Cigar Molds Thread

[keithjjones]

A couple of the molds I have are CNC'd from blocks of high density polyethylene plastic. It would seem that it would be more agreeable to machining. Wood has a tendency to get a little 'fuzzy' at times depending on the grain.

Yes. When I looked into the plastic it looked a bit pricey so I moved on. I can 3d print molds, which uses about the same amount of plastic, but is cheaper.

 

[Dominican56]

A couple of the molds I have are CNC'd from blocks of high density polyethylene plastic. It would seem that it would be more agreeable to machining. Wood has a tendency to get a little 'fuzzy' at times depending on the grain.

How does the cost compare to wood?

 

[keithjjones]

For CNC? Much more. The sheets I saw on Amazon of the materials people referenced were like $20-$30 or more, and they didn't have the volume I need. That's as far as I looked. For 3d printing a cost of a plastic spool is $30-$40. For a 4 stick mold is probably use less than half of it, with no mistakes. It's rare to be without mistakes though. I'm happy to look at and try any plastic you all may know about that is reasonable in cost. I'm by far an expert in that field. I just look on Amazon or home Depot for stuff. Both suit me because I don't have a ton of extra time looking for supplies.

 

[keithjjones]

For CNC? Much more. The sheets I saw on Amazon of the materials people referenced were like $20-$30 or more, and they didn't have the volume I need. That's as far as I looked. For 3d printing a cost of a plastic spool is $30-$40. For a 4 stick mold is probably use less than half of it, with no mistakes. It's rare to be without mistakes though. I'm happy to look at and try any plastic you all may know about that is reasonable in cost. I'm by far an expert in that field. I just look on Amazon or home Depot for stuff. Both suit me because I don't have a ton of extra time looking for supplies.

I meant for CNC plastics, I'm all set with 3d printing plastic knowledge and suppliers.

 

[derektherockstar]

I meant for CNC plastics, I'm all set with 3d printing plastic knowledge and suppliers.

From your knowledge as well isn't plastic more susceptible to mold for what we do too than wood? I'm not remotely in your guys league but I thought the Cubans used wood for that reason from what I've seen. It could also be the tech but I thought it was moisture.

 

[keithjjones]

From your knowledge as well isn't plastic more susceptible to mold for what we do too than wood? I'm not remotely in your guys league but I thought the Cubans used wood for that reason from what I've seen. It could also be the tech but I thought it was moisture.

They are almost exclusively abs plastic now. I'd think wood could mold in the same conditions.

 

[blisscigarco]

From your knowledge as well isn't plastic more susceptible to mold for what we do too than wood? I'm not remotely in your guys league but I thought the Cubans used wood for that reason from what I've seen. It could also be the tech but I thought it was moisture.

The reasons the industry went from wood to plastic are that wood warps and cracks, and wood molds are much larger for reasons of structural rigidity requirements. Larger = requires more space for storage and requires larger presses. So when the tech came along to make functional plastic molds on the cheap, the "man" (company owners, factory bosses, etc.) replaced their crapped-out wood molds with plastic ones. And then the wood mold manufacturers bailed on wood and went to plastic, or just quit the biz outright.

The longtime rollers themselves prefer wood and if asked typically will tell you so. Perhaps because they already used wood for 40 years before someone said, "Yo, that's over, bro."

As for questions of "wicking off moisture," as a benefit of wood, sounds good, but I'll call BS on it, because one doesn't typically leave wet leaf inside a mold for days-on-end. Yeah for sure some amateurs use wet binder/filler and then leave it in there for days or weeks to turn blue and fuzzy; but that is an abnormal situation.

As for me, it's wood, baby.

 

[keithjjones]

The reasons the industry went from wood to plastic are that wood warps and cracks, and wood molds are much larger for reasons of structural rigidity requirements. Larger = requires more space for storage and requires larger presses. So when the tech came along to make functional plastic molds on the cheap, the "man" (company owners, factory bosses, etc.) replaced their crapped-out wood molds with plastic ones. And then the wood mold manufacturers bailed on wood and went to plastic, or just quit the biz outright.

The longtime rollers themselves prefer wood and if asked typically will tell you so. Perhaps because they already used wood for 40 years before someone said, "Yo, that's over, bro."

