Didn't Pay Your $75 - Sorry, No Fire Dept For You

[Fox]

. . .snip. . .

Yes, the guy should have paid his $75.00. They should have put out the fire and charged the guy a premium. Let him make payments on the premium. Hit his credit report if he did not pay. Whatever - what kind of poor excuse of human beings stand there and let this happen. These is one the most outrageous examples of Government bureaucracy failing the people I have every seen. I am sick to my stomach!!!!

Again, this is not a government bureaucracy. It is a privately funded entity from fees, fund raisers, etc. Such entities have no mechanism for either billing or legal enforcement. You guys who live in areas covered by taxes need to understand that this is NOT a government issue, but is a private enterprise.

Like others, you are making a moral argument for a man who made an incredibly stupid business decision. Regardless of what you would have done, or think others should have done, they had no legal requirement to do so nor are they required to accept your morality. . .period. Furthermore, if they use their resources to help the idiot who did not pay, then someone loses a house at the same time who did pay, we both know exactly what would happen. The fire department and everyone ever connected with it would be sued into oblivion.

If I had to guess I suspect that it is their own lawyers who may have advised them to never put out a fire for someone who did not pay.

 

[Cigar Cowboy]

Your anger at the firefighters here is misguided.

1st, I did blame the bureaucracy. 2nd, someone in charge could have overridden this. Those are the heartless bastards. Not the 99.999% of FireFighters who are heroes as I pointed out.

There were a number of bad decisions made here.

 

[Fox]

1st, I did blame the bureaucracy. 2nd, someone in charge could have overridden this. Those are the heartless bastards. Not the 99.999% of FireFighters who are heroes as I pointed out.

There were a number of bad decisions made here.

What bad decisions? Legally, they may have made the only decision possible. Morally, they may disagree with you. Any bad decisions here are likely your opinion only.

 

[itallushrt]

Wow I just heard they let the family pets die.

OK 99.999.% of firefighters are heroes. These guys are heartless bastards.

Yes, the guy should have paid his $75.00. They should have put out the fire and charged the guy a premium. Let him make payments on the premium. Hit his credit report if he did not pay. Whatever - what kind of poor excuse of human beings stand there and let this happen. These is one the most outrageous examples of Government bureaucracy failing the people I have every seen. I am sick to my stomach!!!!

Well the kicker here is....why didn't the family get the pets out? If all is true that we are hearing then they had more than enough time to get the pets out themselves.

I'm telling ya the more you look into this story the more odd it gets. I seriously would not be surprised if it turns out this was set intentionally.

 

[Greg]

Greg, you have just illustrated a major problem with our country today. You are making an emotional and moral argument for a man who made a very bad life and business decision. By saying there is no excuse for that you are attempting to place your emotional state and moral beliefs upon others and seem to imply that a legislative change is in order for the situation because you dislike the way it played out. . .all because of $75. As the old saying goes: "It is always about whose ox is being gored." We end up with emotion driven legislation all the time because of the desire for risk free lives. Whatever happened to personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions? To paraphrase the old knight from Indiana Jones Last Crusade: "This guy chose. . .poorly." I am not without empathy for the family's loss, but they were stupid, almost beyond belief.

I hear you man, and I mostly agree.

Except, I just think that it's in our culture that firemen are special; it's why boys play with firetrucks, and why they want to become firemen....it's unique.

 

[CraigD]

A great many people move out to rural areas to get away from all the required services and taxes and rules. The trade off is you get a lot of things ala carte - like fire service in some areas. One reason it isn't a tax is that a lot of folks are in areas that fire service wouldn't be able to get to so they really don't want to pay for service they can't use. So, the people that want it help pay for it. If not enough people pay their $75 there won't be ANY fire service nearby even to help save people and this wouldn't even be a story.

In my opinion firefighters save lives because they are heroes, they save stuff because it's their job. In this case the heroes weren't needed because people were safe but nobody paid the wages of the workers to save the stuff... Freedom isn't always pretty.

