are cigars a good investment?
- Thread starter GuyMcBeerdrinker
- Start date
to those naysayers.........there are some of us that speak from experience, not speculation.
I have been collecting for a long time now, and have reaped some of the rewards from my efforts.
Just take a look at the next Christies auction. Notice what "regular" boxes of cigars with just 10 years of age are selling for. For example, a box of PSD4's from '94 sells for around $1200 bucks!
This is not to mention the rare and discontinued stuff. The 1492 Humidor sold for $1500 bucks when it came out. It now retails for around $8 to 10k when you can find them.
The same goes with the 1994 Humidor.
For more insane returns, look at the Dunhill Cabinettas, Estupendos, and for that matter any of the Dunhills. A box of robustos sold for under $200 bucks. They now sell for $9K!!!!
LFDC Diademas sold for a bit over $200 bucks a box, they now sell for over $3K a box.
You don't think there are cigars on the market right now that won't command big bucks down the road? Go ahaead, keep thinking that......leaves more for those who have seen the trends and have learned from history........hehehehe
I have been collecting for a long time now, and have reaped some of the rewards from my efforts.
Just take a look at the next Christies auction. Notice what "regular" boxes of cigars with just 10 years of age are selling for. For example, a box of PSD4's from '94 sells for around $1200 bucks!
This is not to mention the rare and discontinued stuff. The 1492 Humidor sold for $1500 bucks when it came out. It now retails for around $8 to 10k when you can find them.
The same goes with the 1994 Humidor.
For more insane returns, look at the Dunhill Cabinettas, Estupendos, and for that matter any of the Dunhills. A box of robustos sold for under $200 bucks. They now sell for $9K!!!!
LFDC Diademas sold for a bit over $200 bucks a box, they now sell for over $3K a box.
You don't think there are cigars on the market right now that won't command big bucks down the road? Go ahaead, keep thinking that......leaves more for those who have seen the trends and have learned from history........hehehehe
Personally I wouldn't call it investment (other than in my own pleasures)...more like a saving plan..
As I prefer mature cigars.. it is cheaper to buy them fresh and let time do its thing then buying them matured... and that is the saving... most of the cigars you see around will be from -97-99 when you looking at matured cigars.. not much of a difference really (unless you struck gold and got a few boxes of the RA corona or the like that now is very attractive on the market)....
so in short.. you can save money on buying cigars and ageing them... not much of an investment in general though.. you really need to know what your doing with documents etc before it is paying off.. and it takes too long to gain the average value.. shares over the same lenth of time probably have a better growth and equal amount of risk as with the cigars (beetles, not ageing gracefully.. not being popular when ready etc)..
As I prefer mature cigars.. it is cheaper to buy them fresh and let time do its thing then buying them matured... and that is the saving... most of the cigars you see around will be from -97-99 when you looking at matured cigars.. not much of a difference really (unless you struck gold and got a few boxes of the RA corona or the like that now is very attractive on the market)....
so in short.. you can save money on buying cigars and ageing them... not much of an investment in general though.. you really need to know what your doing with documents etc before it is paying off.. and it takes too long to gain the average value.. shares over the same lenth of time probably have a better growth and equal amount of risk as with the cigars (beetles, not ageing gracefully.. not being popular when ready etc)..
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing it. I just beleive it can be hit or miss, no guarantees. For those who want to invest in cigars for profit I say more power to you, and good luck.
Just out of curiousity Bruce, what sort of returns have you personally reaped, and what did you have to do to prove the provenance? If it is as easy and profitable as you say I may have to revisit the idea.
Just out of curiousity Bruce, what sort of returns have you personally reaped, and what did you have to do to prove the provenance? If it is as easy and profitable as you say I may have to revisit the idea.
The provenance has been based on my reputation.....my word. As far as the returns, I am not going to answer that directly.
But here are a few examples of more recent occurances to make a point.
RA Coronas in Cabs. These were extremenly rare during the boom, and commanded excellent prices. They were recently re-release bring the prices back down to earth. Aficionados started to re-discover this cigar, and these started to disappear off retailers shelves. They sold for just under $300 a cab. Now that they are being discontinued, they have now doubled in price just in the past year, and cannot be found anywhere.
LCG Sabrosos is another example. Now selling for around a 100% mark up from what they normally sold for since going on the discontinued list. This too in just the past year. How many other investments have a 100% return in one year?
Do I invest in cigars? Well yes and no. It just happens that most of my collection has appreciated in value dramatically over the years. It also helps that I have been doing this for years, and have developed many friends and network extensively. However, that being said, I am currently buying boxes of cigars that have been discontinued.....cigars that have been scarce and rare during the boom, cigars that are made in small quantities to begin with, and cigars that have that "classic havana flavor".....and are classics in their own right. I am storing these for the decades, to enjoy myself over the years, and to sell a few off to keep on financing my hobby.
But here are a few examples of more recent occurances to make a point.