As for questions of "wicking off moisture," as a benefit of wood, sounds good, but I'll call BS on it, because one doesn't typically leave wet leaf inside a mold for days-on-end. Yeah for sure some amateurs use wet binder/filler and then leave it in there for days or weeks to turn blue and fuzzy; but that is an abnormal situation.

As for me, it's wood, baby.

Yeah after trying these wood molds, I'm hooked too.

 

[keithjjones]

I created a thread specifically for the mold creation process, as a hobby. I'm happy to talk about 3d printing and CNC stuff there. I'll add more to it as I have time and depending on the activity there. We can keep this thread about general molds talk. I don't want to spam everyone here every time I do something new, so feel free to subscribe there if that's what you are into. Here's the link: http://www.botl.org/index.php?threads/90922/

 

[Gdaddy]

How does the cost compare to wood?

Here is a cost calculator for 'cut to size' HDPE blank sheet.
I'm guessing at the size of a 4 cigar mold like the one shown.

For example a bottom sheet 6" x 8" 1" thick is $21
Top sheet 6" x 8" 1/2" thick is $18
Shipping.... $17

https://www.interstateplastics.com/Hdpe-Black-Sheet-HDPBE~~SH.php?sku=HDPBE++SH&vid=20170825014822-4p&dim2=6&dim3=8&thickness=1.000&qty=1&recalculate.x=109&recalculate.y=20

 

[keithjjones]

Here is a cost calculator for 'cut to size' HDPE blank sheet.
I'm guessing at the size of a 4 cigar mold like the one shown.

For example a bottom sheet 6" x 8" 1" thick is $21
Top sheet 6" x 8" 1/2" thick is $18
Shipping.... $17

https://www.interstateplastics.com/Hdpe-Black-Sheet-HDPBE~~SH.php?sku=HDPBE++SH&vid=20170825014822-4p&dim2=6&dim3=8&thickness=1.000&qty=1&recalculate.x=109&recalculate.y=20

Nice. I've cut the molds (4 sticks) from: bottom 1.5"x7.25x7.25 and the top .75x7.25x9.25. I have to have extra material on the top since there is nowhere for the clamps on the stock without extra material. The clamps hold it down. I cut off the extra material before I sand it up.

 

[Gdaddy]

Nice. I've cut the molds (4 sticks) from: bottom 1.5"x7.25x7.25 and the top .75x7.25x9.25. I have to have extra material on the top since there is nowhere for the clamps on the stock without extra material. The clamps hold it down. I cut off the extra material before I sand it up.

To save the cost of using costly thicker material could you use the 1/2" HDPE top thickness and attach a flat board to it. You need to drill alignment holes anyway in the top... could you possibly attach via bolts or screws a flat board for the needed thickness. Once machined remove the wooden board.

 

[keithjjones]

To save the cost of using costly thicker material could you use the 1/2" HDPE top thickness and attach a flat board to it. You need to drill alignment holes anyway in the top... could you possibly attach via bolts or screws a flat board for the needed thickness. Once machined remove the wooden board.

Yes, there are probably ways to attach it. But at $56 a test, that can get costly. I can print it in plastic for less than that.
The top piece needs to be 1/2 * largest ring size (or just ring size if parejo) + 5mm thick. The bottom piece is 5mm + largest ring size thick.
I don't drill into anything to attach it for CNC'ing. I just use hold down clamps on top of it, and it uses pressure. For the top piece, I usually use 2" of extra wood (1" on the front and 1" on the back, the clamps go onto that... then I cut off the 1" on the front and the 1" on the back when I'm done).

 

[Gdaddy]

This measured 1/2" top with a 1" base. (it has cnc marks when you look closely)

 

[keithjjones]

This measured 1/2" top with a 1" base. (it has cnc marks when you look closely)

View attachment 100595

That sounds about right. 52/64 is almost 21mm. Add 5 mm to that and you have around an inch.

 

[Gdaddy]

How does the cost compare to wood?

Traditionalist like the wood molds but I believe the plastic molds are stronger and more durable. Agree with Bliss that there is no difference in the moisture wicking properties so go with what you like.

Don't go with the inexpensive wooden molds without the upper lip. They aren't as good. The tobacco spills out the sides of them when pressed.

 

[keithjjones]

Traditionalist like the wood molds but I believe the plastic molds are stronger and more durable. Agree with Bliss that there is no difference in the moisture wicking properties so go with what you like.

Don't go with the inexpensive wooden molds without the upper lip. They aren't as good. The tobacco spills out the sides of them when pressed.

