Disarming Law Abiding Citizens

[cartisdm]

Two days ago there was an incident on work property where someone showed up to settle an existing dispute between someone who worked in my building. I don't know the back story but basically she waited for the girl to get off work and get to her car, then jumped her and began beating her with an expandable baton. I broke up the fight and had my large benchmade knife on me just in case there "real trouble", but I was otherwise defenseless. The entire time a security guard stood 12 yards away and watched. Afterwards, I was told guards are forbidden to interject during conflict.

Now, I don't know why that girl came to our lot and beat the other woman in the first place, but that's beside the point. Company policy says no firearms whatsoever (even with a concealed carry permit…even locked in our cars). We have security on staff but the recent incident shows they aren't even allowed to step in for help. I don't get it. I honestly don't get it. How can you take away someone's right to protect themselves, not secure the arms of potential threats, then REFUSE TO HELP THEM. Am I alone here? This should be grounds for a lawsuit it's so outrageous!

I wrote a very detailed letter expressing my concern over the matter and I have had a couple of meetings already with HR and security. This is one issue I'm not going to overlook. If that had been a random attack on me or a loved one and I was stripped of protection by company policy, I would be on the phone with a lawyer right now. Trust me.

 

[Jwrussell]

I wish you the best of luck with this, Daniel, but don't go and lose your job over it, bro! I don't know the law well enough to really say for sure, but as to your last statement, I don't think you'd make it very far with that case. You might be able to make a case that it is their responsibility to provide a safe working area (including the parking lot), but not that they have to allow you to carry a firearm for protection.

First question, did the guard call the cops? If not, did someone? Seems to me that your company, or the company supplying the, ahem, "guards" opens itself up for a law suit if all they did was stand and watch.

Now, to the question. I'm with you in that I HATE the fact that I can't carry or, technically, even have a firearm in my vehicle when on company property. I think it sucks and I think it's a severe over-reaction. That being said, on the flip side, it's not my building. It's not my company. And I do support the rights of the individual(s) who own said company to decide what happens on their property. I wouldn't press a friend who didn't want a firearm in their house to let me keep one on my person when entering their home. Same thing, sort of, here.

By the way, good on you for stepping up and helping that woman out. :thumbsup:

 

[dpricenator]

Yep, a security guard's job in most cases is to observe and report.

now on to the next issue. Make your point, but not enemies.

 

[cartisdm]

I wish you the best of luck with this, Daniel, but don't go and lose your job over it, bro! I don't know the law well enough to really say for sure, but as to your last statement, I don't think you'd make it very far with that case. You might be able to make a case that it is their responsibility to provide a safe working area (including the parking lot), but not that they have to allow you to carry a firearm for protection.

No worries on this. I was extremely professional in every sense of the word. I just want to make sure incidents like this get brought to the attention of those in charge. Often department heads have no clue what goes on under them! The senate is currently reviewing a bill to count our cars are private property in NC thus allowing concealed carry on company property. Until then, I'd never do anything to violate company policy. If I lose my job I can't afford to buy more guns, duh!

First question, did the guard call the cops? If not, did someone? Seems to me that your company, or the company supplying the, ahem, "guards" opens itself up for a law suit if all they did was stand and watch.

Nope. Neither did he chase the girl as she took off in her car to get license plate information. Neither did he get medical attention for the victim even when I demanded him to while I ran after the car (tag number is permanently stuck in my head now)

Now, to the question. I'm with you in that I HATE the fact that I can't carry or, technically, even have a firearm in my vehicle when on company property. I think it sucks and I think it's a severe over-reaction. That being said, on the flip side, it's not my building. It's not my company. And I do support the rights of the individual(s) who own said company to decide what happens on their property. I wouldn't press a friend who didn't want a firearm in their house to let me keep one on my person when entering their home. Same thing, sort of, here.

