Perdomo patriarchs
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I'll leave controversial conclusions up to the manufacturers themselves. I own many Lot 23's and champagnes and none of them exhibit the characteristics that the Patriarchs or Lot 23 Habanos do.
I have no specific axe to grind w/Nick. I own many of his cigars and intend to smoke all of them but the Patriarch or the Lot 23 Habano. I just ordered the Patriarchs and they smell of raisins and are clearly colored w/something. Somehow, u've taken offense about truth in this issue. I'm not your Judas Goat, ChaChi. My cred is the truth about what I've found, and is not measured by a freeking cigar blog site.
I respect your right to be a sheep.
If u don't like my attitude, then get me booted.
So you're trying to say that if a cigar smells like raisins then it's a dyed cigar? I'm a bit lost. If that's one of your deciding factors in whether a cigar is dyed or not, I think you'll end up being surprised.
In any case, like NJ said, it's not necessarily what you're saying, it's how you're saying it. You're attacking good people with what you consider facts. Besides your own theories, do you have any definitive proof of dying from mfgs like Perdomo?
In any case, like NJ said, it's not necessarily what you're saying, it's how you're saying it. You're attacking good people with what you consider facts. Besides your own theories, do you have any definitive proof of dying from mfgs like Perdomo?
If a cigar is "dyed" using the natural oils from the plant in order to achieve stick-to-stick (or box-to-box) consistency, I see no problem with this at all.
It has absolutely no effect on the flavour of the cigar.
And again, I remain puzzled as to why this is in the section of the forum dedicated to Cuban cigars. The Patriarch is from Nicaragua (just like most of Perdomo's cigars).
It has absolutely no effect on the flavour of the cigar.
And again, I remain puzzled as to why this is in the section of the forum dedicated to Cuban cigars. The Patriarch is from Nicaragua (just like most of Perdomo's cigars).
Well why the Hostility? K the cigar may be dyed but that does not mean that it is "flavored" in any way? If you don't like it fine don't buy it! I like RP Edge, i know it's dyed but hey i still enjoy it. Nothing wrong with expressing your opinoin but accusing respected manufactures of "misleading" consumers by adding "flavor"
Proper placement does not matter when your main objective is stirring up a shit storm :bigeyes:
I've cut up all of the cigars noted, and they all have one or more, but mostly all three of the characteristics noted. In the responses, it's clear others know or suspect cigars are dyed/colored/flavored. However, I'm the only one to state what I've found after they've been taken apart. One hallmark of dying is a chalky feel and residue on fingers after holding for a short period of time. One blogger actually suggested taking a little water on a cloth and rubbing the cigar. He found that Rocky Patel's Old World blotted the cloth, as did my Perdomo's Patriarch. It's got all the signs of dye from that perspective, an unusually sweet raisin smell, and a darker foot than the binder behind it. If it quacks...
The new review of Bryan Glynn at cigarobsession.com of the Pinar Del Rio has him stating the 2010 is "dyed". That's coming from him, not me.
I'm not attacking people, but a practice. It's important to note that only one mfr., Drew Estate, bothered to respond at all. U've got to decide for yourself what that implies. If anyone wants to clear the air, then do so. I have Perdomos that I intend to smoke; and ones that I cannot. It does appear that darker cigars, particularly the oscuros, are more prone to dying than not. 'If' any mfr. uses cosmetic dye, then, in my opinion, the boat just left the dock w/regards to whatever else may be going on. The practice is absolutely deceptive, absurd, misleading and certainly false advertising-because there is no truthful disclosure about the product's actual content. Essentially, any cigar that is artificially flavored (w/anything), but not advertised as such, is fundamentally misleading. I allege that this practice is happening. A great example is the CAO Brazilia.
I agree, but that's the Drew response, that they do use natural stain from their usual process. Since nobody else responded, we are left to discern on our own. A responsible mfr. would address it directly, but as w/most issues like this, Americans would rather things look cosmetically perfect than focus on taste. And that's where the real rub is. People will accept a concoction over a real cigar, made w/nature's slight imperfections and variations.
The practice overall is reprehensible.
I am alleging that mfrs. are engaging in deception 'if' they are not disclosing artificial coloring and certainly also if they are flavor-enhancing their products. It's a reprehensible practice that is fundamentally unfair to the consumer and probably qualifies as false advertising/marketing.
U can burnem any way u want to.
