Perdomo patriarchs
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njstone
BoM January 2010
My understanding (based on people who've visited the factory, I have not myself) is that Rocky uses water while rolling the cigars. This leeches out the natural color of the wrappers, and get's the bowl of water used all brown (and the hands of the rollers). Supposedly the point is the keep the wrappers from braking, thereby keeping costs down. But the secondary effect is that it makes the wrappers more uniform in appearance.
I think whether your talking about this type of method or just straight-up dying with tobacco juice, I'm against it. Even though it's using natural tobacco product, I still don't like it and I think many cigar lovers would be with me on this. Leaves aren't supposed to look uniform, they are natural and should look that way. It's the same reason I don't like painted wood ... what's the point? I also don't like that those cigars seem to rub off their color more.
I think the retailer you spoke with is probably correct ... I suspect that most manufacturers are using this practice these days. I know of no cigars from the My Father factory or from Illusione or Liga Privada that do this, but I can't think of any others off hand that I can say for sure don't. Though my philosophy is not to accuse someone of doing something unless I know for sure they are doing it, which in this case I can't say.
I too would like to see this practice stop. But I just disagree with the way you're going about it. A cogent argument and personal testimony of "Why I dislike this" would be excellent, and I think it would be cool of all of us in the blog/forum/review site world would start making more noise about this issue. But to ... forgive me ... rant about it with some glaring misinformation just ruins the argument.
I think whether your talking about this type of method or just straight-up dying with tobacco juice, I'm against it. Even though it's using natural tobacco product, I still don't like it and I think many cigar lovers would be with me on this. Leaves aren't supposed to look uniform, they are natural and should look that way. It's the same reason I don't like painted wood ... what's the point? I also don't like that those cigars seem to rub off their color more.
I think the retailer you spoke with is probably correct ... I suspect that most manufacturers are using this practice these days. I know of no cigars from the My Father factory or from Illusione or Liga Privada that do this, but I can't think of any others off hand that I can say for sure don't. Though my philosophy is not to accuse someone of doing something unless I know for sure they are doing it, which in this case I can't say.
I too would like to see this practice stop. But I just disagree with the way you're going about it. A cogent argument and personal testimony of "Why I dislike this" would be excellent, and I think it would be cool of all of us in the blog/forum/review site world would start making more noise about this issue. But to ... forgive me ... rant about it with some glaring misinformation just ruins the argument.
Docbp87
Smoke Into Oblivion
Correct. This thread is not only silly, it is in the wrong section, by a long way. This section is for reviews of cigars of Cuban origin. Not conjectures about cigar wrapper coloring, some of which may be Habano seed wrappers grown places other than Cuba.
I thought this subject had been covered like a bajillion times already, to great extent, with pretty good input from some guys who definitely know their stuff, because they MAKE cigars with dark wrappers... OP needs a reality check.
If you don't like cigars with wrapper color augmentation, then don't buy them. I think most of us here have some idea of who does and doesn't do this, and what cigars do and don't make use of some shady coloring methods. Topic gets a big fat "MEH" from me.
Deemancpa
Hook'em Horns
+1:blob::blob:
Well, I don't know. My Patriarchs sure do look way too black to be real. They look like Rocky's Honduran Classics.
Wet your finger and rub it on the wrapper a few times in different places.
Clip the foot off and look on the inside of the wrapper. Check the color of the foot and compare to the color of the filler/binder behind it. I've found dyed cigars have a dyed foot, as well. Then smell...raisins/prunes?
Note: my champagnes and Lot 23 Naturals aren't dyed and they will be smoked. I love Nick's products, minus the coloring. And if I'm wrong, he can respond himself here and set us all straight. Until then, if it walks, talks like a duck...
I humbly and sincerely agree with all that u have said. Just note: I have nothing against u whatsoever. I am pzzd because I love Nick's products and after receiving my Patriarchs, I'll probably quite likely smoke them w/out the wrapper. I've had to do this w/my Brazilias. Guess what? The quality of tobacco is so good that they smoke just fine.
As stated, several retailers have even told me things I would have never known about dying. I discovered the RP Old Worlds on my own. I just don't know how any tobacco can be jet black, but I'll concede that it's possible; and from that bowl to stain for cosmetic effect. This seems to be the case almost exclusivel in oscuros, but it can occur in others.
I gave my Casa Magna Oscuro the rub test, and it failed. Is it dyed? I must say yes, however, I cannot know if it's natural or not.
However flawed, I want to warn people about suspect cigars and possibly by doing so, encourage mfrs. to understand it's ok for variations in nature to be included in their production line and, that it's fundamentally immoral and deceptive to use any potentially harmful substances in their products.
Thank you for your comments and criticisms. I accept them w/respect.
The fact is we don't really know. Drew is the only mfr. to openly state they d not dye their cigars, but do use a natural "wash" for uniform color.