I never heard it approached this way, but it has given me some food for thought

 

[Jfire]

Most security guards are not taught BLS. (basic life support) Examining, Vitals, Treating and Extended care etc. Many are however taught CPR. Also a few states (although not many) are not protected by good Samaritan laws. Which the security guard might not be considered already being employed on the grounds of where the incident occurred. It was probably in his best interest to not treat the pt (employee). Calling 911 calmly is another story. I still think it's great you are concerned and stepped in to help a person in need.

 

[Starz26]

Kudos to you for stepping in, glad all worked out.

We have the same situation here in Ohio. I would also caution you when you speak with hr and to not make a big wave. The same minds that made the policy may not like having an employee who is known to have a cc permit and asking questions.

I think in Ohio they just recently changed the crime of having the gun in your car while on posted property to a simple trespass so you cannot loose your license and the owner has to report it so that is good.

Let us know how it works out as your situation is one of my biggest fears......

 

[cartisdm]

Just to clear any thoughts, had I currently been carrying a handgun, I still wouldn't have drawn it out for that particular situation. Even though the girl had a baton, she was still not more than 120lbs. Worst case scenario I could've taken off running. My number one priority was to stop the attack. Thankfully by running up and threatening her, she was scared of me (hehe). Words and approach of a situation can handle pretty much anything, but there's always a chance things go south...

 

[cvm4]

So the "security guard" gets paid to just stand around? :dunno:

 

[thebayratt]

My company doesn't allow guns in our vehicles....

But in the state of MS you can have a gun in your vehicle (unless a convicted fellon). They know I have a pistol in my truck and I am not affraid to tell them, that their rules can not overide a state law.

So the "security guard" gets paid to just stand around? :dunno:

Basically, same at my company, we had them and they couldn't stop a shoplifter... the company realized they were useless after a few months

Yep, a security guard's job in most cases is to observe and report.

Pretty much a standard for any third party "security" company.

 

[NCost]

The whole gun in the car issue came to a head in a few states. By companies doing that they are dictating to you that you can't carry on public roads from home to work, not allowing you to protect yourself along your route.

It's been changed and in Ohio a company does not have the right any longer to dictate what you can have in your vehicle if you're a licensed carrier. But as I've always said, concealed means concealed, what they don't know doesn't hurt them. Leave it in your car and don't talk about it and who will ever know besides you?

 

[cartisdm]

The whole gun in the car issue came to a head in a few states. By companies doing that they are dictating to you that you can't carry on public roads from home to work, not allowing you to protect yourself along your route.

It's been changed and in Ohio a company does not have the right any longer to dictate what you can have in your vehicle if you're a licensed carrier. But as I've always said, concealed means concealed, what they don't know doesn't hurt them. Leave it in your car and don't talk about it and who will ever know besides you?

I'll be taking my concealed course July 9th so I can't speak from personal experience, but I can't imagine myself carrying in places that forbid it unless by total accident or just running in and out of a store for a second. I know it's "concealed" but you always run the risk. My job isn't something I can risk. People loooove to talk about stuff - even more so, they love to LIE about stuff. All it takes is a few rumors that your packing heat at work and they'll have reason to start asking questions.

Hopefully though, the bill will be pass before this December that will include concealed carry for NC in:
- restaurants that serve alcohol (not bars)
- state parks
- in your car on company property

 

[Jwrussell]

My company doesn't allow guns in our vehicles....

But in the state of MS you can have a gun in your vehicle (unless a convicted fellon). They know I have a pistol in my truck and I am not affraid to tell them, that their rules can not overide a state law.

I suppose it depends on how the laws are written, but just so no one gets their but in a sling, it doesn't matter in most places whether the law says you can legally have a gun in your car or not. If you park your car on company property and the the company rules say no guns on company property, State law don't mean sh**.


ETA: Obviously there are some laws percolating and in place in some places that override the above. If there is a specific law that states an employer can not tell you that you can't have a firearm in your car on company property, that is obviously different than what I'm talking about. :thumbsup: