much better worded than my own...this is what i'm talking about.
Viaje Satori
- Thread starter KPP
- Start date
Just to stir the hornets nest even more, and b/c I think it's a valid point.....
Nothing Viaje has made, at least IMO, has been as bad as the Tat Tubos (Black worse than the Red...and by quite a bit), or the Drac...which I hear are smoking better now. And don't get me wrong, I've got at least as many Tat's in my Vino as I do Viajes, so I love em both.
The imitation thing, whether 100% true or not, happens in business all the time. Big deal. Coke comes out with Vanilla, or Lime flavored chit....and Pepsi folllows suit (and there are way more examples out there). Who cares if there's another brand doing it......as long as they are doing it well.
Nothing Viaje has made, at least IMO, has been as bad as the Tat Tubos (Black worse than the Red...and by quite a bit), or the Drac...which I hear are smoking better now. And don't get me wrong, I've got at least as many Tat's in my Vino as I do Viajes, so I love em both.
The imitation thing, whether 100% true or not, happens in business all the time. Big deal. Coke comes out with Vanilla, or Lime flavored chit....and Pepsi folllows suit (and there are way more examples out there). Who cares if there's another brand doing it......as long as they are doing it well.
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Yeah, I'm getting pretty sick of all the limited releases too. I liked the regular Viaje line, but I haven't had much of a chance to smoke very many of them as there are too many new things out there for me to try and too many not-so-new things that I want to smoke. I snapped up some Holiday Blends, Exclusivos and traded for some Skull & Bones, but have managed to resist the rest. However, if they are going to be releasing them every year, I'm a little more tempted to pick up this OR.
Have to agree on the S&B being a power house with little flavor. I'd much rather have a T110. Still hoping the S&B will develop more flavor with time.
Have to agree on the S&B being a power house with little flavor. I'd much rather have a T110. Still hoping the S&B will develop more flavor with time.
I'll agree with this. I was disappointed in the Black Tubos when they first came out but they've improved immensely with time.
Good discussion on this thread so far. Hopefully it doesn't get locked. :frownno:
whodeeni
the Cigar "Gangsta" ;0(
You've noticed that too?:nodlaugh:
hmm good point, but i think fine cigars and sugar water are very things! and sure, its not the first time a company has copied another company.
The issue is that for the most part, aside from the actual cigar itself, people on this forum also value quality, integrity, tradition, and honesty when evaluating a cigar brand. don't get me wrong, Viaje makes good smokes. But how are they setting themselves apart? what is driving their business? is it a passion for cigars? or the urge to follow the latest trends and ride the wave to profitability?
Interesting points all.
As far as Viaje not having an identity, I think they do have one - it's a boutique cigar company in the purest form.
There is amazing tobacco out there that cannot be used due to the quantity available. It's nice having the option to try things in small batches. It's almost as if the consumers are testing out proto blends with the manufacturer.
Viaje isn't getting rich on making these super-small LE batches. I think they're made to foster buzz in the core brands and to have fun experimenting with new stuff. I couldn't stand the Summerfests or the TNT's, but I'm glad he's trying because that also got us the jars, s&bs and the DEs.
As far as Viaje not having an identity, I think they do have one - it's a boutique cigar company in the purest form.
There is amazing tobacco out there that cannot be used due to the quantity available. It's nice having the option to try things in small batches. It's almost as if the consumers are testing out proto blends with the manufacturer.
Viaje isn't getting rich on making these super-small LE batches. I think they're made to foster buzz in the core brands and to have fun experimenting with new stuff. I couldn't stand the Summerfests or the TNT's, but I'm glad he's trying because that also got us the jars, s&bs and the DEs.
Can't speak to the former of your comment, but I can the latter. I've said this before, and I'll say it again....
whether it's sugar water, candy bars, or cigars...
It ain't show"friends".......it's show"business".
