owensaz
Pallabra. (Word.)
Spoken like a guy with a degree in IT lol
Are Cuban cigars really the best?
- Thread starter Cigar Cowboy
- Start date
Yes. Yes it is
Ok, so I just joined the forum and read this whole thread. Now, my basis is that I have smoked cigars, infrequently, for years. Now it is becoming an obsession. What I read here is that there are two significant camps; "CC only" vs. "I-can-smoke-them-all". There really aren't many who say that they don't like CC at all. I started with a few NC's and I suspect that I have had some fake Cubans (and, really, who among us wouldn't want to be Cuban...). I could not tell the difference, but only because a) I didn't know what a good cigar was supposed to taste like, b) I was normally hammered, or c) I was too intent on posing at the time. Fast forward to today, and I am experimenting to find out what tastes good to me. I have not had a real CC, and suspect that I won't until I get offshore. But the over-riding question that I have for all of you is this: Does the palate evolve, or does one merely accept more and different tastes? I ask because it seems that there is a significant taste difference between the two types of cigars, and it may be just a preference of individual taste buds rather than palate growth that drives that.
I love broccoli. But it took me a long time before I appreciated the taste of lima beans. I am curious if it is the same way with tobacco types. Is the CC considered by most to be a better quality tobacco, or just a different tasting tobacco? Does one "grow" into smoking CC? Does migrating to one mean that a palate has evolved in the way that someone drinks coffee and migrates to espresso? Thoughts?
I love broccoli. But it took me a long time before I appreciated the taste of lima beans. I am curious if it is the same way with tobacco types. Is the CC considered by most to be a better quality tobacco, or just a different tasting tobacco? Does one "grow" into smoking CC? Does migrating to one mean that a palate has evolved in the way that someone drinks coffee and migrates to espresso? Thoughts?
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icehog3
Outlaw Hockey Biker
Very candid and thought out post.
For me, my flavors evolved with time. When I first started smoking good cigars (after years of Black and Milds), I preferred the strong, in your face flavors that I found in Nicaraguan and Dominican cigars. I was gifted a few Cubans and bought some fivers over time, and smoked both Cuban and non Cuban somewhat equally.
The biggest change for me came when I learned to "nose smoke".....snome call it "snorking", some say it's a retrohale...but I found an abundance of flavors and nuances that I hadn't really experienced before. Over time, I came to enjoy the complexities and flavors I found in Cuban cigars with some age on them more and more. Over time, I have come to prefer this over the majority of NCs I smoke, so for me I would say my palate definitely "evolved" over time. But I understand that this is my preference, and while a great many of my BOTL friends share this preference, many others still prefer the strength and flavors on cigars from other part of the world, and that's a good thing. Hence the mantra "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke".
And though I prefer Cubans at this point, it doesn't mean that I don't know that there are scores of excellent non Cuban cigars out there, and many I still enjoy for a change of pace. An analogy might be that I ride a Harley, but I still know that the Japanese and Germans, for instance, build some wonderful motorcycles, and in some respects, a superior machine. I can appreciate the Kawasakis, the Yamahas, the BMWs, and respect that some of my friends prefer to ride those. And we can ride together and enjoy the ride, together and separately.
The same with cigars...while you may gravitate to what suits your current tastes, you can understand that there are many great cigars out there from many places, and not react negatively to those who gravitate mainy to those.
For me, my flavors evolved with time. When I first started smoking good cigars (after years of Black and Milds), I preferred the strong, in your face flavors that I found in Nicaraguan and Dominican cigars. I was gifted a few Cubans and bought some fivers over time, and smoked both Cuban and non Cuban somewhat equally.
The biggest change for me came when I learned to "nose smoke".....snome call it "snorking", some say it's a retrohale...but I found an abundance of flavors and nuances that I hadn't really experienced before. Over time, I came to enjoy the complexities and flavors I found in Cuban cigars with some age on them more and more. Over time, I have come to prefer this over the majority of NCs I smoke, so for me I would say my palate definitely "evolved" over time. But I understand that this is my preference, and while a great many of my BOTL friends share this preference, many others still prefer the strength and flavors on cigars from other part of the world, and that's a good thing. Hence the mantra "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke".
