jmatkins
BoM January 08
http://wbztv.com/national/chrysler.close.plants.2.889762.html
Man this is a way to slow down production!
Man this is a way to slow down production!
Crysler closing plants
- Thread starter jmatkins
- Start date
They all slowing down and closing plants. Migth be a good way to do it with the holidays, although are the employees forced to use vacation time or are they being paid>
openendstraight
Grand Corona
I believe under the current union contracts, they get 95% pay when laid off.
jmatkins
BoM January 08
Yep, you are correct.
This is not a good thing for the Union folks. Getting paid for this downtime is very short term. You have an insolvent company with an inventory of cars people are not buying. I'm afraid that this is a first step towards Chapter 11 and a dissolution of all contracts (Union included)
njstone
BoM January 2010
And it's not just the plant workers, or support workers, or the people who run shops and resturants to support them. But everyone makes parts for these guys now are out of work too.
Here in Dayton, all of the biggest plants in town have been closing for the last 3 years now, one after another. At this point, by the end of 2009 this town could have a 30% unemployment rate.
And I get to try to sell a house here...yea, that's awesome.
Here in Dayton, all of the biggest plants in town have been closing for the last 3 years now, one after another. At this point, by the end of 2009 this town could have a 30% unemployment rate.
And I get to try to sell a house here...yea, that's awesome.
architeuthis
I see what you're doing!!
Oh DEAR! I would hope that all the people working at Chrysler would close their PANTS! <G>
GM is doing the same starting next Wednesday. As far as pay, the company only pays about 45% of the net and the State (unemployment) picks up about 40% totaling 85% of the net. This is contract lay-off pay and will start about the 5th of January. The 24th through the 5th is contractual holiday pay which is 8hr a day.
njstone
BoM January 2010
I don't mean to offend anyone here, but I sort think that the Unions are part of the problem here. Do the line workers really deserve as much as $75/hour? How many years of college does it take to get that job? Is it that dangerous?
Now don't get me wrong, if they can make that much, then good for them. But it seems to me that the reason that non-American manufacturers can make so much more profit is at least partially due to the fact that they don't pay their laborers as much as they pay their doctors.
Now don't get me wrong, if they can make that much, then good for them. But it seems to me that the reason that non-American manufacturers can make so much more profit is at least partially due to the fact that they don't pay their laborers as much as they pay their doctors.
Now I don't mean to offend anyone here either but, where in the hell did you ever get the idea line workers made $75 an hour? Wait, let me guess.....the news???
This is the kind of shit that once it gets started, it becomes truth. The different kinds of bullshit that goes around about autoworkers is just that.....bullshit.
Since I've been doing this alot lately, let me give you a brief low-down on autoworkers and some myths related to them.
Autoworkers make $75 an hour...here's how they get there.
Wages + benefits + retirees pensions and their benefits + surviving spouses and their benefits / active workers= $75 an hour. There are tens of thousands of retired autoworkers out there. These are commonly referred to legacy costs and are the cost of being in business 100 years. The retirees pensions are paid out of a separately funded account, contributed to by Union and company and do not reflect costs paid on a monthly basis so that part of the so called wage calculation is bogus. Yes, there are bridge benefits paid in health care costs till a retiree reaches the age of 65. Then they must apply for Medicare.
The simple truth is active worker wages and benefits account for less than 10% of the manufactures costs. We could work for free and it wouldnt supply credit for people to buy cars right now. Its a cash-flow problem and if you dont have cash coming in, you cant pay your vendors.
OK, soap box put away.
eace: While I'm not a "Union" guy, those are well-known facts in my neck of the woods. Kinda funny how all of the talking heads (CNBC, FBN, Bloom...) shouting againest any type of funded help for the automotives conveniently omit the ACTUAL compensatory breakdown. But let's just give Wall Street blank, unregulated checks, and let them go on their merry way!! :angerFU: please don't get me started!! :hammersma :waving:
architeuthis
I see what you're doing!!
Well just to be clear on this... Seems some folks in this thread know quite a lot about the automotive industry. Would one of you give a ballpark figure of what an average union automotive assembly-line worker does earn per hour? Just a rough ballpark average dollar figure. I confess that I have no idea what this might be, but if you know please let me know also.