 

[Fox]

I hear you man, and I mostly agree.

Except, I just think that it's in our culture that firemen are special; it's why boys play with firetrucks, and why they want to become firemen....it's unique.

I agree that in general terms, fire fighters and policemen are special and unique in American culture. They take great risks on behalf of our society and I have tremendous respect for both whether professional or volunteer forces. I really, strongly believe that as it is with so many cases in our society, the decision was based upon legal risk and precedent. Lawyers always seem to turn up at the bottom of the pile. . .:wink:

 

[Fox]

A great many people move out to rural areas to get away from all the required services and taxes and rules. The trade off is you get a lot of things ala carte - like fire service in some areas. One reason it isn't a tax is that a lot of folks are in areas that fire service wouldn't be able to get to so they really don't want to pay for service they can't use. So, the people that want it help pay for it. If not enough people pay their $75 there won't be ANY fire service nearby even to help save people and this wouldn't even be a story.

In my opinion firefighters save lives because they are heroes, they save stuff because it's their job. In this case the heroes weren't needed because people were safe but nobody paid the wages of the workers to save the stuff... Freedom isn't always pretty.

Great post, Craig. I would add that many of these types of communities seek freedom "from the man". They want to make the decisions for themselves and not have some politician or bureaucrat making the decisions with their money. I have been in communities where fire, garbage, water and road maintenance were all done by local, private enterprise. You want Joe the snowplow owner to clear your road? You better be on the "paid" list when winter comes. The people love it and believe it is the best value for their dollar. It is liberty they seek and they find it in such communities.

This is directed to no one in particular, but I suspect many people have not spent a lot of time on the back roads of the west. All of the above are very, very common in the outlying regions of WA, ID, NV, MT, WY, CO, etc. We just took a 3,500 mile road trip in September, much of it way, way out in the proverbial boondocks. We saw a number of towns with ~25 - 50 people and 50 - 100 miles from the nearest "big" town of 1,500 people. BUT, they typically had a fire shed, usually a pole building, and an older, but functional fire truck staffed by volunteers. They are happy to live that way. To them it is about liberty and choice, but I bet most are on the "paid" list.

 

[Greg]

John, you make it hard to argue with you.

 

[Cigar Cowboy]

I guess I am just a different kind of person.

The times I have rescued horses from wildfire areas, I used my truck, my horse trailer, my halters, my lead ropes, my fuel and would do it again 1000 times. We would drop the horses off at a local college and go get another load and another load and another load. They needed alfalfa to feed the horses, so I have brought down truck loads of alfalfa to donate. I have never asked to by reimbursed for any of it. I never asked for a thank you. I never have thought twice about it. In most cases, I never even met any of the horse owners. I am surprised to read what I am reading. I don't care about the policies, politics or the bureaucracy. When someone needs help, I will help them. That is just me.

If there are policies in place that prevented these guys from lifting a finger to help, then change the policies.

 

[smelvis]

I guess I am just a different kind of person.

The times I have rescued horses from wildfire areas, I used my truck, my horse trailer, my halters, my lead ropes, my fuel and would do it again 1000 times. We would drop the horses off at a local college and go get another load and another load and another load. They needed alfalfa to feed the horses, so I have brought down truck loads of alfalfa to donate. I have never asked to by reimbursed for any of it. I never asked for a thank you. I never have thought twice about it. In most cases, I never even met any of the horse owners. I am surprised to read what I am reading. I don't care about the policies, politics or the bureaucracy. When someone needs help, I will help them. That is just me.

If there are policies in place that prevented these guys from lifting a finger to help, then change the policies.

Rather than argue and say what I want to and get people all upset.

I will just agree with this post 100%

Dave

 

[Treinenwj]

Even though I still think the decision to let this house burn, especially with the pets inside, was wrong; I'm curious, how many houses have been saved by firefighters in the last 5 days while we're discussing this one house that didn't get saved?