Yup, that facet is exactly what I spent many weeks trying to figure out in the cad program. You want the mold to basically "push down" on the stick into the bottom part. Anything that comes together on the sides can mess up your sticks. That's how my v1 molds back around April worked and why I designed them differently for v2. 3d printing allowed me to play around with that and get it right, at a relatively lower cost than CNC materials.

I hadn't thought about it until now, but I could probably cut a box press too. I know I could make a square mold if I needed to. The possibilities are endless when you are in total control of the design and machinery.

 

[Gdaddy]

Yes, there are probably ways to attach it. But at $56 a test, that can get costly. I can print it in plastic for less than that.
The top piece needs to be 1/2 * largest ring size (or just ring size if parejo) + 5mm thick. The bottom piece is 5mm + largest ring size thick.
I don't drill into anything to attach it for CNC'ing. I just use hold down clamps on top of it, and it uses pressure. For the top piece, I usually use 2" of extra wood (1" on the front and 1" on the back, the clamps go onto that... then I cut off the 1" on the front and the 1" on the back when I'm done).

A good quality HDPE mold runs around $100. Your molds are custom made. They are special. Especially these unique shapes you're doing. I don't know anywhere else you could get a custom mold made to order one at a time!! People should expect to pay more without question.

Just a thought...if someone wanted one out of HDPE maybe let them buy the material and send it to you. They should certainly expect to pay more for this type of custom build and personalized shape. Charge them a labor fee to run the machine.

Think about this...people go out and buy a tuck cutter for hundreds of dollars and it really does nothing for them. Your molds would set them apart by leaps and bounds and would be a far more useful and unique item.

 

[keithjjones]

A good quality HDPE mold runs around $100. Your molds are custom made. They are special. Especially these unique shapes you're doing. I don't know anywhere else you could get a custom mold made to order one at a time!! People should expect to pay more without question.

Just a thought...if someone wanted one out of HDPE maybe let them buy the material and send it to you. They should certainly expect to pay more for this type of custom build and personalized shape. Charge them a labor fee to run the machine.

Think about this...people go out and buy a tuck cutter for hundreds of dollars and it really does nothing for them. Your molds would set them apart by leaps and bounds and would be a far more useful and unique item.

Yeah I'd be happy to cut that for you all. Just remember I'm not a professional and I do make mistakes, or the machine does. I went through a whole lot of wood with mess ups, and if something happens during a cut I can't stop it until it is too late. I measure 100 times and cut once, but sometimes the machine can go nuts if a part in it fails, like a $2 fan cooling the stepper motor drivers. This isn't a notable income source for me, I got that, plus grad school, it's just a hobby and I'll no way cover the costs I've put into equipment. The spindle I just repaired was $150 by itself, for example. If I can make my cigar expenses a little lower, then I'm happy. I even agreed to cut one for a person that has a cigar stash I don't have, but I'd probably buy at some point and really wanted to try. The hardest part for me is the time sourcing materials, the set-up time, and the post processing time (sanding, etc). I can cad like nobody's business when I get snippets of time.

The largest length I can cut is around 15". There are ways to cut longer by moving the part, but that's really involved and I've never tried that before. The width should cover at least 7". I'm not sure on the height, but less than 2" is probably safe.

 

[keithjjones]

Yeah I'd be happy to cut that for you all. Just remember I'm not a professional and I do make mistakes, or the machine does. I went through a whole lot of wood with mess ups, and if something happens during a cut I can't stop it until it is too late. I measure 100 times and cut once, but sometimes the machine can go nuts if a part in it fails, like a $2 fan cooling the stepper motor drivers. This isn't a notable income source for me, I got that, plus grad school, it's just a hobby and I'll no way cover the costs I've put into equipment. The spindle I just repaired was $150 by itself, for example. If I can make my cigar expenses a little lower, then I'm happy. I even agreed to cut one for a person that has a cigar stash I don't have, but I'd probably buy at some point and really wanted to try. The hardest part for me is the time sourcing materials, the set-up time, and the post processing time (sanding, etc). I can cad like nobody's business when I get snippets of time.

The largest length I can cut is around 15". There are ways to cut longer by moving the part, but that's really involved and I've never tried that before. The width should cover at least 7". I'm not sure on the height, but less than 2" is probably safe.

And just like that, I had a power outage during a cut. Stock wasted.