Why 70/70 and what does it mean?

[PLUSH]

Especially important as many brothers are picking up cooled units lately. The RH number going up a bit when your vino goes lower is something that alot of folks new to cooling waste lots of time worrying about.

Nice post, Mitch. Thanks.

Actually, with mine that I had for 4 years, every time the temperature cycled to cooling, the RH would drop. Most of the time it would be at 67/67.

 

[PLUSH]

Plush,

Thanks for the information. Yep, I got some of it wrong. I was not trying to sugest anyone keep a humidor at any crazy settings, I was trying to explain why RH changes so much with temperature changes, but obviously got a concept or two wrong. I'm gonna go back and do some editing and keep this open for feedback, I may not have this as down as i thought, but I seem to have been right that it's not well understood. Not sure if this thread still has it's purpose, but I still think some kind of information here would be a plus. Maybe the best option is your link if the site allows it.

That is all I was doing, was presenting info, nothing more. I just have read both side when I started smoking 5 years ago. I try to keep mine as close to 65/65, as this is where I like them. I think you are once again presenting valuable information. People need to read, learn, and understand.

 

[PLUSH]

:scratchhe :dunno:

My humidor is in the basement, temps are a constant 60 degrees, my hygrometers read:
Top - 65%
Bottom - 67%

So what does this mean?

are you asking this is jest? Sounds like a good setup to me, worrying about 2 percent difference is not worth the time and frustration. Open it up and blow in it every once and awhile to get more air movement. :devil:

 

[Volusianator]

are you asking this is jest? Sounds like a good setup to me, worrying about 2 percent difference is not worth the time and frustration. Open it up and blow in it every once and awhile to get more air movement. :devil:

No I was serious. I guess I just read to much into Mitch's post about 60 degrees being like 99%? So when my hygrometer says 67% is it really 67%?

 

[IndyPaintballSmoker]

the chart is no good.

Thanks for the Verification
Sounded a bit off
Hope you fix the chart

 

[Mitch]

That is all I was doing, was presenting info, nothing more. I just have read both side when I started smoking 5 years ago. I try to keep mine as close to 65/65, as this is where I like them. I think you are once again presenting valuable information. People need to read, learn, and understand.

I'll do a rewrite and put it up tommorow as I said, taking the time to read what you posted I don't agree with it 100% either. It makes it sound like a cigar will swell if you drop the temperature in a sealed enviorment. I'm not an expert, but that seems to go against the science I know. I was trying to get a couple of points across, mostly about don't panic if the RH moves some with temperature changes.

 

[Starz26]

Ok, here is how I look at it:

Relative Humidity is called that because it is the amount of water vapor relative to the temperature. The amount of water vapor is irrelevant to our cigars but plays a factor in determining %RH...

Think of it this way, when it is 100 degrees out how does your body react say:

in FL where the %RH is 90%, you sweat your ass off because the air cannot absorb the moisture your body is putting out

in AZ where the %RH is say 50%, you sweat but are dry because the air absorbs the moisture from you skin.

The point is, it is all about balance. %RH Air > cigars = cigars absorb moisture from the air, %RH Air < cigars, air absorbs moisture from the cigars. The temperature at which this happens is irrelevant. All the details are just details to describe %RH and we do not care.

If you like your cigars at 65% keep it there regardless of the temp. The temp come into play with aging AfAIK...

Thats it for now, i am probably completely confusing people by now...

 

[openendstraight]

Just buy some Heartfield beads (65%, 69%, or 72% which ever you prefer) the beads don't care what the temp is they just keep the air at the % they are designed to.

 

[JRL]

:hammersma: My head hurts.

 

[Simoun]

RH is derived by multiplying and dividing a set of coefficients, one of which already factors in temperature shifts, so a measurement of 65% rh is 65%, regardless of whether it's 50 degrees or 100 degrees.

 

[PLUSH]

:hammersma: My head hurts.

cause you need to eat more!:angryteet

 

[JRL]

cause you need to eat more!:angryteet

Lmao Next week maybe. Lol

I am eating, carrots and celery. :grinFU:

 

[Starz26]

RH is derived by multiplying and dividing a set of coefficients, one of which already factors in temperature shifts, so a measurement of 65% rh is 65%, regardless of whether it's 50 degrees or 100 degrees.

You are correct that 65% RH is 65% RH. The confusion comes when you ask questions and use that to get an answer like:

is 65% at 60f hold more water than 65% at 100f, the answers is no, there is more water in the 100f at 65% so it make one feel 65% is not always 65% when in fact they are really asking about absolute humidity.

65%Rh at 60f is the same as 65%Rh at 70f, it is not the same volume of water (Absolute Humidity)

The problem is, for cigars WE DO NOT CARE what the temp is in relation to humidity! People are thinking too much into this...

Bottom line, find the RH you like to smoke at and keep it there regardless of temp. Notice how NO humidification units even take into account the temperature other than displaying it?

 

[ShortyStogie]

You are correct that 65% RH is 65% RH. The confusion comes when you ask questions and use that to get an answer like:

is 65% at 60f hold more water than 65% at 100f, the answers is no, there is more water in the 100f at 65% so it make one feel 65% is not always 65% when in fact they are really asking about absolute humidity.

65%Rh at 60f is the same as 65%Rh at 70f, it is not the same volume of water (Absolute Humidity)

The problem is, for cigars WE DO NOT CARE what the temp is in relation to humidity! People are thinking too much into this...

Bottom line, find the RH you like to smoke at and keep it there regardless of temp. Notice how NO humidification units even take into account the temperature other than displaying it?

Starz,

Very good points.

I used to worry so bloody much about the temp. Then I realized that a) no humidor controls the temperature other than maaaaaybe showing what it is, and b) I couldn't do anything about it to control it in my boxes...

So I figured that it couldn't be a big thing. Until I started reading up on it. And I'm now a firm believer in the fact that you should do all you can to maintain the RH, and don't sweat the temp.

Thanks for this thread...

Fauzi

 

[boom]

Very informative

 

[Big Mulac]

great posts, thanks brothers

 

[Mitch]

I think I'm going to plan a little Myth busting here.

Here is my question. If you take some cigars and get them to 70% RH at say 85 degrees will they swell up, have draw problems and burn issues? I think I'm going to do that to some cigars for the Herf in a couple weeks and see what we get. I'm woundering compaired to the rest of the box at about 70/70 what will they weigh and look like?

Thoughts.....

 

[Psojka RP,601]

Thanks, Mitch! great read!

 

[strife]

I think I'm going to plan a little Myth busting here.

Here is my question. If you take some cigars and get them to 70% RH at say 85 degrees will they swell up, have draw problems and burn issues? I think I'm going to do that to some cigars for the Herf in a couple weeks and see what we get. I'm woundering compaired to the rest of the box at about 70/70 what will they weigh and look like?

Thoughts.....

Go for it, let us know the results although IMO they should smoke equally as well.

 

[kravnh]

...you should do all you can to maintain the RH, and don't sweat the temp.

UNLESS your temp goes above 73* F, at which point beetle eggs will hatch, but that is a whole other discussion...

When I worked at a B&M, I had this discussion many times. My (overly) simple argument was that RH stands for RELATIVE humidity, which means it is independent of temperature. If you strive to increase or decrease your humidity based on the the temp, you are talking about ABSOLUTE humidity.

It is easy to get carried away with the minutiae of this stuff, because we are all so interested in all things cigars, but also because we all have lots of $$ tied up in our smokes, and we want to keep them pristine...until we set 'em on fire...