It's nice when the passion coincides with the money for certain, but I've never met or spoke with Andre, so I don't know his stance on the "passion" part of it....but doesn't seem like he's got problems moving product. People (myself included) are frustrated with the internal conflict of "to buy/not to buy"....I truly HATE that part about this hobby. Anything you can grab on to to convince yourself NOT to buy, people will do it. Hell, I do it (i.e. packaging sucks, not my size, too many LE's, don't like that wrapper, no bands etc. etc.). It's a fickle bitch indeed!!! :rofl:
These are good points. Still, I won't find myself chasing all the LE's from Viaje if it's already been done by someone else.
and yes Pete does imitate Habanos... and he's very explicit about it. but we forgive him because he is giving us, the american cigar smoker, something that JFK took away back in 1962!
I don't think Viaje has been copying ideas for cigars from Pete, I just think that they saw the success he had with his limited releases and decided to take them to the nth degree.
What, in this world, hasn't been done 1000 times before?
What, in this world, hasn't been done 1000 times before?
Do you really believe Pete's cigars taste the same as Cuban Cigars?
I like Tats as well and Pete makes many great cigars not all do it for me but that's not the issue. Comparing Tats to Cuban Cigars is ridiculous. To borrow a term from the wine industry the Teroir is completely different. The terroir as Pete knows from his wine collecting in different areas have different minerals etc. in the soil which impart different flavors.
Why not say Pete makes great cigars as does Habanos and let each stand on their own merits rather than comparing them as if they are the same. I prefer to look at the cigars as good cigars from different places just like I would with wine from France, Italy, or California.
Pete didn't invent marketing or cigars, but anyone who doubts he started a craze is blind...yes there is a formula for the method Pete is using, and yes in both cases money is a factor for someone to continue doing what they love...but, what Pete has done in the past five years is being followed to a t by viaje...call it brand identity crisis, call it copycatting, but viaje is making cigars in such a way that we all can agree is more focused on frequent limited runs than producing a seriously solid line...the boutique excuse can be used, but pdr may be a better example of a boutique cigar company in an ideal sense.
BrooksW
BoM June '09
Look this has all been said before, but I don't understand why people get upset when a cigar manufacturer releases MORE and different blends? I like to sample as many cigars as I can, and the more blends there are, the better, imho...
The Small Batch stuff serves (at least) two specific purposes:
~It allows manufacturers to produce a cigar that they may not have the tobacco to fill a whole line (which is a plus for US, the smokers)
~It gets the manufacturers name out, from a marketing perspective
Do you really want to go back to the days when there were only 2 lines from every manufacturer?
I say bring on the LEs...it only gives us more to choose from...
~brooks
The Small Batch stuff serves (at least) two specific purposes:
~It allows manufacturers to produce a cigar that they may not have the tobacco to fill a whole line (which is a plus for US, the smokers)
~It gets the manufacturers name out, from a marketing perspective
Do you really want to go back to the days when there were only 2 lines from every manufacturer?
I say bring on the LEs...it only gives us more to choose from...
~brooks
It's just depends on WHO is the one releasing them Brooks, at least as far as I can tell. It's no secret this is a predominantly Tat-friendly board, and understandably so....Pete posts here, and knows a lot of the Brothers...and has traveled/smoked with many of them etc.
I agree with your comment here, and to an extent, Ben said it in his post above that....Pete started a "craze". It's part of why emotion is so involved I think with what people are smoking....and whether it's defending Pete/the brand, or just an overall disdain for something different (Viaje), who knows? :dunno: But I'll continue to smoke them BOTH, and enjoy them both for what they are: JUST cigars
eace:.
BrooksW
BoM June '09
But that is just it, Pete did no such thing as "Start a Craze"...Ever heard of Opus X? How about VSG ER (Sold only with the 2001 Prometheus Ashton humidors, 100 cigars per humidor, 200 humidors ever made. These are Ashton VSGs with Opus X rosado wrappers in 2001)? Oliva Masterblends? Litto Gomez Small Batch No. 1? All came BEFORE pete was even in business with Tatuaje...And the list could go on and on...(and that does not event take into account the Cuban cigar LEs)...
Look, Tatuaje and Vaije are releasing quite a few Small Batch blends at the moment (of course, so is every other cigar maker, for the show, but I won't even get into that), but to say that Pete (or Viaje) "started the craze" of LE cigars is just downright incorrect.
~brooks