Jfire
BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
I would ask you if you have owned then since released 1st before anything.
think and opine
- Thread starter hdroadglide
- Start date
avid toker
Regulator
Jason has made some really good points already and I'll add my 2 cents.
1) NC's, in general, are rolled and aged for at least a year prior to release. Some even aged longer. Therefore they're ready to smoke immediately. This is something they can easily do because of the available stockpile of tobacco.
2) CC's go through fermentation, are then rolled and boxed for shipment out the door. That's why you smoke them within 6 months of rolling or after a year or two of rest. That's why you see boxcodes, a born on date of sorts. They were never that relevant for NC boxes were they?
3) The "stronger the cigar the better they age" addage is false. The popular belief is the more body on the cigar, the longer it will last. It doesn't mean less fuller bodied can't age gracefully. Look at ERdM Choix Supremes, I have stellar specimens that have gotten stronger over 12+yrs. Take for example 2001 QdO Corona Claros....mild and quaint when fresh but after 10yrs, these have blossomed into wonderful smokes. I have boxes full of Opus X. I recently took a 8yr old Opus X Belicoso that I aged myself and tried it out. What a boring, tasteless stick. I've taken Upmann Connies that were bombs when fresh and after 9yrs they're really nothing great.
1) NC's, in general, are rolled and aged for at least a year prior to release. Some even aged longer. Therefore they're ready to smoke immediately. This is something they can easily do because of the available stockpile of tobacco.
2) CC's go through fermentation, are then rolled and boxed for shipment out the door. That's why you smoke them within 6 months of rolling or after a year or two of rest. That's why you see boxcodes, a born on date of sorts. They were never that relevant for NC boxes were they?
3) The "stronger the cigar the better they age" addage is false. The popular belief is the more body on the cigar, the longer it will last. It doesn't mean less fuller bodied can't age gracefully. Look at ERdM Choix Supremes, I have stellar specimens that have gotten stronger over 12+yrs. Take for example 2001 QdO Corona Claros....mild and quaint when fresh but after 10yrs, these have blossomed into wonderful smokes. I have boxes full of Opus X. I recently took a 8yr old Opus X Belicoso that I aged myself and tried it out. What a boring, tasteless stick. I've taken Upmann Connies that were bombs when fresh and after 9yrs they're really nothing great.
Jfire
BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
I was saying that 3.5 yrs on a box that wasn't aged by you may be different. Then one you've had complete contol over aging. Or a box you may of just received from a current purchase. Flat from shipping.Sorry, I don't understand?
indyrob
BoM Feb '06 & Sept. '08
Completely agree with the above to some degree...Some cigars used to age better than todays counterparts because of the different strains of tobacco used. The major players in the Nicaraguan & Honduran factories want a consistent cigar that everyone can count on being the same no matter when it was rolled (think Budweiser) and age them before release to the point where they are ready in regards to what is already in/on the market.
The boutique factories do what they do on a per harvest batch, and turn them over with some small degree of being an actual vintage but do bear strong resemblances to what the last batch was.
When it comes to Cuban tobacco, it's the same varietals as the wine making regions using particular grapes to produce something that ages well and then there are some that are made for drinking as a non vintage. The Cubans have tobacco down to such an exact science that mirrors what the French have for grapes.
I do, however, think that the newest trend & strain caters to the US market of Smoke Now as opposed to the European market of rest and aging, and I think that started back in 1985 with the NIVELACUSO tracking system. It's odd that the cigars before then never needed to be dated and tracked until then, but I'm sure it had everything to do with new strains and how long it takes before they expire.
Pre-85 cigars are NOTHING like the cigars now. They are nothing like anything post 85 either. Now I can't say that I know what they taste like fresh, but there is no way that 30 years can change the core fundamentals of what the tobacco tastes like.
Age does hurt the cigars that were blended with the intention of smoking now. Don Pepin has the skill to blend cigars that are phenomenal ROTT and go completely flat within a year, but he also can blend cigars that age well and become more sublime after a couple of years.
Myself, I can sit on a box for a few years before I'm tossing away the empty box. I'm done chasing vintage cigars because the premium is getting out of hand and to be honest, the recent offerings are smoking really good right now.
njstone
BoM January 2010
Hilarous--I was literally just going to post a rant about the SAME thing! Here, I'll just cut-and-paste what I wrote before I read the rest of these comments
The Hypocrisy of Aging Cigars:
Please feel free to argue or post why I'm crazy here, but this is something that's been bugging me for a while now.
Why is it that most Cuban cigar lovers don't even bat an eye when they say something like "I don't bother smoking a RASS until at least the 5-year mark, it's just a waste of money. But by 5 years, they're awesome!"
But when I say, "You don't think the La Riqueza has enough flavor? Rest it for a year or so, I think they get MUCH better!" the response is usually something to the fact that "CIGARS SHOULD BE GOOD RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!"
Now, I have no problem with those who think a cigar should be good out of the box, but the issue is "good for whom?" We all have different tastes, and as such some like cigars better after some time. Take Tatuaje. Pete Johnson, Patrick B, and Elderboy and I discussed this a few months ago. Pete intentionally releases things on the early side because some prefer their cigars that way. Others--like me--then have the option to age them to their own tastes, and everybody wins. I have no problem with that.
What I don't get, though, is why so many people expect to have to age a Cuban, but don't afford the same courtesy to a non-Cuban cigar. The typical argument you've no doubt all heard:
"They don't age the tobacco very long in Cuba before rolling them, whereas most domestic cigars use well-aged tobacco and therefore don't require further aging."