And though I prefer Cubans at this point, it doesn't mean that I don't know that there are scores of excellent non Cuban cigars out there, and many I still enjoy for a change of pace. An analogy might be that I ride a Harley, but I still know that the Japanese and Germans, for instance, build some wonderful motorcycles, and in some respects, a superior machine. I can appreciate the Kawasakis, the Yamahas, the BMWs, and respect that some of my friends prefer to ride those. And we can ride together and enjoy the ride, together and separately.
The same with cigars...while you may gravitate to what suits your current tastes, you can understand that there are many great cigars out there from many places, and not react negatively to those who gravitate mainy to those.
Great response, thanks very much. I watched a video recently regarding how to smoke a cigar, so your point about nose smoking makes a lot of sense.
I appreciate the subtleties and strong points of sports cars other than the ones that I own, so I get that. That was a great parallel that you used.
"Evolved" may not have been the best choice of words on my part; I might have used the words "grown to include".
I have enjoyed many of the NC that I have recently smoked, and I hope to be able to source CC's in the near future. I'll post up what I find to be true for me.
best
I appreciate the subtleties and strong points of sports cars other than the ones that I own, so I get that. That was a great parallel that you used.
"Evolved" may not have been the best choice of words on my part; I might have used the words "grown to include".
I have enjoyed many of the NC that I have recently smoked, and I hope to be able to source CC's in the near future. I'll post up what I find to be true for me.
best
I began smoking earlier this year, so bear in mind this may come across as quintessentially 'noob'. I've found that I'll reach for a CC when I'm smoking alone. That way I can devote my time to the complexity they offer. I find I reach for NC's if I'm smoking with a friend/s where their more 'assertive' characteristics shine and I don't have to concentrate so much. But at this point, I truly do feel like I love them both, and hope it never changes.
Just sold off my last 7 NC's... don't even have a NC in my humidor anymore.
njstone
BoM January 2010
Hey Reelman, loved your post! I think Icehog answered your questions really well. Yes, your palate will probably get better over time, and yes it will also "change" over time, in the sense that you might like something now, not care for it in 2-years, and another few years later like it again. Just like with foods of beverages, some people can get into patters, habits, even rutts--then they find something new and go crazy for it for a while, only to come back to more variety later. That happened to me when I "discovered" smokes from Tatuaje and the Garcias. I still love them, but I smoke a larger variety now.
Cubans are more interesting a study in that the "forbidden fruit" aspect is VERY appealing to the average American. I know a lot of guys who will give a Cuban cigar the benefit of the doubt, in a way, and rate it more highly because, well, it's a Cuban! That's not to say I think they are all hype, far from it, I love many of them. But some people are enamoured with the idea of a Cuban, just as some are enamoured with the idea of a limited edition stick, etc etc.
Then there are other factors--like how many cigars you smoke. Cubans have a pretty clean finish (I mean post cigar) which in my experience allows me to more readily enjoy more cigars in that same day. Also, Cubans tend to be mild to medium when judged by NC standards, which makes them more accessible for people who don't like strong cigars.
Cubans are more interesting a study in that the "forbidden fruit" aspect is VERY appealing to the average American. I know a lot of guys who will give a Cuban cigar the benefit of the doubt, in a way, and rate it more highly because, well, it's a Cuban! That's not to say I think they are all hype, far from it, I love many of them. But some people are enamoured with the idea of a Cuban, just as some are enamoured with the idea of a limited edition stick, etc etc.
Then there are other factors--like how many cigars you smoke. Cubans have a pretty clean finish (I mean post cigar) which in my experience allows me to more readily enjoy more cigars in that same day. Also, Cubans tend to be mild to medium when judged by NC standards, which makes them more accessible for people who don't like strong cigars.
I would disagree that "snobbery" is something that CC smokers own completely. I would also suggest that putting palate differences down to "snobbery" is disingenuous at the very least and reverse snobbery at its best.
There are many that smoke CC because of the cool factor. Or the expense factor of a resort-bought Cohiba at $60.00 a stick for a one-off party. That is not snobbery; its a combination of a lack of education, a lack of inner strength and too much money.
Palates are different. There are some that have the ability to pick out every note of a cigar. I am not one of them, but I do prefer the taste/strength ratio of a CC. I could tell the difference with my first real one. I, at least, find a pretty significant difference (and my palate is a toddler at this point). My strong belief is that the NC brands are now catering to a growing niche of smokers that are younger and want blast-off strength with big pepper. Great. Not me. It doesn't make me a snob. I just prefer a different taste. There are a few really good, well made NC sticks that work for me-the rest all taste the same.
