dealing with kids and their school grades

[jgaeta]

ok, im not sure how many of you guys have kids in school, but i have one in 3rd grade right now. they just got report cards and standardized test results. he did well on both, getting all "good" or "good +" grades, but no "exceptional" grades on his report card. his standardized tests results were "proficient" or "proficient with distinction" (which is level 3/4 on a 4 level system). his report card DID include some notes about not listening in art class, and talking with his friends during class instruction.

he was praised for his good grades and talked to about his not listening issues. but i think his grades and test results are pretty good for an 8 year old kid with lots of friends in his classes. it shows me that he's learning and not falling behind.

this is all well and good, until me and my chick were talking to other parents. they punish their son for not getting "exceptional" grades. they say they were never that good in school, and want their kids to be better than they were. i can't really get behind that thinking. i just think he will eventually get turned off by the whole thing and end up hating school and how his parents deal with it.

anyone else with kids? what are your thoughts? just putting it out there...

 

[uvacom]

I don't think a child should ever be punished for maintaining the status quo, although it shouldn't necessarily earn them any great reward either. It sounds like that's where your son is. If you feel like your child is exceptional in his abilities in any academic area, you should try to find ways to encourage and nurture that. Otherwise, if he's not slipping, don't worry about it. He should definitely be involved in some extracurricular stuff if he isn't already, so you (and he) can find out where he is exceptionally talented.

 

[pfm721]

My parents I think had a pretty good outlook on the whole thing with me. I was an above average student aptitude wise, but an average student grade wise. The deal was if I got straight A's I got a financial reward. If I didn't get straight A's but also received no C's then nothing happened and it was looked at as what I was supposed to do. If I received a C I got grounded until the next report card came out with no C's on it. This was done to provide me with an opportunity to study. For the most part I was bored with school and my substandard grades were the result of not doing my homework.

My parents standards were based on what I was capable of. I was capable of straight A's but wasn't really motivated to get them. The no C's restriction was in place because I should never get a C. If I had been a B/C student and that was all that I was capable of I would have been congratulated on doing the best that I could.

 

[jgaeta]

oh yeah, i hear you there. he's only punished for bad behavior and is rewarded for improving his grades. if there is no improvement, there is no reward. that said, he's slightly spoiled anyway, but hey, you only live once. as far as extracurricular stuff, we try to expose the kids to as much as possible. he's done karate, baseball, and football for the "organized" stuff and goes hiking/fishing/swimming/skiing whenever possible. he's not great at any of them, but we have a great time and he enjoys himself. so i think we're doing an okay job with the parenting thing.

it just kinda makes me think that some parents are pushing too hard for too much out of their kids. then again, sometimes we wonder if we're too easy on him? we always thinking not (and that we're doing an okay job).

i was just curious on other's thoughts on that...

 

[jgaeta]

My parents standards were based on what I was capable of.

i kinda like this idea. i think everyone would like to think they have a kid capable of getting straight A's, but it's just not possible. i will have to keep this in mind as he gets older (and my daughter starts 1st grade next year).

 

[BrandonJ]

As long as you and your wife know that your children are indeed doing their best, and you both give them your full support(resources, tutors, etc.). What else can ya ask? I am sure you're doing awesome!

i kinda like this idea. i think everyone would like to think they have a kid capable of getting straight A's, but it's just not possible. i will have to keep this in mind as he gets older (and my daughter starts 1st grade next year).

 

[tubaman]

As long as you and your wife know that your children are indeed doing their best, and you both give them your full support(resources, tutors, etc.).

I couldn't agree with this statement more. I have two kids, one soon 11 and the other 7, 8 in June. Our older child is truly gifted. She has gotten perfect scores on all of her standardized tests that she has taken so far. I am concerned that when she eventually becomes challenged she will have a problem dealing with it. We give her enrichment outside of the school, plus she is a competitive gymnast and an excellent cello player. She has good study habits, so I think she will be ok. Our younger child is average to above average with her grades. She works very hard for her grades and new concepts do not come easily to her at first, but eventually masters it. There is a difference in her grades to her sisters, but we praise her just as much if not more because she puts forth a tremendous effort. She has chosen different activities from her sister, which we encouraged to eliminate comparisons between the two.

I would never dream of punishing my child for poor grades, unless the kid just is goofing off. But at 8 years old, the parents should serve as a guide at home when the child is studying. My younger daughter does not have good organizational skills, so the first thing we do when we get home from school is sit down and discuss what needs to get done, and how she will do it. I sit with her while she does her work, I don't do it for her, but I sit with her so she has developed a better work habit. I have been able to let her work while I'm starting dinner or cleaning the kitchen. I'm in the same room, but keeping my distance from her. She wants to work in her room, but I won't allow it yet, because she will probably start listening to music (she LOVES singing!!) and not finish her homework. Parents need to work as partners with the teacher to develop good strategies for THEIR OWN child. Most teachers are very receptive to parents that simply want to help their child and not look to place blame somewhere.

This is not a very popular statement, but the bell curve really does exist. Half of the world's population is below average. AND THAT'S OK!!!! Maybe that C in math is the best that kid can achieve!!! We need to remember that not every child is going to be a genius. As long as you try your best, good things will happen.

It don't know if that answered any of your questions, but that's the philosophy I try to follow.

 

[njstone]

When my wife was in grade school she got mostly D's. She didn't learn her alphabet until she was 7 years old! Her parents knew she was intelligent, she just couldn't seem to do well in school. They had her tested, and it turns out she has a learning disability. After some therapy and a TON of work on her part, she started getting As. She has always had to work harder than other students, but she has always done well.

She's now an MD, and the OB/GYN Chief Resident in her program. Many of the veteran doctors tell her that she is one of the most gifted young surgeons they know.

I think the specifics really depends on the child, but there should always be consequences for anything they do in life--positive consequences for doing what they should and negative for not doing so. That is the way life works (often times), and I think that teaching them diligence and faithfulness and integrity is even more important than their reading level or math skills, etc. (though those are obviously important).

Baring a serious learning disability, any student should be capable of a C, most are capable of a B (though you may need to work harder to find out how to help some kids get to that level). Many students are capable of an A if they learn to overcome their individual obstacles.

If you feel your kids are capable of getting As and Bs but they just aren't paying attention/applying themselves/spending time on the work/etc, then I think that ABSOLUTELY punishment is acceptable. It's not about achievement for achievement's sake or comparing yourselves with others, it's about doing your best and being faithful to do what you're asked to do.

If they aren't doing their chores, there needs to be consequences. If they're not doing as well as you KNOW they can in school, there likewise needs to be consequences. If there aren't negative consequences for slacking off, then they will grow up to be slackers--pure and simple.

Had my parents not pushed me to do as well as whey knew I could do, I would have grown up to be a slacker--I have no doubt at all about that.

In my case, when I brought home a B on something, that was a seriously bad thing...not because my parents were tyrants, but because they knew I could get As and if I didn't there was something wrong--and it was my job (with their help) to figure out what the problem was so that I could do better next time.

[I think kids will always say they are doing their best...sometimes they are even being truthful...but that doesn't mean there aren't ways they can learn to do even better. Isn't that the point of school?]

Helping kids work through problems and figure out how to do well despite various issues they may have will teach them even MORE than the work itself.

Again, I"m not saying they all kids should get As. But As and Bs are far more possible than many parents realize I think. As long as the students are really working hard, doing their best, and trying to overcome obstacles to their success, then a B or C can be celebrated just as much as an A.

 

[dpricenator]

That one kid who is getting punished for his good, but not excellent grades is going to be a the top of a clock tower with a rifle one day.

 

[jgaeta]

awesome, thanks for the thoughtful responses guys. always nice to hear opinions on stuff like this. the kids aren't my OWN, but i've been in their lives for ~4 years now and the "parenting" aspect of having kids is so wide open. there are so many ways to deal with things. i appreciate your comments guys.

 

[jgaeta]

That one kid who is getting punished for his good, but not excellent grades is going to be a the top of a clock tower with a rifle one day.

that's exactly what my chick said.

 

[Saully]

Sounds like the two of you are doing a great job, both with the boy and with not getting involved in the other parents' bullshit advice. Not everyone is capable of getting the highest grades, as discussed by the others above. What counts is if your child is doing his best and if the parents are doing the best they can to help him and provide him with additional resources.

There is a wide range of views on rewards/punishment for grades. In my opinion, neither one is a good idea.

 

[njstone]

There is a wide range of views on rewards/punishment for grades. In my opinion, neither one is a good idea.

I have to respectfully disagree there. I think I see your point, but to me it's important to teach kids how the world really works (in degrees and stages, of course). In a job situation, those who do well usually achieve more and those who do poorly are usually "punished" in some way. The same is true in relationships, families, etc. Striving to do well is a good thing and I want to teach my kids that such work is rewarded.

Now, I don't think that monetary success is a goal in itself, nor is climbing a corporate ladder. But in order to fulfill what one is really meant to do in this life, one needs to be faithful to do their best all the time. The proper doors may be closed to you down the line if you didn't apply yourself early on. I personally think that humans have innate needs for positive and negative reinforcement.

Again, I'd never argue for an arbitrary "get A's or you're grounded" philosophy or anything like that. But each child is unique as has unique talents. I believe it's the parent's job to find out what their children are gifted at/interested in/inspired by and give them the encouragement (and resources when possible) to pursue those areas.

For example, if my high-school-aged child was gifted in the area of music and wanted to spend a lot of potential study time practicing, I would probably let them do that even if their grades suffered to some degree. But I would still make them work hard on their classes because colleges need to see good grades, etc. etc.

I want to prepare my children to excel once they leave my house and venture out on their own, and I think part of that is understanding the balance between rewards/punishment and the fact that life is not fair.

 

[Saully]

they punish their son for not getting "exceptional" grades. they say they were never that good in school, and want their kids to be better than they were. i can't really get behind that thinking. i just think he will eventually get turned off by the whole thing and end up hating school and how his parents deal with it.

It looks like the parents are using the kids to make up for their own failed ambitions. That's close to emotional child abuse if you ask me.

Especially in 3rd grade. That's why they don't give them A's, B's and C's at that age. It sounds like your boy making the progress that he should. Have you gone to conferences with the teacher yet? That would be a good way to find out what his academic strengths and weaknesses are, and to verify that he's making expected progress and doesn't need additional help.

 

[njstone]

Parents need to work as partners with the teacher to develop good strategies for THEIR OWN child. Most teachers are very receptive to parents that simply want to help their child and not look to place blame somewhere.
.

I SO agree with that statement! I wish more parents would be proactive in their children's lives and learning. All my friends who are teachers (many) say that their #1 frustration is apathetic parents, who somehow feel that it's the teacher's job to teach the child everything they need to know.

In my view, teachers are like tutors--people who help the child to learn specific subjects better. But my wife and I are responsible for raising and teaching our children. Personally, I think the most important lessons are learned outside of the classroom anyway.

 

[hdroadglide]

too often there is an inordinant amount of emphasis put on GRADES rather than LEARNING!

 

[njstone]

too often there is an inordinant amount of emphasis put on GRADES rather than LEARNING!

Too true. I think maybe it's because they are learning so little in many schools these days.
/sigh

 

[Hendy]

Went through the same thing with my girls. They are 13 & 14 now. I would not sweat it but make them aware that you know about the talking and it needs to stop. I did the same (gently) and now that they are teenagers, they understand and pull A's all year long. Getting pissed at them only makes them mad and you the bad guy. Kids will be kids as they grow. It's our job to give them understanding.

Good luck.

 

[jgaeta]

thanks hendy, and the rest of you guys. and here i thought this would be a dead subject, haha.

a problem i've already had is that the teachers are teaching in a different way than i learned it. i helped my son with a math problem where you had to show your work. he got the answer right but the problem was marked incorrect. a simple email to the teacher for an explanation and now we're on the same page. i think having open lines of communication with the teachers is pretty important. i mean, these people have MORE time with kids on a daily basis than parents do.

 

[Hendy]

Oh yea, the Jacked Up Math. Don't fight it. They are learning it a new way that I cannot comprehend even to this day. I suggest you learn it if you can. Don't change it or your kid will argue with you that "that's not the way Mrs. So and So said. They will be impressed on how quick you are, but it will be like pulling teeth. I have made it the wifes job to absorb the "new math". Good Luck with that.