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The wrong action can be a lot worse than inaction. Though again, there are plenty of actions that many/most agree on that we can just pass and get this thing started NOW:

1) Malpractice reform (HUGE issue)
2) Prudent use of medicare funds for those without insurance (HUGE issue--there are absolutely no regulations regarding this. People literally call an ambulance and lie about an emergency in order to get a ride to the doctor because that's "free" and then they don't have to hire a cab--just that once thing happens A LOT!)
3) Once #2 is achieved, increase medicare funding
4) Investigate putting a cap on annual profits of private insurance companies
yes, hey congress here's another solution. Open up the market so that a person can buy his insurance from any company. I can get Loyds of London to insure my car, but if i want health insurace i got to pick from only a few. I say let the insurance companies have to compete nationwide, with all that competition bound to see costs go down.
 

hdroadglide

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one way a bill could get passed is if the first line reads...this program will cover all americans including all elected officials.....
 

Mitch

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The way I see it is there is no seperation of the health industry and goverment now. Drug and insurance big bussiness has had congress in their back pocket for decades and it's hurt the average person, I don't want the goverment to run my health care, but we gotta get the prices down. Name most any procedure or surgery and it costs quadruple or worse here than in any other country. Where does most of the cost go? We're back to those big profits. They have created the perfect system for them, the end consumer only see's a co-pay so we unknowing accept crazy prices and they both profit. We are overpaying, the doctors are getting squezed, insurance rates keep going up, cost of drugs keep going up. This is very one sided in their favor and they are the ones now spending millions to stop anything that will create competion in the market. I'm not buying the scare tactis, they don't add up to me.
 

njstone

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All of that money does NOT go to profits (though much surely does). Much of it goes to:

1) Medical research (especially from the drug companies)--the US pays for about 90% of the medical research worldwide, and that's the reason we have the drugs and cures we have, the surgical procedures we have, and the reason health care is so much improved over years ago. This particular "big buisness" is the reason we can do heart transplants and have essentially cured AIDS.
The quality of health care in America is among the BEST in the world, and in many cases THE BEST in the world, period. The issue here is not quality, but helping those who can't afford this health care. Those of us in the cigar world should understand that quality usually comes at a cost.

2) Waste. This is what I'm talking about with Medicare as well. When an person without insurance comes into a public hospital, that hospital is REQUIRED BY LAW to see that patient and if needs be treat them. The idea that there are people in the country being denied necessary medical treatments that could be performed easily and cheaply if they only had insurance--this is a myth. My wife is a doctor, and she has to treat these patients all the time. Women who are on crack, have 4 kids at home, and take an ambulance to see the doctor AMA because they want to save money on a taxi ... it's insane. Medicare pays for much of this waste, but the individual hospitals pay for it as well (and they have to pay insurance to protect themselves from malpractice in order to treat these non-paying patients).

--EXAMPLE: It costs a ton of money to ride in an ambulence. Why? You have to pay 24-hour EMTs, Paramedics, Drivers, Techs, ER nurses, hospital admin, etc, and pay for vehicles and upkeep, 911 dispatch workers, etc, etc. (Think about all the people that are employed by this!) Then, YOU AND I have to pay for every person who uses the ambulance service who does not have insurance, including the idiots who use it like a taxi. These costs (the ones not covered by medicare) are passed on to us.

3) Malpractice. Everyone who works in a hospital needs special insurance. Those who touch patients need malpractice insurance. This is one of the most HORRIBLE industries there is. Trial lawyers like John Edwards have made a ridiculously lucrative career out of convincing juries of emotional people that various mistakes made by doctors and hospital workers are worth millions upon millions of dollars. If we don't put serious caps on malpractice lawsuits soon, the entire healthcare industry will collapse.