I'm stirring up a truth-storm. Unsuspecting consumers are ingesting who-knows-what. Natural tobacco is not that harmful. However, like the cigarette mfrs. did, mixing up a concotion to flavor/color a cigar is sick, because it's wrong w/out disclosing it and it's potentially very unhealty.
I'm paying the bill here, and I'm entitled to tell the truth about what I've found and what I've concluded.
What I know is that no mfr. has responded to the blogger's email questioning this practice, except Drew and I've posted the link to Sava's excellent and frank reply. So u've got one out of the bunch that layed it all out. Like growth hormones in milk or ammonia in cigarettes...u have the right to know.
njstone
BoM January 2010
You're not "stirring up a truth-storm," you're spewing bile. I don't know what your agenda is and I don't care, but not only is your self-righteous crusade being waged poorly (attitude, as has been discussed), but you are just plain wrong on the majority of your points.
I don't know how many times we can say the same thing. DYING and FLAVORING are not the same. The CAO Brazillia is not a flavored cigar. Whether or not the color is augmented I can't say because I don't work in that factory, but your alleged "truths" mean nothing. Even those who do what we'd consider "dying" use natural tobacco juices to do it, as has been stated several times. They are not artificial dyes.
Many non-dyed cigars leave a residue on your fingers or a cloth. Just yesterday I wiped something off my H. Upmann Mag 46 and the napkin was all brown afterwards ... those cigars are not dyed. I've experienced this with many non-dyed cigars.
Furthermore, color variation on the same tobacco leaf is very common. To say that if there is a different color on one side of the leaf vs the other is some kind of conclusive proof is ridiculous. Do us a favor and go outside, find some leaves, and see if they are the exact same on both sides ... I'll give you a hint, they're not. This is the case with almost all leaves, including tobacco.
In order to tell for certian if a particular leaf has been washed/dyed/etc, you'd have to look very closely and know exactly what you're looking for. I do not believe you know what you're looking for.
Based on the fact that you continually state that if a cigar "smells like raisins" then it must have artificial flavors added, I can't honestly take any of your so-called "truths" seriously. Many cigars naturally smell like raisins because that's how some fermented tobacco smells (Opus X, LFD DL, LFD Air Bender, JdN A DC, EPC Short Run, several CCs, and many more).
I don't know how many times we can say the same thing. DYING and FLAVORING are not the same. The CAO Brazillia is not a flavored cigar. Whether or not the color is augmented I can't say because I don't work in that factory, but your alleged "truths" mean nothing. Even those who do what we'd consider "dying" use natural tobacco juices to do it, as has been stated several times. They are not artificial dyes.
Many non-dyed cigars leave a residue on your fingers or a cloth. Just yesterday I wiped something off my H. Upmann Mag 46 and the napkin was all brown afterwards ... those cigars are not dyed. I've experienced this with many non-dyed cigars.
Furthermore, color variation on the same tobacco leaf is very common. To say that if there is a different color on one side of the leaf vs the other is some kind of conclusive proof is ridiculous. Do us a favor and go outside, find some leaves, and see if they are the exact same on both sides ... I'll give you a hint, they're not. This is the case with almost all leaves, including tobacco.
In order to tell for certian if a particular leaf has been washed/dyed/etc, you'd have to look very closely and know exactly what you're looking for. I do not believe you know what you're looking for.
Based on the fact that you continually state that if a cigar "smells like raisins" then it must have artificial flavors added, I can't honestly take any of your so-called "truths" seriously. Many cigars naturally smell like raisins because that's how some fermented tobacco smells (Opus X, LFD DL, LFD Air Bender, JdN A DC, EPC Short Run, several CCs, and many more).
stephen_hannibal
stephen_hannibal
Man... this thread has gotten retarded.
You make some very good points. I have no agenda except the cheesy feeling I get when I think I'm being played. I would not characterize my attitude as righteous in any way. I express my disdain for any mfr. who is in fact using artificial dye and/or any type of flavoring. Some cigars do smell like raisins, but only faintly. Somebody-open up a RP Old World and look at the wrapper on both sides. Jet black on one, brown on the other. It's harder to tell w/the color rubbing off, but in acutality, u don't know either. It could be just the juice stain from a harmless rub just to enhance appearance. I consider that harmless.
The concrete fact is that I've been told by more than one retailer that mfrs. use dyes and mineral oil to enhance the appearance. I'm thinking that's on the sick side and is deceptive, especially since u'r going to ingest some amount of these simple substances that turn into complex compounds once burned. Only Drew replied, and for now, that should tell u a mountain about the practice. It's deceptive and potentially harmful to the consumer.
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