If CC's were music, they would be, to me, Electric Light Orchestra, which was a tapestry of sound and feeling, woven within itself. NC's would be more along the lines of Sid Vicious, who was loud and ballsy. Both have their place. And we all have a preference.
And none of us are wrong.
There are many that smoke CC because of the cool factor. Or the expense factor of a resort-bought Cohiba at $60.00 a stick for a one-off party. That is not snobbery; its a combination of a lack of education, a lack of inner strength and too much money.
Palates are different. There are some that have the ability to pick out every note of a cigar. I am not one of them, but I do prefer the taste/strength ratio of a CC. I could tell the difference with my first real one. I, at least, find a pretty significant difference (and my palate is a toddler at this point). My strong belief is that the NC brands are now catering to a growing niche of smokers that are younger and want blast-off strength with big pepper. Great. Not me. It doesn't make me a snob. I just prefer a different taste. There are a few really good, well made NC sticks that work for me-the rest all taste the same.
If CC's were music, they would be, to me, Electric Light Orchestra, which was a tapestry of sound and feeling, woven within itself. NC's would be more along the lines of Sid Vicious, who was loud and ballsy. Both have their place. And we all have a preference.
And none of us are wrong.
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Vanilla and coke or better yet vanilla cokeChocolate for sure and Pepsi.
Fully prepared to say they both have equal value in my humi, which they do.... but then I remember a great CC that blew me away (HdM Especial)... and then a great NC that blew me away (TAA 2011).... Im gonna have to agree with the consensus on this one... but Coke is so much better :grin:
Cigary43
Just Another Ashhole
This is what it's all about and this should be the "poster child" of answers for all of us...cigars are personal and so is their taste and we can't "taste" for others...it's their own personal experience with whatever cigar they like whether it be a Guantamera or an Opus...we need to share our opinions with the reality that....they are just our opinions nothing more..nothing less. Let each person come to their own conclusion of what it is they like w/o everybody telling them what it is they should like....that just never made sense to me to tell somebody what they should like.
FYI
Just for purposes of reference regarding the cost of the average CC, I am placing an order that comes out to an average of $6.65 per stick for the following:
Vintage:
FONSECA*Cosacos NISA TLP02
HOYO DE MONTERREY*Coronas RSE JUL02
HOYO DE MONTERREY*Des Dieux PFS DIC03
SAINT LUIS REY*Série A cab 50 REC JUN01
New
Montecristo No. 2
Mixed Sampler of 10
Partagas Serie D No. 4
Mixed Sampler-Tubos, etc.
Mixed Corona/Gorda Vintage Sampler of 10
Montecristo No. 4
Vegas Robaina Unicos
Romeo No 1. Tubos
Por Larranaga Panatela
Hoyo de Monterrey - Epicure No.1
BOLIVAR*Petit Coronas
JUAN LOPEZ*Petit Coronas
MONTECRISTO*Regata
RAFAEL GONZALEZ*Petit Coronas
H. UPMANN*Magnum 46 Tubos
H. UPMANN*Magnum 50 Tubos
HOYO DE MONTERREY*Epicure Especiales Tubos
RAMON ALLONES*Specially Selected
SAN CRISTOBAL DE LA HABANA*La Punta
VEGAS ROBAINA*Clásicos
These are not special prices, and its not as though these are low-end dog rockets. I'm just working through the Cerberus trio of vendors. I might be able to get this quality for the same money with NC. I only smoke 4 brands of NC, and they are not cheap.
Just thought many would like to see what can be purchased for a reasonable average cost for CC.
.........and a tip of the cap to Knickerbocker!
Just for purposes of reference regarding the cost of the average CC, I am placing an order that comes out to an average of $6.65 per stick for the following:
Vintage:
FONSECA*Cosacos NISA TLP02
HOYO DE MONTERREY*Coronas RSE JUL02
HOYO DE MONTERREY*Des Dieux PFS DIC03
SAINT LUIS REY*Série A cab 50 REC JUN01
New
Montecristo No. 2
Mixed Sampler of 10
Partagas Serie D No. 4
Mixed Sampler-Tubos, etc.