'If' a mfr. is dying synthetically, it would be like burning artificual food color, which is known to have carcinogenic issues unburned. Burning artificial or synthetic coloring has serious implications regarding your health. Once burned, any substance becomes something else, or, a complex of usually carcinogenic compounds. A cigarette once burned renders an amazing number of new compounds.
It's up to the manufacturers to respect their customers and I concluded that any one of them who 1)will not reveal their process as "natural", or, 2)stop the process is deceptive and does not deserve and will not get my business or support. Ultimately, if consumers demand disclosure, it will come. I first learned about the accusation offered by another cigar smoker on youtube.com and since then, decided that the practice is not necessary and cloaks nature's intended natural variances.
The post is in the wrong section, big deal, it will get moved eventually by a mod. As for dying the wrappers, we all know manufacturers do it, I personally won't buy a stick that is dyed as I don't want the dye on my lips after smoking a stick. Whether someone else doesn't care that is up to them. I like this thread, it is good knowledge to have when shopping for the next cigar.
This whole dying thing is completly blown out of proportion on this forum, anytime somone gets a little color on their fingers while smoking they start kicking and screaming. Perdomo does not artificially dye cigars.
There is only one cigar I can 100% confirm is artifically dyed, I know so because I have spoken with a manufacturer regarding the cigar. Sorry not going to give out the manufacturers name, but that cigar is the La Gloria Cubana Serie R.
There is only one cigar I can 100% confirm is artifically dyed, I know so because I have spoken with a manufacturer regarding the cigar. Sorry not going to give out the manufacturers name, but that cigar is the La Gloria Cubana Serie R.
I happen to appreciate the quality and effort put into Perdomos. I really like them and believe the line, overall, to be grossly under rated, especially the Lot 23's, Champagnes and many others. I am greatly saddened that I believe that I have run across cigars that are dyed. Until I hear otherwise, the Patriarchs, which are very highly rated, have exhibited all the signs that some sort of dye is being used. To be objective, I've given all of my existing cigars, from an estimated 20 different brands, my test, and the only one I found new that failed the rub test, but passed the others, is the Casa Magna Oscuro. Now, it has no raisin smell, but does rub off. I've smoked one, and it does not taste suspiciouisly sweet, etc.
Like I said, had I not watched that youtube.com vid, I would not have been suspicious of the Perdomo line. I own many different Perdomo products and none have rubbed off except the Lot 23 Habano and the Patriarchs. At this point, because I'm not a scientist and don't have access to testing equipment, I cannot be sure and therefore, it's only an allegation. However, similar allegations have been made years ago suggesting that Perdomo dyes certain cigars.
I agree w/you, however, there's only one way to clear the air. Drew Estates did and so it should be easier to others to do the same. Not only did they clear the air, they gave the average person insight into industry practices
'where' artificial coloring and flavoring is commonly introduced.
As stated many entries ago, a retailer told me that their friends toured the Rocky Patel factory and witnessed a coloring station. Take a look at the Old Worlds. They're absorbing light...they're preposterous!
Thank you for voicing your opinion and encapsulating my argument. This is for u, and those who don't know about the practice, but would avoid it if they knew.
However widespread it is, it is still deception and may introduce carcinogens.
Thany you!
Thank you!
You've just added to the body of information we all can appreciate. It's great to know that and it's great to know one more mfr. is out front about this topic. I'm very glad to know that and I will certainly pick up some of their products.
GOOGLE SEARCH TERM: "Perdomo Cigar Dye"
From another cigar blog:
"Posted 28 November 2006 - 05:56 PM
tigger
Time was that Nick Perdomo was known (in a nasty, joking sort of way) as "El Pintor" (the painter) in some circles. My hazy recollection is that Tabacalera Perdomo claimed that the black crap that was staining people's lips and fingers (including my own. once. never touched one of his maduros again.) wasn't dye, but that there was some special tobacco-based treatment that their maduro leaf underwent. Never seemed like that wrapper was thick enough to be real maduro anyway. I don't think he does it anymore, but I don't know for sure.
Got some black residue on me from a Santa Rosa once, when I bought one in a fit of desperation because it was hard to find anything decent to smoke.
"Thought I heard a jug band playing, 'If you don't, who else will?'"
READ ON:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28228
From another cigar blog:
"Posted 28 November 2006 - 05:56 PM
tigger
Time was that Nick Perdomo was known (in a nasty, joking sort of way) as "El Pintor" (the painter) in some circles. My hazy recollection is that Tabacalera Perdomo claimed that the black crap that was staining people's lips and fingers (including my own. once. never touched one of his maduros again.) wasn't dye, but that there was some special tobacco-based treatment that their maduro leaf underwent. Never seemed like that wrapper was thick enough to be real maduro anyway. I don't think he does it anymore, but I don't know for sure.
Got some black residue on me from a Santa Rosa once, when I bought one in a fit of desperation because it was hard to find anything decent to smoke.
"Thought I heard a jug band playing, 'If you don't, who else will?'"