EXAMPLE--The average OB/GYN doctor who has NEVER had a malpractice suit against them pays roughly HALF of their salary to malpractice insurance. There are many people in the country that do not have a single OB/GYN within hours of their city. This isn't because they live in the middle of nowhere, it's because malpractice insurance costs so insanely much for OB/GYN doctors that they simply cannot afford to practice in certian places. In certian states it is estimated that there needs to be two or even three times as many OB/GYNs in order to meet the needs of the patients, but they'll never meet that demand because those doctors cannot afford to work there. There are places in the country where OB/GYNs make less money than a high school teacher ... OBs spend 24 years in school, work insanely long hours, and usually graduate with over $100,000 in school debt.
 
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I believe none of this will kick in for another 4 years so those thinking this will be offering immediate help will be saddly mistaken. Of course we all know what will be happening in 2013.
 
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EXAMPLE--The average OB/GYN doctor who has NEVER had a malpractice suit against them pays roughly HALF of their salary to malpractice insurance. There are many people in the country that do not have a single OB/GYN within hours of their city. This isn't because they live in the middle of nowhere, it's because malpractice insurance costs so insanely much for OB/GYN doctors that they simply cannot afford to practice in certian places. In certian states it is estimated that there needs to be two or even three times as many OB/GYNs in order to meet the needs of the patients, but they'll never meet that demand because those doctors cannot afford to work there. There are places in the country where OB/GYNs make less money than a high school teacher ... OBs spend 24 years in school, work insanely long hours, and usually graduate with over $100,000 in school debt.[/QUOTE]


Why would anyone pay half their income in "malpractice insurance", go to school for 24yrs, get in debt for $100,000 in financial aid to make less than a high school teacher ($40,000)?

Doesn't make much sense to me!
 

Mitch

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All of that money does NOT go to profits (though much surely does). Much of it goes to:

1) Medical research (especially from the drug companies)--the US pays for about 90% of the medical research worldwide, and that's the reason we have the drugs and cures we have, the surgical procedures we have, and the reason health care is so much improved over years ago. This particular "big buisness" is the reason we can do heart transplants and have essentially cured AIDS.
The quality of health care in America is among the BEST in the world, and in many cases THE BEST in the world, period. The issue here is not quality, but helping those who can't afford this health care. Those of us in the cigar world should understand that quality usually comes at a cost.

2) Waste. This is what I'm talking about with Medicare as well. When an person without insurance comes into a public hospital, that hospital is REQUIRED BY LAW to see that patient and if needs be treat them. The idea that there are people in the country being denied necessary medical treatments that could be performed easily and cheaply if they only had insurance--this is a myth. My wife is a doctor, and she has to treat these patients all the time. Women who are on crack, have 4 kids at home, and take an ambulance to see the doctor AMA because they want to save money on a taxi ... it's insane. Medicare pays for much of this waste, but the individual hospitals pay for it as well (and they have to pay insurance to protect themselves from malpractice in order to treat these non-paying patients).

--EXAMPLE: It costs a ton of money to ride in an ambulence. Why? You have to pay 24-hour EMTs, Paramedics, Drivers, Techs, ER nurses, hospital admin, etc, and pay for vehicles and upkeep, 911 dispatch workers, etc, etc. (Think about all the people that are employed by this!) Then, YOU AND I have to pay for every person who uses the ambulance service who does not have insurance, including the idiots who use it like a taxi. These costs (the ones not covered by medicare) are passed on to us.

3) Malpractice. Everyone who works in a hospital needs special insurance. Those who touch patients need malpractice insurance. This is one of the most HORRIBLE industries there is. Trial lawyers like John Edwards have made a ridiculously lucrative career out of convincing juries of emotional people that various mistakes made by doctors and hospital workers are worth millions upon millions of dollars. If we don't put serious caps on malpractice lawsuits soon, the entire healthcare industry will collapse.