Mixed Corona/Gorda Vintage Sampler of 10
Montecristo No. 4
Vegas Robaina Unicos
Romeo No 1. Tubos
Por Larranaga Panatela
Hoyo de Monterrey - Epicure No.1
BOLIVAR*Petit Coronas
JUAN LOPEZ*Petit Coronas
MONTECRISTO*Regata
RAFAEL GONZALEZ*Petit Coronas
H. UPMANN*Magnum 46 Tubos
H. UPMANN*Magnum 50 Tubos
HOYO DE MONTERREY*Epicure Especiales Tubos
RAMON ALLONES*Specially Selected
SAN CRISTOBAL DE LA HABANA*La Punta
VEGAS ROBAINA*Clásicos
These are not special prices, and its not as though these are low-end dog rockets. I'm just working through the Cerberus trio of vendors. I might be able to get this quality for the same money with NC. I only smoke 4 brands of NC, and they are not cheap.
Just thought many would like to see what can be purchased for a reasonable average cost for CC.
.........and a tip of the cap to Knickerbocker!
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My two cents, but probably not even worth that:
If I have no input and you are going to just hand me a cigar, but I have the option of CC or NC, I will probably choose the CC every time. From legit CC's I am seldom completely disappointed to where I just want to put the cigar down.
With NC's there are a lot that are just strength for strength's sake, that are just a punch in the mouth and leave with that nasty after taste. But I think there are a lot of great NC's out there too. If I have my choice of which NC or which CC, it gets really tricky. I would probably be about 50/50 on my choice. I like them both for very different reasons. I love a CC in the morning with coffee. But in the evening after a heavy meal I love a good tatuaje or similar.
So I guess what I am saying is as a whole, any blind CC vs any blind NC, I give the edge to the CC. However if it's NC's I think are great vs CC's I like as well, I'm 50/50. It just depends on the situation and what I'm in the mood for.
*another interesting thought as I was reading through everything; Why is it with things like scotch people (generally) start out with the lighter bodied, often with a splash of water and/or lots of ice, and slowly progress to the stronger (like Islay's) with no to very little ice. But it seems with cigars people start out with the strong and later trend towards the lighter. I have wondered this in regards to my own experience as well.
If I have no input and you are going to just hand me a cigar, but I have the option of CC or NC, I will probably choose the CC every time. From legit CC's I am seldom completely disappointed to where I just want to put the cigar down.
With NC's there are a lot that are just strength for strength's sake, that are just a punch in the mouth and leave with that nasty after taste. But I think there are a lot of great NC's out there too. If I have my choice of which NC or which CC, it gets really tricky. I would probably be about 50/50 on my choice. I like them both for very different reasons. I love a CC in the morning with coffee. But in the evening after a heavy meal I love a good tatuaje or similar.
So I guess what I am saying is as a whole, any blind CC vs any blind NC, I give the edge to the CC. However if it's NC's I think are great vs CC's I like as well, I'm 50/50. It just depends on the situation and what I'm in the mood for.
*another interesting thought as I was reading through everything; Why is it with things like scotch people (generally) start out with the lighter bodied, often with a splash of water and/or lots of ice, and slowly progress to the stronger (like Islay's) with no to very little ice. But it seems with cigars people start out with the strong and later trend towards the lighter. I have wondered this in regards to my own experience as well.
First I want to give props for keeping this a civil discussion. I've seen other places where threads like this turn into awful arguments and personal attacks. Makes me glad I joined here! I voted that I like both. Saying that, I'm definitely a CC noob as I have over 500 NCs and 50 CCs tops. I do think that CCs tend to be given the benefit of the doubt. It also seems that people are more willing to age CCs and if they gave NCs the same benefit, I think they'd be surprised. I was fortunate this summer to find a box of DPG JJ from 2007 and my goodness what good 5 years did to that cigar! It's no longer a pepper bomb and it's now a smooth and refined cigar (and I say that as someone who really likes fresh JJs). Either way I find much to enjoy about both and hope that never changes!
^ this^
TimEye
Tim
Agreed! I smoked almost nothing but CC's all spring and summer, and was pleasantly surprised when I started pulling NC's out of my humidor that had been there for a year! I would still say that I like CC's better, but will continue to enjoy NC's. I really liked the DPG JJ and Blue when fresh, and would love to hold onto some for five years. The "Pepper Blast" was one of the things I found objectionable about NC's.
Good post!
Had to go with enjoying both because I smoked cigars for a good while before having a cc that I was 100% sure was real and I have to say the experience is just different not necessarily better. There are a couple ccs I really like and that holds true for some Hondurans and Nicaraguans as well that have a flavor and realm that cc's don't and aren't made to go into and vice versa. So not better. Just different
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