It's not really a big secret on autoworkers wages since the different classifications are public knowledge and all American companies work under the same contract. With the few exceptions of shift premiums, team leader pay and certain shift crossover allowances, the labor contract of 2006 calls for $28.71 per hour. If you discount about a $1.27 COLA that was folded into the 2002 agreement, these were the same wages from 1998. A one time signing agreement payment was awarded in place of a raise on the 2006 contact. This payment, after tax, worked out to about .1275 an hour over four years. I only call attention to this because there are those that say we receive bonus and this payment would be the only compensation we receive that comes anywhere close to being defined as a bonus.
Now the benefits packages are always called excessive when this discussion starts and while health insurance coverages are confusing and often quite complex, I'll attempt to give a few examples of the costs and co-pays of our packages.
The other day I was talking to a friend of mine who has owned an Insurance Company of 25 or so years. They mainly sell health-care packages to school districts, municipalities and such. I was showing him some of my coverages and he was amazed over what he perceived they were as to the actual deductibles. He said..."Hell, I thought you guys had total coverage. I sell better plans than this!"
Any family, no matter what the size, gets 5 office visits a year for only the 50% co-pay then after that it's full price. Major stuff is mostly covered but almost all the minor stuff is not. I'll give you an example. Me and the 2 kids went to Dentist for cleanings and 1 kid had a cavity. After insurance, $593.
My point in this is what you hear and what is reality is usually two different things. Putting all this on the auto-worker is easy. For the last 12 years the UAW seems to be the only participant that has taken a proactive approach to scaling back costs and giving concessions. The list goes on an on. Now the UAW is treated like they're the total cause and it's time to belly up the the bar and sell our Rolex.
Now the benefits packages are always called excessive when this discussion starts and while health insurance coverages are confusing and often quite complex, I'll attempt to give a few examples of the costs and co-pays of our packages.
The other day I was talking to a friend of mine who has owned an Insurance Company of 25 or so years. They mainly sell health-care packages to school districts, municipalities and such. I was showing him some of my coverages and he was amazed over what he perceived they were as to the actual deductibles. He said..."Hell, I thought you guys had total coverage. I sell better plans than this!"
Any family, no matter what the size, gets 5 office visits a year for only the 50% co-pay then after that it's full price. Major stuff is mostly covered but almost all the minor stuff is not. I'll give you an example. Me and the 2 kids went to Dentist for cleanings and 1 kid had a cavity. After insurance, $593.
My point in this is what you hear and what is reality is usually two different things. Putting all this on the auto-worker is easy. For the last 12 years the UAW seems to be the only participant that has taken a proactive approach to scaling back costs and giving concessions. The list goes on an on. Now the UAW is treated like they're the total cause and it's time to belly up the the bar and sell our Rolex.
Jfire
BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
Call my dad in FL. He owned a Union business in Il for 15 yrs. Always bitched about union wages etc. Moved to FL a right to work state. Whilsten dixie for the 1st 5 yrs. Costs are cheap blah blah blah. Called me last weak. Unemployment is @ 38% Asked me if I've been layed of of my Union Fire dept job. No i'm lucky that my area is still pro union, and while I agree dad that all union issues are not equall your son actually got a pay raise again this year. And while the city budget isn't the greatest outlook it is still balanced. Well thats good to hear son because just about everyone I know down here is undercutting each other that its not even worth me bidding on jobs anymore! Are the trades still working around your area? Yeah they are but some guys are on the bench more than they would like to be. Well thats better then these non americans down here that want to work for nothing. Well dad I guess you got what you asked for no Unions!
indyrob
BoM Feb '06 & Sept. '08
If the Big 3 fall, the residual fallout will make us all suffer. Too many people will be affected by this all the way down the supply chain.
I feel the effects and not really directly affected by the Big 3, but with unemployment reaching astronomical heights I can't find a decent job to save my life! I know I was working for the last 6 months, but I wouldn't call it a dream job.
What I fear the most is a lot of people are going to be cut due to the economy and when they do find work, it will be far less than what they were earning. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the median income for middle America is about to change drasticly.
I feel the effects and not really directly affected by the Big 3, but with unemployment reaching astronomical heights I can't find a decent job to save my life! I know I was working for the last 6 months, but I wouldn't call it a dream job.
What I fear the most is a lot of people are going to be cut due to the economy and when they do find work, it will be far less than what they were earning. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the median income for middle America is about to change drasticly.
architeuthis
I see what you're doing!!
Thank you. I found your reply quite informative...