I'd like to suggest that the above statement is false.
First off, many domestic cigars don't use "well-aged tobacco." Take Tatuaje again as an example. The most pre-aged Tat--the new La Verite 2008--uses tobacco that's like 16-months old or something, right? Less than a total of 2-years from soil to today. That's it, and that's their most aged product, I believe. (The non-Anniversary Padrons are likewise very young tobacco). So why wouldn't people afford something like a Tatauje the same courtesy they would automatically give to a Montecristo? Maybe it used to be the case that NCs used "well-aged tobacco," but I think very often that is not true anymore, certainly not to the degree that it would make the difference.
I just don't get it, guys.
Discuss.
The Hypocrisy of Aging Cigars:
Please feel free to argue or post why I'm crazy here, but this is something that's been bugging me for a while now.
Why is it that most Cuban cigar lovers don't even bat an eye when they say something like "I don't bother smoking a RASS until at least the 5-year mark, it's just a waste of money. But by 5 years, they're awesome!"
But when I say, "You don't think the La Riqueza has enough flavor? Rest it for a year or so, I think they get MUCH better!" the response is usually something to the fact that "CIGARS SHOULD BE GOOD RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!"
Now, I have no problem with those who think a cigar should be good out of the box, but the issue is "good for whom?" We all have different tastes, and as such some like cigars better after some time. Take Tatuaje. Pete Johnson, Patrick B, and Elderboy and I discussed this a few months ago. Pete intentionally releases things on the early side because some prefer their cigars that way. Others--like me--then have the option to age them to their own tastes, and everybody wins. I have no problem with that.
What I don't get, though, is why so many people expect to have to age a Cuban, but don't afford the same courtesy to a non-Cuban cigar. The typical argument you've no doubt all heard:
"They don't age the tobacco very long in Cuba before rolling them, whereas most domestic cigars use well-aged tobacco and therefore don't require further aging."
I'd like to suggest that the above statement is false.
First off, many domestic cigars don't use "well-aged tobacco." Take Tatuaje again as an example. The most pre-aged Tat--the new La Verite 2008--uses tobacco that's like 16-months old or something, right? Less than a total of 2-years from soil to today. That's it, and that's their most aged product, I believe. (The non-Anniversary Padrons are likewise very young tobacco). So why wouldn't people afford something like a Tatauje the same courtesy they would automatically give to a Montecristo? Maybe it used to be the case that NCs used "well-aged tobacco," but I think very often that is not true anymore, certainly not to the degree that it would make the difference.
I just don't get it, guys.
Discuss.
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I understand the frustration here and couldn't agree with you more. but, something i've yet to see discussed in this thread is what a typical cc stick is compared to a nc and why it makes a difference.
cc's are typically medium bodied, floral in nature, a little on the sweet side, and overly complex for their mildness. when i first started with cc's as many do, the flavors sometimes were so faint i could not conceive them.
(take this lightly boys as there are many nc countries that have different tastes so i will be basing this off nicaraguan cigars because this board seems to favor the flavor of cigars from nicaragua)nc's are typically medium-full bodied, often spicy, and if well blended offer a massive complexity inversely proportional to power.
now, why would this make any difference on aging? i'll tell you why it does with me...if i have a milder project to start with (like a cc) and know that over time aging will mellow and smooth out my stick almost indefinitely...why not choose the quicker method of aging to achieve the complexity with smoothness and lightness that i enjoy... i.e. aging a cc for 10yrs could change a medium body cc to a mild/medium body...compared to aging a nc 10yrs and having it change from a medium/full body to a medium body cigar.
(fyi i age many nc's and have some pushing 10yrs, but to be honest the majority of my space for aging is taken up by cc's...this is personal preference and i don't think their will be any right answer over this topic because we all do things to are cigars for personal taste preferences...from aging certain cigar types and flavors, to temperature and humidity levels...)
smokemifugotem
BoM July '10
The best dpg blue and black that I have ever smoked both had a couple years on them...
A note. As I stated, I've been out of these conversations for some time. Further, I've paid little to no attention to recent (last 3-4 years) of NC releases other than knowing the big names from hearing them so much. My statements applied in general, and should not be taken to mean that EVERY NC cigar or manufacturer follows the same pattern. If you are aware that a NC cigar was rolled with young tobacco, there is no reason not to expect the same kind of aging process you would get from the same type of CC process. The same is true for CC cigars that are rolled with more aged tobacco.
Keep in mind that the upsurge of "Boutique" cigar manufactures (Pepin, Tatuaje both fit that mold) is fairly recent. If you know that a certain manufacturer treats their tobacco a certain way or uses young and or aged tobacco for a specific cigar, keep that in mind. All of this effects the discussion.
One last thing. I never meant to say that there was NO affect when aging cigars that use aged tobacco when rolled. However, the affect is different than using young tobacco. None of this is an exact science.
bingo!
TheCigarKid
Cigaraholic
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,207
Just....?
I must agree, DGP's blends are better with age. Though, I've had some amazing ones right off the truck.
It's fun to hear the theories. Anecdotal evidence makes me believe aging Connecticut wrappers makes them taste like a sour fart and lose flavor. I've had a box of Lot 23s for a year now as yardwork gars, and they keep getting better and better until I'm sad to lose the last 3 or 4.