READ ON:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28228
Quotes From The Dye Blogs
-------------------------
Time was that Nick Perdomo was known (in a nasty, joking sort of way) as "El Pintor" (the painter) in some circles. My hazy recollection is that Tabacalera Perdomo claimed that the black crap that was staining people's lips and fingers (including my own. once. never touched one of his maduros again.) wasn't dye, but that there was some special tobacco-based treatment that their maduro leaf underwent. Never seemed like that wrapper was thick enough to be real maduro anyway. I don't think he does it anymore, but I don't know for sure.
Got some black residue on me from a Santa Rosa once, when I bought one in a fit of desperation because it was hard to find anything decent to smoke.
Only one cigar has made my fingers turn brownish, the Rocky Patel Olde World Reserve. I hope its not a dye job, and if it is, it's a rather tasty dye.
I've had the El Mejor Espresso do that to me, but also a few LGC's, and RP OWR.
The Bohemian line from Victor Sinclair is for sure dyed. I smoked one and not only got dark brown stuff all over my lips but all over my fingers also. I'm never going to spend another penny on those cigars.
I had a Carlos Torano 1959 that burnt my lips black(didn't want to put it out).
Rocky Patel Edge maduros are dyed...they take maduro tobacco, wet it and squeeze the juice all over the other tobacco to make it uniform in color (notice the "perfection"?). Can you imagine the color of the rollers hands at the end of the day!!??
The Padilla made maduro Obsidian that they make for CI stained my fingers, lips, and even the ashtray. It was a really good smoke, but that turned me off. The thought that they could be dyed crossed my mind, but I'm not sure that such a fine manufacturer would stoop to that level.
I've had the Nestor maddie turn my lip and fingers before.
I've smoked a boat load of the Onyx Reserves and I've never had any staining or anything like that. That doesn't mean they aren't dyed, just that I've never seen any evidence of it. I don't know about any of the other in the Onyx line.
The only cigar I've had that's left "skid marks" was a La Gloria Cubana Wavell Maduro. I've had several and only had the one leave anything behind, so I'm not sure what that says.
I wonder if it has any effect on the flavor? Obviously it could be construed (quite accurately in my mind) as a misrepresentation of what the cigar is, but does it have any effect on the taste? I don't know...
The Perdomo La Tradicion rosados were even worse, they turned your hands iron oxide red.....
The Perdomo La Tradicion rosados were even worse, they turned your hands iron oxide red.....
Read for yourself:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28228
-------------------------
Time was that Nick Perdomo was known (in a nasty, joking sort of way) as "El Pintor" (the painter) in some circles. My hazy recollection is that Tabacalera Perdomo claimed that the black crap that was staining people's lips and fingers (including my own. once. never touched one of his maduros again.) wasn't dye, but that there was some special tobacco-based treatment that their maduro leaf underwent. Never seemed like that wrapper was thick enough to be real maduro anyway. I don't think he does it anymore, but I don't know for sure.
Got some black residue on me from a Santa Rosa once, when I bought one in a fit of desperation because it was hard to find anything decent to smoke.
Only one cigar has made my fingers turn brownish, the Rocky Patel Olde World Reserve. I hope its not a dye job, and if it is, it's a rather tasty dye.
I've had the El Mejor Espresso do that to me, but also a few LGC's, and RP OWR.
The Bohemian line from Victor Sinclair is for sure dyed. I smoked one and not only got dark brown stuff all over my lips but all over my fingers also. I'm never going to spend another penny on those cigars.
I had a Carlos Torano 1959 that burnt my lips black(didn't want to put it out).
Rocky Patel Edge maduros are dyed...they take maduro tobacco, wet it and squeeze the juice all over the other tobacco to make it uniform in color (notice the "perfection"?). Can you imagine the color of the rollers hands at the end of the day!!??
The Padilla made maduro Obsidian that they make for CI stained my fingers, lips, and even the ashtray. It was a really good smoke, but that turned me off. The thought that they could be dyed crossed my mind, but I'm not sure that such a fine manufacturer would stoop to that level.
I've had the Nestor maddie turn my lip and fingers before.
I've smoked a boat load of the Onyx Reserves and I've never had any staining or anything like that. That doesn't mean they aren't dyed, just that I've never seen any evidence of it. I don't know about any of the other in the Onyx line.
The only cigar I've had that's left "skid marks" was a La Gloria Cubana Wavell Maduro. I've had several and only had the one leave anything behind, so I'm not sure what that says.
I wonder if it has any effect on the flavor? Obviously it could be construed (quite accurately in my mind) as a misrepresentation of what the cigar is, but does it have any effect on the taste? I don't know...
The Perdomo La Tradicion rosados were even worse, they turned your hands iron oxide red.....
The Perdomo La Tradicion rosados were even worse, they turned your hands iron oxide red.....
Read for yourself:
http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28228
Cuba was the issue, in its way.
Hey, check out these comments. Very interesting:
http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/263021-dyed-wrappers-cigars.html
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