 

[Chubno]

I have not seen any comments about the law on the books about this. Maybe the firefighters hands are tide because the law says they can not help. I don't think not paying the $75 would stop caring people from putting out a man's fire, which I think our firefighers are caring people, but the law on the books would stop them from helping. If the law says the firefighters can not put the fire out or help then the focus of the problem needs to turns to the law makers. They are the ones who let this man's house burn to the ground.

 

[smelvis]

I have not seen any comments about the law on the books about this. Maybe the firefighters hands are tide because the law says they can not help. I don't think not paying the $75 would stop caring people from putting out a man's fire, which I think our firefighers are caring people, but the law on the books would stop them from helping. If the law says the firefighters can not put the fire out or help then the focus of the problem needs to turns to the law makers. They are the ones who let this man's house burn to the ground.

For sure I know some fire fighters and no way in hell would they let that happen if they had any choice in the matter. It had to be some silly ass city law.

They were probable more pissed than any of us could ever be!!

 

[Greg]

I guess I am just a different kind of person.

The times I have rescued horses from wildfire areas, I used my truck, my horse trailer, my halters, my lead ropes, my fuel and would do it again 1000 times. We would drop the horses off at a local college and go get another load and another load and another load. They needed alfalfa to feed the horses, so I have brought down truck loads of alfalfa to donate. I have never asked to by reimbursed for any of it. I never asked for a thank you. I never have thought twice about it. In most cases, I never even met any of the horse owners. I am surprised to read what I am reading. I don't care about the policies, politics or the bureaucracy. When someone needs help, I will help them. That is just me.

If there are policies in place that prevented these guys from lifting a finger to help, then change the policies.

Great post, Michael.

 

[Cigar Cowboy]

For sure I know some fire fighters and no way in hell would they let that happen if they had any choice in the matter. It had to be some silly ass city law.

They were probable more pissed than any of us could ever be!!

I hope you are right.

 

[smelvis]

I hope you are right.

Me to Brother me too :waving:

 

[Cigar Cowboy]

I must have convinced you all. Not too many replies. Glad to see Greg :seesaw: and I finally agree on something other than cigars and the BOTL (Inside joke for the BOTL that subscribe to the politics thread)

I was so looking forward to a good debate :fencing:

Greg I will still :stickbeat

 

[Fox]

. . .snip. . .I must have convinced you all. Not too many replies. . .snip. . .

. . .snip. . .I was so looking forward to a good debate. . .snip. . .

. . .snip. . .If there are policies in place that prevented these guys from lifting a finger to help, then change the policies. . .snip. . .

No, Michael, it just makes no sense to debate this any further. You and others on this thread simply refuse to accept the reality that this is private enterprise and you want to be able to infringe on their right to handle their business as they see fit. You want your morality forced upon them. Others want lawyers and legislators to get involved. This issue is about liberty in all of its raw ugliness. You either want it or you do not. The guy pays the $75 or you believe that socialism should win out in this case. . .It takes the resources of others to bring about a forced legislative solution. You have to take from someone. As I said, it is all about whose ox is being gored.

 

[Cigar Cowboy]

I can't find anything saying they are a privately owned Fire Dept. Do you have a link for that? I just want to read more about that.

They are on the city website link

This is their Mission Statement:

"The mission of the South Fulton Fire Department is to protect the lives and property of its citizens, and provide good public relations through fire safety education to all businesses and schools."

Did they live up to that? I think they need to change their mission statement.

If they are a privately run Fire Department, did the City let its citizens down by contracting a Fire Contractor who was not looking out for every citizen? Is this the city's fault for a bad contract?

I am the last one to promote socialism (as the brothers in the BOTL Politics Thread know). I am not saying they should have put out the fire for free. Since he did not pay his $75.00, he should be charged with the costs + penalties. If this was a 3rd world country I would understand, but this is America. I am not sure what is wrong here without knowing all the facts, but I do know this should never happen in America.

Even if it is a simple as incorporating the fees for the Fire Department in property taxes and city taxes. As far Fire, Police and Military go, this is the role I want for our government, not running car companies, over regulation and government run healthcare.