EXAMPLE--The average OB/GYN doctor who has NEVER had a malpractice suit against them pays roughly HALF of their salary to malpractice insurance. There are many people in the country that do not have a single OB/GYN within hours of their city. This isn't because they live in the middle of nowhere, it's because malpractice insurance costs so insanely much for OB/GYN doctors that they simply cannot afford to practice in certian places. In certian states it is estimated that there needs to be two or even three times as many OB/GYNs in order to meet the needs of the patients, but they'll never meet that demand because those doctors cannot afford to work there. There are places in the country where OB/GYNs make less money than a high school teacher ... OBs spend 24 years in school, work insanely long hours, and usually graduate with over $100,000 in school debt.
After research, paying lawers and all the things you mention they are reporting huge profits, if all the money was going to the things you are describing they would not have profits. This isn't clear cut, but my oppinion remains that us, our doctors, hospitals, and just about everyone else is getting squeezed while the insurance companies and drug companies with lobbyists in Washington are cashing in. I don't see this as the goverment taking over health care, I see it as the little people taking back our goverment that has sold us out.
 

rick12string

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This sick fuck doesn't believe a word he's saying.

I'd love to see that garbage fact checked.
You seem very opinionated with short quick condemnations but no facts to back up your own comments. Just like when I posted a video clip of a girl quickly field stripping and then assembling an AR rifle you said they left out the part when they then go out and shoot innocent people. WTF!
No disrespect intended but you seem to be speaking out of ignorance of the topics or you're just drinking the Kool-Aid.
 

njstone

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EXAMPLE--The average OB/GYN doctor who has NEVER had a malpractice suit against them pays roughly HALF of their salary to malpractice insurance. There are many people in the country that do not have a single OB/GYN within hours of their city. This isn't because they live in the middle of nowhere, it's because malpractice insurance costs so insanely much for OB/GYN doctors that they simply cannot afford to practice in certian places. In certian states it is estimated that there needs to be two or even three times as many OB/GYNs in order to meet the needs of the patients, but they'll never meet that demand because those doctors cannot afford to work there. There are places in the country where OB/GYNs make less money than a high school teacher ... OBs spend 24 years in school, work insanely long hours, and usually graduate with over $100,000 in school debt.


Why would anyone pay half their income in "malpractice insurance", go to school for 24yrs, get in debt for $100,000 in financial aid to make less than a high school teacher ($40,000)?

Doesn't make much sense to me!

That's why there is a shortage of OB/GYNs. They make among the lowest salaries for all surgeons, and have the highest malpractice insurance of any specialty (anesthesiology is close in some areas).

Though to be clear, that comparison to a high school teacher's salary is probably an extreme example (got it from a Dateline report).
 

njstone

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After research, paying lawers and all the things you mention they are reporting huge profits, if all the money was going to the things you are describing they would not have profits. This isn't clear cut, but my oppinion remains that us, our doctors, hospitals, and just about everyone else is getting squeezed while the insurance companies and drug companies with lobbyists in Washington are cashing in. I don't see this as the goverment taking over health care, I see it as the little people taking back our goverment that has sold us out.
I agree that we need more regulation (and I even though we should look into capping insurance companies profit %), and I'd love it if we could take it back ... but that's not what this bill does. What this bill does is give a lot MORE power to that same government that sold us out.
 
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I agree that we need more regulation (and I even though we should look into capping insurance companies profit %), and I'd love it if we could take it back ... but that's not what this bill does. What this bill does is give a lot MORE power to that same government that sold us out.

The public only hears/sees a very large dollar amount. That pisses off people. What the public never hears/sees is the total profit %. Most health insurance companies end up with a profit of less than 5% of their gross income. Why? The insurance companies have to sign contracts with hospitals and medical groups every year. Guess what, the insurance companies are always trying to keep the compensation low but the hospitals and medical groups want more every year. Sometimes insurance companies loose medical group/hospitals, and sometimes the insurance companies cave in and pay the higher price. When the insurance companies pay the higher prices, they have to raise premiums. It is very simple, and it is no different than any other business/industry. There is give and take on a daily basis. The real problem is "we the people" have an emotional/physical attachment to this process. Emotional decisions usually f**k things up.
 
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