universal health coverage, which makes sure the hospital receive funding for everything they do.

I honestly believe we're on our way there Josh, but I don't think it will turn out to be all beer and Skittles. I've talked to Canadians about their Government provided (taxpayer funded) health care for all, and it isn't something that the people, at least an awful lot of them, are happy about. 6-8 month wait times to see a specialist, denial of service because it isn't deemed necessary, treatments rejected because they're "unproven", etc. Those that can afford it go to private physicians and pay the bill themselves. Talk to the middle class in the UK, and you'll hear basically the same thing.

Mark

 

[sascha]

I honestly believe we're on our way there Josh, but I don't think it will turn out to be all beer and Skittles. I've talked to Canadians about their Government provided (taxpayer funded) health care for all, and it isn't something that the people, at least an awful lot of them, are happy about. 6-8 month wait times to see a specialist, denial of service because it isn't deemed necessary, treatments rejected because they're "unproven", etc. Those that can afford it go to private physicians and pay the bill themselves. Talk to the middle class in the UK, and you'll hear basically the same thing.

Mark

same in germany, where I am from. our system here isn't good, but I don't miss what I had in germany and it has also changed since I left 14 years ago.

somewhere in the middle might be a way to go

 

[BGC]

You can't have freedom on choice if you're only allowed one option. A true freedom of choice would be to provide two options and allow someone to choose from them.

Exactly