The MLB Hall of Hame...

[Greg]

...and Steroids.

I say let them ALL in, testing positive or not. Right now, MLB is leaving it up to the Baseball Writers Association of America (a notoriously snobbish group who refuse to give 100% ballots when there are obvious locks...Ruth, Mantle, Ryan, Bench, Ripken, etc., etc.,.....PETE ROSE!!!! :grin: ) to enter judgment of who did and who didn't use steroids, without proper evidence.

I think it's unfair. Ex: Why isn't Bagwell in?

PS

Pete Rose for Hall of Fame!

 

[Fox]

I have mixed feelings about the steroids issue. Steroids were cheating according to the rules in place. That to me is much worse than gambling in your spare time. I know, both are clearly defined by the MLB, but using a drug to obtain competitive advantage just galls me.

Secondly, baseball is a sport, more than any other, that has relied on historical statistics to compare players from different eras. Steroids skewed the statistics dramatically on the power side of the game. Having seen honest players play, in person, like Aaron, Rose, Clemente, Gibson and Mays, it is hard for me to accept the steroid era as equivalent.

As for Bagwell, I was always a fan of his, but when I look at his statistics, nothing really stands out. Yes, he was a very good player, but there are many like him not in the hall. He was not "dominate", as it were and did not obtain any of the "automatics" for a hitter, like 500 home runs, 3,000 hits, etc.

 

[PLUSH]

Please it has nothing to do with steroids, it has to do with preference. You think anyone is going to keep ARod out? Come on, he even admitted to steroid use, but in the end he will have about every offensive record you could have.

 

[Greg]

As for Bagwell, I was always a fan of his, but when I look at his statistics, nothing really stands out. Yes, he was a very good player, but there are many like him not in the hall. He was not "dominate", as it were and did not obtain any of the "automatics" for a hitter, like 500 home runs, 3,000 hits, etc.

So, should Palmeiro get in...he got 11%.

Bagwell was an MVP, hit 449 HRs, batted .297 and has over 1500 RBI. Plus, his slugging% and on-base% are up there with the Greats, 16th all-time. And he could steal bases and won several Gold Gloves.

I was just using him as an example though, because he was a BIG mofo, but never tested positive for any banned substance. I think it's implied because he only received 41%.

 

[Greg]

Ricky Henderson is in, who's to say he didn't use??

What about Gwynn or Ripken?

Mark McGwire....never tested positive (though he later admitted to) but the voters said no when he first came up for eligibility.

 

[Fox]

All I can say is that it is a great thing for all these guys that Selig is commissioner and not Kenesaw Mountain Landis. . .:nodlaugh:

 

[Pietastervw]

Bagwell was an MVP, hit 449 HRs, batted .297 and has over 1500 RBI. Plus, his slugging% and on-base% are up there with the Greats, 16th all-time. And he could steal bases and won several Gold Gloves.

I was just using him as an example though, because he was a BIG mofo, but never tested positive for any banned substance. I think it's implied because he only received 41%.

and rookie of the year as well on of the greatest hitting first basemen. His snub to me was the worst just because as you said, nothing was proven just implied because of when he played.

 

[Clint]

Please it has nothing to do with steroids, it has to do with preference. You think anyone is going to keep ARod out? Come on, he even admitted to steroid use, but in the end he will have about every offensive record you could have.

Yes...By freakin' CHEATING.

Keep him and any other lazy, demoralized ass who thinks he's above the rules OUT of a place where honor and hard work are rewarded.

Cheaters have no place in the Hall of Fame.

 

[tsimonitis]

My issue with the HoF is a Hall of Famer is a Hall of Famer as soon as he retires. For example Blylevin got in on his 14th ballot, his numbers haven't changed in those fourteen years. If he is a HOFer now he should have been a HoFer then. That's my issue.

Also, there are many other cheaters in the HoF. Whether it be greenies or spitballs.

 

[GoingPostal]

My issue with the HoF is a Hall of Famer is a Hall of Famer as soon as he retires. For example Blylevin got in on his 14th ballot, his numbers haven't changed in those fourteen years. If he is a HOFer now he should have been a HoFer then. That's my issue.

Also, there are many other cheaters in the HoF. Whether it be greenies or spitballs.

also andre dawson was another long time snub. every era has had there cheaters. i say if you let the admitted steriod users in then pete rose and shoeless joe should be let in.

 

[Fox]

also andre dawson was another long time snub. every era has had there cheaters. i say if you let the admitted steriod users in then pete rose and shoeless joe should be let in.

I do not disagree with this. I can remember spit balls, grease balls, emory boards and the Niekro brothers; corked bats, sharpened spikes and a host of other things. I suspect "speed" was the drug of choice for hitters from the late 1950's through the 1970's, but there was no testing then. The above is why I have mixed feelings about steroids. Like it or not it was the next in a long line of cheating methods.

Greg, when it comes to Palmeiro he did everything wrong; took the drugs, lied about it to congress and then got busted by a test. That is pretty slimy, but again, cheating is cheating and I wonder if anyone in sports was ever really clean.

 

[Greg]

Greg, when it comes to Palmeiro he did everything wrong; took the drugs, lied about it to congress and then got busted by a test. That is pretty slimy, but again, cheating is cheating and I wonder if anyone in sports was ever really clean.

That's my point. Ripken, Gwynn and Henderson played in the Steroid Era, so why are they in? Because the writers judged them "clean"?

The BBWAA sent a clear message that they will adjudicate any case of cheating based on rumor or hearsay.

It sets a bad precedent, and I think it's unfair.

 

[Fox]

That's my point. Ripken, Gwynn and Henderson played in the Steroid Era, so why are they in? Because the writers judged them "clean"?

The BBWAA sent a clear message that they will adjudicate any case of cheating based on rumor or hearsay.

It sets a bad precedent, and I think it's unfair.

I agree with this too. The adjudication by journalists is pretty disgusting. It will be very interesting when Bonds comes up, because they all love Barry. But, if you allow Bonds in and exclude Mac, Sammy, Raphael, et al, then you will really begin to take some heat. It will be interesting to see if the BBWAA is willing to take that kind of heat because the whole country will be up in arms at the double standard. The situations with Shoeless Joe and Charlie Hustle are starting to look trivial by comparison.

 

[MU Mike]

[/COLOR]

Cheaters have no place in the Hall of Fame.

It's a little late for that. There are already dozens of cheaters already in the hall.

They should let everyone in who is qualified by their play on the field. It's impossible to know who used and who didn't, and the number who did is probably far greater than we want to know.