RA Coronas in Cabs. These were extremenly rare during the boom, and commanded excellent prices. They were recently re-release bring the prices back down to earth. Aficionados started to re-discover this cigar, and these started to disappear off retailers shelves. They sold for just under $300 a cab. Now that they are being discontinued, they have now doubled in price just in the past year, and cannot be found anywhere.
LCG Sabrosos is another example. Now selling for around a 100% mark up from what they normally sold for since going on the discontinued list. This too in just the past year. How many other investments have a 100% return in one year?
Do I invest in cigars? Well yes and no. It just happens that most of my collection has appreciated in value dramatically over the years. It also helps that I have been doing this for years, and have developed many friends and network extensively. However, that being said, I am currently buying boxes of cigars that have been discontinued.....cigars that have been scarce and rare during the boom, cigars that are made in small quantities to begin with, and cigars that have that "classic havana flavor".....and are classics in their own right. I am storing these for the decades, to enjoy myself over the years, and to sell a few off to keep on financing my hobby.
Bruce, for those of us who's reputation is not as well established, but are interestd in investing in cigars, what would you recommend to establish and prove the provenance of their cigars?
Also, how does one go about getting their cigars promoted into an auction without an established reputation in the business?
Also, how does one go about getting their cigars promoted into an auction without an established reputation in the business?
Fonsecakid
Fonsecakid
I guess most of us have thought the idea about buying cigars now, that you can age, and then sell to get more cigars. I have anyway, maybe getting two cabs/boxes (or three or four or more) and then selling one or two for money so you can buy two or four new ones of the same vitola. Think about it, Monte 2... Boli CG:s ... Esplendidos ... etc No BIG money there though. For that you have to find todays Cabinettas etc, and that´s a more tricky road to take.
kctaxman
...not postpadding...
Cigar smoking is a hobby for me, not an investment.
I know people make a lot of money selling aged cigars but why would anyone who is not a retailer sell the cigars if they are really that great and worth smoking? To make money.....
No thanks.
I know people make a lot of money selling aged cigars but why would anyone who is not a retailer sell the cigars if they are really that great and worth smoking? To make money.....
No thanks.
Just a hobby for me as well, I don't think I could ever sell a cigar that think are great cigars for money. I would much rather either burn then all myself, or share them with others that would appreciate them as much as I do.
Besides I don't have the will power not to light them up when I feal like it.
Besides I don't have the will power not to light them up when I feal like it.
Ill stick my 2 $ in here are they a good investment some damm sure are. There are many people that would rather buy an aged box for 1000 1500 are 2000. Dont want to wait 10 or 15 years to smoke a great cigar is 50 100 200 to much for a cigar I think not. Those that have not smoke one will say hell no but thoses of us that smoke them on a regular bases will rave about them. Just a view from the peanut gallery..
In my 17 years of smoking cigars I have to say like most investments it depends on how early you get in. If for example you had bought Cisco in the early 90's your return would have exceeded 1000%. If you bought in 1999 you would be down 80% today. The same is true for cigars. If you had bought, like I did 4 boxes of Cabinettas in 1989 at $300 a box and were able to today sell them for $6500 a box out of auction then you have made a great investment. If you paid $4000 for a box of Bolivar Gold Medals last year and now they are being reintroduced, although limitedly, for $160 Euros, which will certainly hurt auction prices, then you've made a bad choice.
Like with any investment patience is key. I have been buying the ELs from Cohiba with the intention of smoking a box and keeping a box for 8-10 years. I think that they, if not re-introduced as a regular production cigar, present the best opportunity for appreciation. However, don't buy the Piramides because I think they will one day become a regular production cigar. Also, any cigar that is considered the marquee of a certain line will probably appreciate 50%-150% over a decade because so much is given to their aged characteristics and of course inflation.
Like with any investment the best time to buy is when no one wants them. Picking that time is key. I mainly read and listen to many forums because I want to know when interest is declining not improving unlike I believe it is today. Then I'll buy..cheap.
Like with any investment patience is key. I have been buying the ELs from Cohiba with the intention of smoking a box and keeping a box for 8-10 years. I think that they, if not re-introduced as a regular production cigar, present the best opportunity for appreciation. However, don't buy the Piramides because I think they will one day become a regular production cigar. Also, any cigar that is considered the marquee of a certain line will probably appreciate 50%-150% over a decade because so much is given to their aged characteristics and of course inflation.
Like with any investment the best time to buy is when no one wants them. Picking that time is key. I mainly read and listen to many forums because I want to know when interest is declining not improving unlike I believe it is today. Then I'll buy..cheap.
g.gekko makes some excellent points.. IMHO, there are far better things to invest in to get a better ROI.. Cigars are inherently a very high risk investment, and one would need a very big nest egg so they would be able to afford "a loss" if the conditions were so.
Christofer
Helluva Habano Herfer
...or you could just smoke them!DocK said:
Chris